New 5th wheel, what would you do?

[DieselHP]

I do not know yet what I am going to do but would like everyone's thought on what they would do.

 

We ordered a new 5th wheel (brand does not matter)

The dealer call and told us it is in. Great! lets take a ride and take a look at it. So we did and is just what we wanted.

As we were walking around the unit we see a large scratch in the decal on the nose cone and the molding where the cap meets the sidewall broken. I went up and looked at it and I can also see the metal behind the molding bent. Also I do not see any damage behind the metal but I will not know until it is removed.

I did speak to the manufacturer and they said the dealer can fix it and they will ship him the parts. they also informed me they will note this on the record of the unit and if anything happens they will stand behind it. 

That is all well and good BUT!

We ordered a new unit and agreed on a price for the new unit and I am having a problem in my head buying and paying for a new unit when I am getting a scratch and dent.

I would not prefer to walk away from something we have been working on for a year but it is not a real big deal if we do and just order another one next winter. I wouldn't order one now just because by time we get it the camping season would just about be over.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks

 

[ARGO]

In auto insurance, we dealt a lot with "diminished value". That is the lesser percieved value someone's car has JUST BECAUSE it has an accident on the record, not because of poor repairs. For a start, I'l tell the dealer you want a 10% discount of the *retail*  repair cost toward the purchase price & see what happens. Or, call the mfr & ask when the next one is being built, or one in stock somewhere else.

[DieselHP]

31 minutes ago, ARGO said:

In auto insurance, we dealt a lot with "diminished value". That is the lesser percieved value someone's car has JUST BECAUSE it has an accident on the record, not because of poor repairs. For a start, I'l tell the dealer you want a 10% discount of the *retail*  repair cost toward the purchase price & see what happens. Or, call the mfr & ask when the next one is being built, or one in stock somewhere else.

I agree with you on the "diminished value". and that's my problem with us buying this coach. I'm guesstimating list price on parts and labor is in the $2000 range if you figure list price on parts like most body shops write. 

I think based on the 10% you are saying for $200 off it would be like getting nothing off.

Stock units are out because I had somethings done that was out of the norm for them to do.

[sandsys]

I would ask them what type of discount they are going to give me if I buy this damaged unit. That "if I buy" phrase should get you something reasonable.

Linda Sand

[DieselHP]

1 hour ago, sandsys said:

"if I buy"

Linda Sand

I like that! I will use that

Thabks

[rynosback]

Just tell them that you want it fixed before you pick the unit up.  There is not ONE manufacture that produces a perfect 5th wheel.  PDI should find and correct items before you even see the unit.  The dealer should have PDIedit before you even saw the unit.  Did you put a deposit on it because you said that you made some changes?

[DieselHP]

I made no changes 

I ordered it with the way I wanted it. 

I understand things may be adjusted or hooked up correctly 

but someone hit it. 

Dont know if it was the dealer 

driver who drove it to the dealer or

it was done at the manufacturer 

point is it was hit not let a screw out. 

[Ronbo]

If you order a new vehicle and it arrives damaged, you get a different vehicle. I would expect the same or a significant discount. We paid 60% of list for our new 5th wheel because the next year models were out. I am sure you did nto receive much of a discount since you ordered it. i would tell them after it is fixed i want a 40% discount off the price or they cab order and build you a new unit. 

[Yarome]

From my experience, once you've signed on the dotted line, money has changed hands and you take possession... it's now "your" problem and no longer their priority. Not that they won't back it up, but actually getting the work done in a timely manner and with as few headaches as possible shouldn't be your problem.

 I wouldn't sign-off or take possession until it meets my satisfaction. That's about the last bit of leverage you have. No matter what you may have signed, to date, is invalid if the product was not delievered as promised.

I would also do as others suggested and negotiate a "diminished value" discount but on the purchase price, not as a percentage of the repair bill. In production, imperfections and accidents happen, but it is a sellers responsibility to present a finished, complete and "new" product. After all, that is what you're paying for, is it not?

Present an inferior product... expect an inferior price.

They aren't the strongest structures to begin with so my main concern would be about secondardy damage to the wall and roof framing (busted or bent frame joint, etc.) ... and as ARGO pointed out... it "has" been in an accident.

[Tex Bigfoot]

As others have said "IF you decide to buy it " decide how much of a discount you will accept before you start talking with them . bring in the factory to the discussion . stay calm and be ready to walk.

Above all insist that as the repairs are taking place you will view after all the parts are removed 

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Tex Bigfoot said:

As others have said "IF you decide to buy it "

Most dealers require a deposit when you order an RV that is configured for you. If you don't buy it you will probably lose that payment. 

[ALLOY]

Another option would be to have them throw in or discount upgrades (suspension,  storage trays, batteries, slide toppers,  fan covers)  and/or wholesale discount on any item in the store.

[DesertMiner]

Did you find out how the damage was caused?

[Yarome]

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

If you don't buy it you will probably lose that payment. 

If a seller provides goods or services as contracted and the buyer backs out of the deal of their own accord.. quite possibly. If the dealer fails to provide a unit as contracted then the buyer has no obligation to accept a "substitution" and the dealer has no legal standing to deny a full refund (even if they try and tell you they do). In most states a "non-refundable" deposit is only binding if a seller has made "reasonable" effort within a "reasonable" amount of time to provide goods or services as contracted. What one judge deems "reasonable" might vary, but "non-refundable" is not written in stone under any blanket agreement. The burden is on the seller.

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer, but have had occassion to test these type agreements more than a few times. 😉

[DieselHP]

Call came last night and the parts are in so I am going to watch them take the molding and metal strip off to see if there is damage behind it   

My thought is if there is no damage to the front cap or fiberglass I will wait to see how nice the repair is made. If the job is not done to my liking I will walk away. 

That’s not a big deal. I gave them $1000 on a credit card so if they do not refund it one phone call and that is done. 

I hope that’s not the way this goes but it is what it is. 

If I do take it my thought is some money off and another year of warranty. 

Thaks for the input 

Rick

[SWharton]

If they had repaired the unit before showing it to you and not disclosed that it had been damaged you would be none the wiser.

At this point I would check for underlying damage and how well the repair is made.

[dblr]

Glad to see some progress getting done and hope a good ending will be in the works. A good dealer should make that happen, as everyone always seem to have a story ours was our dealer had picked our brand new 5th wheel up at a campground on our 1st trip with it and while at their dealership hit the garage with it and caused major damage, their way to settle it was order us another unit and traded even. I guess I was lucky and had a good dealer, hope all ends well for you also.

[Kirk W]

On 5/2/2018 at 9:38 PM, Yarome said:

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer,

And you will probably need someone who is. 

There is an old saying that says, "You will catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar."  DieselHP, I would not be very happy if I discovered what you have, I really think that taking an aggressive, threatening approach that some here are recommending you probably will make matters worse. On the other hand, when you take a firm but understanding approach you will often get outstanding results. 

On 5/3/2018 at 4:30 AM, DieselHP said:

My thought is if there is no damage to the front cap or fiberglass I will wait to see how nice the repair is made

 

It sounds like you are taking the reasonable approach and I commend you for doing this. Most dealers are not crooks but just businessmen who try to make a living and keep customers satisfied. It would be very unusual if he does not owe the manufacturer for the RV and have a bill for it, just as you have not paid him. It all probability the accident was not of his making and he is now caught in the middle between his customer and his supplier. He needs a good relationship with you both if he is to be successful. I would not assume that he is going to try and cheat you until there is evidence to indicate that. I would watch the work very closely and let them know that you want it "good as new" and also ask for some allowance for the fact that it was damaged but with the knowledge that the dealer has to work with his manufacturer or suffer the loss. Quite likely the damage was done by the delivery driver and may even have insurance in the mess as well. If you approach as a reasonable customer the dealer has an incentive to keep you that way but when you come on in a fighting stance he has little reason to go beyond the absolute minimum. 

I spent 32 years in customer service for one of the largest companies in the world and from it, I learned a few things about customer service and results. No company is so great that they never have a product issue with one of their customers so such situations are inevitable. The mark of a quality company is not that they never make a mistake, the measure of them is what is done when mistakes happen. 

[DieselHP]

2 hours ago, SWharton said:

If they had repaired the unit before showing it to you and not disclosed that it had been damaged you would be none the wiser.

At this point I would check for underlying damage and how well the repair is made.

True but that is not the case.

[DieselHP]

10 hours ago, DesertMiner said:

Did you find out how the damage was caused?

No we did not

[Yarome]

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

I really think that taking an aggressive, angry approach that some here are recommending

It all probability the accident was not of his making and he is now caught in the middle between his customer and his supplier. He needs a good relationship with you both if he is to be successful.

We must be reading completely different threads. 😁

I have not read "anyone" suggesting to be aggressive, angry or abusive toward the dealer.

Noone has suggested it was the dealers "fault", but ultimately it most certainly "is" his responsibility. The sale agreement is strictly between the buyer and the dealer... not the mfg, not the transport company. Faulty merchandise and damage in transport is commonplace but there is no responsibility for the buyer to accept anything other than what was agreed upon. The dealer quite literally IS the middleman. That is his job. That is his only job and how he makes his money... paid not by the mfg. but by his customers. I believe that is why they call it a customer service occupation. 😉

The dealers relationship with his suppliers is of no concern to a customer and it is wholly unreasonable to expect a customer (who is footing the bill all the way up the chain) to make accomodations in their expectations, or their wallet, if somewhere along the line "someone" fouled up.

You don't have to be a jerk about it, but it's completely reasonable to request, and expect, a reasonable accomodation in the pricing for a unit that was not delivered in new, undamaged, condition. From there the customer has the option to take the savings on the unit (and the risk), allow more time (if they so desire) for the dealer to provide a new unit as agreed (at a reasonable discount or incentive for the delay in order to retain that customers business), or walk away.

All of which can be done in a calm, respectful, but firm manner.

What "is" the dealers fault was not inspecting the unit and making remedy prior to presenting it to his customer. That's ALL on him. If he has to take a bit of a financial hit for his mistake then that is neither the customers, the trasport company nor the mfg.'s fault.

Most good lessons in business come at a cost, but not at the customers expense.

 

[orca]

It sounds to me that the damage is minor and cosmetic but the op needs to see the damage and repair before he makes a decision.  If it was repaired before he saw it he would be none the wiser, and since it is new there would be no public record of the damage so it would not affect the resale. BUT! because he saw the damage he should be able to leverage a better deal from the dealer. However if the op is going to loose sleep worrying about the repair he should walk away and leave that stress at the dealership.

[sandsys]

My "if i buy it" wording was intended to be said in a calm manner. Nothing aggressive about it. Just assertively letting the dealer know I expect him to make good on this damage. If there is no underlying damage and the repairs are done well I would not expect as much of a discount as I would if that didn't happen. But I would still want a little something in either a discount or a free upgrade in some other part for the hassles I went through having to deal with the stress of this incident. This appears to be an honest dealer as he could have just done the repairs while saying nothing about them to the customer so I would not ask for a lot more from him--just a little.

Linda Sand

[RBH]

My guess is that if you end up with this unit and after the first year of the inevitable dozen or so issues you will have with any new RV this one issue will fade to insignificance.

[Kirk W]

On 5/3/2018 at 8:13 AM, Yarome said:

We must be reading completely different threads. 

I probably should have said threatening, as stating "if I buy it" is clearly implying some doubt. And I might also point out that there is at least one post stating not to buy it under any circumstance, so perhaps you do see it differently. I have been in customer service and know a little bit about the other side.  🙂