Black Tank Chemicals - Liquid or Dry?

[GlennWest]

Do believe rvers are the only people to argue about poop. 

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, Zulu said:

Even when odors are not present, I'll use bleach occasionally to "freshen" my black tank because it's fast, cheap, effective, and readily available.

Now you're turn. Please answer my questions:

• Do you think bleach will destroy the plumbing currently used in RVs?
• What do think is more likely to cause problems in RV septic systems: (1) *use of bleach by RVers or (2) Inadequate septic system maintenance by the park owner?

* I mean the levels of bleach currently dumped into holding tanks, not if all of a sudden every RVer decided to use bleach.

Freshen?  All you are doing is killing helpful bacteria, for no good reason.  How would anyone know their black tank is freshened unless they stick their nose down an open toilet valve.  And the first use of the toilet ‘unfreshens’ the black tank.

Since we have people with 20+ yr old RVs, yes a number of them could be harmed.    Enough RVers following your advice of routinely using bleach could hasten degradation of a septic system.  Far better to use vinegar to remove minerals from seals (and feed microbes) and baking soda to scrub toilet and help buffer water in tank, again good for microbes.  Throw a dishpan full of dishwater down once in awhile to help things ‘mature’ while going down the road.

[Zulu]

2 hours ago, Zulu said:

Even when odors are not present, I'll use bleach occasionally to "freshen" my black tank because it's fast, cheap, effective, and readily available.

Now you're turn. Please answer my questions:

• Do you think bleach will destroy the plumbing currently used in RVs?
• What do think is more likely to cause problems in RV septic systems: (1) *use of bleach by RVers or (2) Inadequate septic system maintenance by the park owner?

* I mean the levels of bleach currently dumped into holding tanks, not if all of a sudden every RVer decided to use bleach.

 

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Since we have people with 20+ yr old RVs, yes a number of them could be harmed. 

I guessed you missed this -- PB plumbing was not used in waste or drain plumbing (see International Association of Home Inspectors article which also explains how to identify PB plumbing).

So that means bleach won't harm RV plumbing -- old or new.

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Enough RVers following your advice of routinely using bleach could hasten degradation of a septic system.

Good one. Judging from the responses, I don't think that's going to happen. But thanks for the left-handed compliment.

BTW, I said "occasional" not routine use of bleach. Guess you missed that too.

So that also means that the current level of using bleach in RVs isn't likely to harm septic systems.

Q.E.D.

[Tex Bigfoot]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:31 AM, GlennWest said:

We have never had a black sensor to work. Concerning ice, I have done that twice, each time with great success. Once with the DRV and once with our Teton just after we got them. Each time sheets of film off of tank came out. I really believe adding chemicals is a waste of money. We not poor and have money to burn but I we don't waste money on tank chemicals. 

 

Don't burn it send it to me and ill send ya some TP that you can burn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RV_]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 11:02 PM, Zulu said:

 

 

Yes, I read the article . . . and then some . . .

The 2010 Arizona Extension Article you linked to is based on an earlier 2001 Arizona Extension Article which are both based on an even earlier 1999 EPA Article.

All three articles say basically the same thing -- some RV chemicals (like formaldehyde and insecticides) are bad for RV septic systems. However, both AZ Extension articles went on to claim that using bleach will essentially destroy your RV plumbing . . . which was true at one time.

The original AZ Extension article was written in 2001 during the time of the Spencer Class Action Lawsuit over polybutylene (PB) plumbing failures. You see, even small levels of bleach could damage PB plumbing in homes and in RVs.

Apparently, the AZ Extension authors never updated their article to match current RV plumbing which is bleach tolerant.

My answer to you for the PEX vulnerability to failure from bleach with chart was in answer to this comment of yours quoted above where you confused septic and all plumbing systems mixing fresh and septic. PB was never used below the toilet back then:

Zulu, you wrote earlier ^^^^^^^^^^

"The original AZ Extension article was written in 2001 during the time of the Spencer Class Action Lawsuit over polybutylene (PB) plumbing failures. You see, even small levels of bleach could damage PB plumbing in homes and in RVs." 

You brought up freshwater PB line failures in a septic system discussion and indicated PEX (modern plumbing tubing especially in RVs) has something to do with this discussion. PEX is barely 50% bleach tolerant as shown above in the chart. It is more tolerant than PB. However, I ended my answer to you pointing out that :

"My black tanks and holding tank, down pipes, valve seals and gasket are all PVC or other materials, only my freshwater supply pipes to the toilet are PEX. Where does your rig run chlorinated/additive full sewage through freshwater pipes?"

Then after you brought up PB, which was only used in the freshwater side, and then I corrected that telling you to stop mixing PB freshwater tubing with RV toilet seals, downpipes made of PVC and other materials you actually came back with:

"Your black water and gray water tanks are probably ABS which is bleach tolerant. Bleach enters via the toilet.

PEX is for the fresh water system (+ polyethylene water tank). Typically the only time bleach runs through these is during water tank sanitation."

LOL, that is why I posted to you:

""My black tanks and holding tank, down pipes, valve seals and gasket are all PVC or other materials, only my freshwater supply pipes to the toilet are PEX. Where does your rig run chlorinated/additive full sewage through freshwater pipes?"

That's why I posted the only 50% resistant to bleach industry fact sheets so folks don't sanitize too often thinking PEX is 100% bleach resistant. 

The occasional use of bleach by one RVr  dumped into one septic system indeed can be fine, but not 200 RVrs in a park all dumping bleach because they read an ill thought method someone distributes online.

I use/d water only, and if someone wants to use additives to their holding tanks, and asks me, based on my personal experience with bactericides and lab testing stool specimens, I'd advise they stick to proven non-harmful to the end septic systems we all dump into like enzymes and bacterial additives. 

[Pat & Pete]

On 5/1/2018 at 4:53 PM, Tex Bigfoot said:

Don't burn it send it to me and ill send ya some TP that you can burn

He might go for that deal , as long as it isn't used . LOL