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Diesel to Gas? Yes/No??


rbertalotto

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Here’s the situation. I have a 2006 Dodge 2500 4x4, with 5.9 diesel, 193,000 miles. Love the truck, but just not comfortable trusting it on long tours. I recently retired in Feb and just completed a two month cross country trip of 9000 miles towing my 20’ Grey Wolf 19rr toy hauler ( 6000 pounds ully loaded)

I simply want a new truck...I drove a 2018 Dodge diesel and was greatly impressed on how civilized diesel trucks have become in 12 years.

But I have lots of concerns with added complexity of particulate filters, extra fluids, computers, etc. And price of a diesel option.

I keep reading how the modern gas engines are competitive with past diesels.

I’m considering a Dodge 2500 with 6.4L gas, 4x4.....

I have zero intention of ever going to a larger trailer.

My question, has anyone gone from diesel to gas with my size trailer and where you satisfied or was it a big, costly, mistake.

Any comments would be appreciated.  Thanks!

RoyB

South of Boston

2021 Dodge 2500 - 6.4L

Forest River 19RR Toy Hauler

Roofnest Falcon Rooftop Tent

www.rvbprecision.com

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Look up the weights on the RAM charts.  I think the gas eng has a bigger payload because the diesel is a lot heavier.  But, torque difference is pretty big, diesel being better.  Then there's the transmission and drive gear ratios that come into play big time.  Gas engine would probably be ok unless you do a lot of mountain/roads with steep grades, then you would want that diesel/torque.  Diesels are a little more to maintain, but if the torque is needed, it's a trade-off.  IF sometime down the road you end up going with a bigger trailer, the 3/4 ton truck would not be able to handle the load legally.  You said you don't plan on it, but plans change.  I prefer over-kill the first time rather than loosing a lot of $$ on the selling of this truck to purchase a bigger one.  That's why I went with the 3500 DRW.  But, it's your choice.  Just my one cents worth.

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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Thanks...Good advise! I already have a 5.9 Diesel so I'm well aware of the towing performance over the gas motors. My last two trucks (GMC with 5.3L and a Ford with 351ci) were both horrible tow vehicles. But since then with 4 speeds becoming 6 and 8 speeds and the HP and Torque increasing dramatically, I'm thinking Gas might be a new consideration. We'll see!

RoyB

South of Boston

2021 Dodge 2500 - 6.4L

Forest River 19RR Toy Hauler

Roofnest Falcon Rooftop Tent

www.rvbprecision.com

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Quote

Look up the weights on the RAM charts.  I think the gas eng has a bigger payload because the diesel is a lot heavier. 

Interesting...Exactly the same trucks at the dealer today. One Gas and the other Diesel. Only difference was the Diesel had 18" wheels and the Gasser had 17". Other wise just engine difference

GAS = 3120 pound payload on door jam yellow sticker

Diesel = 2130  pound payload on door jam yellow sticker

Diesel has nearly 1000 pound payload deficit...... 

RoyB

South of Boston

2021 Dodge 2500 - 6.4L

Forest River 19RR Toy Hauler

Roofnest Falcon Rooftop Tent

www.rvbprecision.com

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16 minutes ago, rbertalotto said:

GAS = 3120 pound payload on door jam yellow sticker

Diesel = 2130  pound payload on door jam yellow sticker

Diesel has nearly 1000 pound payload deficit...... 

Diesel is very heavy, did not realize almost 1k, but it is a much heavier engine.  This weight has to be subtracted from the trucks payload.

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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1 hour ago, rbertalotto said:

Diesel has nearly 1000 pound payload deficit...... 

Could be that they have the same GVWR but did you check the towing weights? I'd expect the diesel to have much higher. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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For mountain and other high altitude driving the diesel will perform much better than gas.  A naturally aspirated gas engine will lose about 3% of power for every 1000 feet in elevation.  The turbo and way diesel fuel burns in the diesel virtually eliminates this loss.  

Randy

2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift

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So...Now to find a 2500, crtew cab, short bed, 4X4 with 6.4L AND 4:10 gears in color WHITE...Not easy!

And it needs to come in at $33,000 delivered......I bet if I wait for the summer doldrums it will happen.....

RoyB

South of Boston

2021 Dodge 2500 - 6.4L

Forest River 19RR Toy Hauler

Roofnest Falcon Rooftop Tent

www.rvbprecision.com

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Has anyone found empirical difference in towing and non-towing fuel mileage between 4:10 and 3:73 gears. I would think they push the 373 because it might get better MPG while unloaded. But then again, 3/4 ton trucks do not need to comply with CAFE ratings and no numbers are given on the window stickers.

RoyB

South of Boston

2021 Dodge 2500 - 6.4L

Forest River 19RR Toy Hauler

Roofnest Falcon Rooftop Tent

www.rvbprecision.com

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7 hours ago, rbertalotto said:

Has anyone found empirical difference in towing and non-towing fuel mileage between 4:10 and 3:73 gears. I would think they push the 373 because it might get better MPG while unloaded. But then again, 3/4 ton trucks do not need to comply with CAFE ratings and no numbers are given on the window stickers.

I owned a 6.4L Bighorn 2500 with 3.73s and averaged about 14.4 over 12,000 miles.  I traded that truck foe a 6.4L Powerwagon with 4.10 gears and it averaged 13.4 over 14,000 miles.  I drive in a conservative fashion, so those numbers could esily have been lower.  I traded the PW on a SRW 3500 with a Cummins.  The SRW Cummins only comes with 3.42s.  It averaged 9.5 towing a 14,000# 5th wheel and 19.5 hand calculated on the highway.

Hope that helps you some.

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If you are 100% sure you will stay at your current towing limit, or lower, it would be a easy decision for me.  I would go with the gas.  What is the savings?  $7,000.....$9,000?

Resale can be a little better with a diesel but it sounds like you keep your trucks for a long time anyway so that probably isn't a factor for you.  

 

Joe & Cindy

Newmar 4369 Ventana

Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks)

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2 hours ago, rbertalotto said:

Thanks for the real world MPG numbers

We started out towing our 4000# GVWR travel trailer with a V-6 powered SUV that got 22/23 mpg when not towing and an average of 11 mpg when towing. We now tow that same travel trailer with a 3/4 ton diesel truck that gets about 19 mpg when not towing and got 14 mpg towing. We then added a shell to cover the bed and we now get 15+ mpg towing. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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Interesting....I recently added a cap to my current 2006 Dodge diesel and on this trip I saw an increase of near 2 mpg!  Last year on the same trip I had a soft tonneau cover that blew off in a wind storm in Texas. MPG went down about 1 mpg with an open bed. Because of my trailer jack I couldn't put down the tailgate to let the wind out!

RoyB

South of Boston

2021 Dodge 2500 - 6.4L

Forest River 19RR Toy Hauler

Roofnest Falcon Rooftop Tent

www.rvbprecision.com

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7 minutes ago, rbertalotto said:

What theory....open tailgate?

That one and the bed cover thing.  They, and others, did extensive testing using bed covers, camper tops, open beds with open and closed tailgate.  Actually, the only improvement they saw was with a closed tailgate and no bed cover of any type.  Using a wind tunnel, they showed that air turbulence within the open truck bed allowed outside air to pass over the top of the truck with no decrease in aerodynamics.

I'm trying to remember the name of the college which did the most testing in this area, but can't.

https://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/pickup-truck-gas-mileage-tailgate-open-closed/

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/driving-tailgate-fuel-consumption/

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f22/leave-tailgate-up-better-gas-mileage-11678/

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/08/pickup-truck-tailgates-and-fuel-economy/index.htm

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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2 hours ago, rbertalotto said:

During these tests were they pulling a trailer with a 10' X 8' sail being pulled through the air at 70mph?

I'm not going to debate with you.  I presented you with some test based information, you do what you want with it.

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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13 hours ago, chirakawa said:

I'm not going to debate with you.  I presented you with some test based information, you do what you want with it.

And this my friend is what is wrong with our country today.  If someone reads something then it is 100% true with no variable or possibility of being wrong or fake.  

Wind tunnel test, yea right.  I guess if you were always driving in those perfect conditions in an unloaded test vehicle and not towing anything then that could be a great guideline to follow.   Some things need to be taken with the "grain of salt" or dismissed altogether.

Joe & Cindy

Newmar 4369 Ventana

Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks)

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52 minutes ago, FL-JOE said:

And this my friend is what is wrong with our country today.  If someone reads something then it is 100% true with no variable or possibility of being wrong or fake.  

Wind tunnel test, yea right.  I guess if you were always driving in those perfect conditions in an unloaded test vehicle and not towing anything then that could be a great guideline to follow.   Some things need to be taken with the "grain of salt" or dismissed altogether.

Exactly, do what you want with the information.  Did you even read the links?  Do a search yourself, you'll get lot's of test results, some of them wind tunnels and others are real time road tests.  Put as much credibility in them as you want.  You're a grown man.

"This is what's wrong with our country"?  Really Joe?

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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Don't care to read all your posted links.  Don't care what a group of college kids came up with in a study.  Some folks put 100% credibility in that sort of thing, then there are other folks, like me, that have actually owned and worked out of pickup trucks their whole life and done their own experiments.  

Northwestern did a study years ago.  The kids carefully visited dozens of Chicago area restaurants and collected two water samples from each business.  One sample was from the toilets and one from served drinking water.  They found that in most cases the toilet water was cleaner.   So now I fully expect you to NEVER NEVER consume water served in any restaurant again, or for that matter never to eat any food in a restaurant that could have been washed or prepared by using water.

Then there was another study conducted by...........

Joe & Cindy

Newmar 4369 Ventana

Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks)

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23 minutes ago, FL-JOE said:

Don't care to read all your posted links.  Don't care what a group of college kids came up with in a study.  Some folks put 100% credibility in that sort of thing, then there are other folks, like me, that have actually owned and worked out of pickup trucks their whole life and done their own experiments.  

 

That's what I thought, you didn't read the links.  None of them had anything to do with college kids or wind tunnel tests.

The first link was to a study done by a group of aerodynamic engineers who did real world studies.  The second one was from Mythbusters who also did a real world test in the desert with pickups equipped similarly except with tailgate down or up, bed covers or not.

The third link was from a GM Insiders forum quoting results of a study done by the National Research Center.  And, the last link is to a study done by Consumer Reports, who some people put a lot of faith in.  I'm not a big fan of them.

I, too am skeptical of studies done in labs and such.  I much prefer to use my own experience as a reference.  I've driven nothing but pickups for the past 45 years.  I'm one of those people who keeps track of every mile I drive and every gallon of fuel I use in a little book in the glove compartment.  I've had bed covers, camper tops, driven with the tailgate up, down, and removed at various times during that period.  I've never noticed any appreciable difference in mpg between any of those situations. 

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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