Caring for others

[sandsys]

I just read this article in the Huffington Post and it resonated with me in relationship to some recent discussions of this forum. I hope you all take time to read it.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_us_59519811e4b0f078efd98440

Linda Sand

[whj469]

I did go to the link and read it. I hadn't noticed your name before I read it but I knew that you were a female after I did. It most definitely resonated with me totally. Thank You

[sandsys]

3 hours ago, whj469 said:

I did go to the link and read it. I hadn't noticed your name before I read it but I knew that you were a female after I did. It most definitely resonated with me totally. Thank You

You're welcome.

I always get upset with people who want to cut school funding. It seems smart to me to educate those who will be in charge during our old age.

Linda Sand

[Striper]

Hey Linda,

Let me tell you why some of us talk about what you call "cutting school funding".  In Washington State the Legislature past an added tax on Real Estate to fund schools.( this is on our Annual Property Tax and will go on forever)  This money was supposed to go toward more teachers, etc.  In other words it was actually supposed to get to the Classroom level.  One of the first things our local district did was to create another position in Administration with a starting salary of $125,000.  Oh and then that person had to have a Secretary. another $30,000.  By the time you add benefits to both of these new positions you are fast approaching $200,000 per year.  This is money that was meant for the classroom.  There is NO accountability in how the local districts spend the money we pay for education.  I know Teachers in our district that tell me they have less money to spend in their classroom now than they did 10 years ago.  Why, because ADMINISTRATION eats up so much of the budget.  Last time I checked the School Suprentindent was the HIGHEST PAID POSITION IN THE COUNTY.

That is why I for one talk about what you refer to as "Cutting school funding".  I actually mean that we need accountability on how the money is actually spent and we need t cut the Fat Cats from the top of the heap that are taking the majority of the money meant to actually try to educate our kids..

 

Ok, I'll get down off my soap box now before I say something that gets me banned.

 

Joe

[sandsys]

Joe,

I understand. Many programs would be more efficient with less administration. That's why I prefer charities that provide a breakdown of how the money is spent.

Linda

[Kirk W]

While I do believe in funding things like teacher pay, academic school facilities, books and teaching materials, classroom equipment, and most anything that is directly connected to the education of the students. But I get very tired of living on a fixed income that is slowly being eaten away while we pay to build football stadiums that could house minor league pro teams and the host of other athletic facilities that only a small share of the students ever benefit from. I'll even gladly pay for things like band rooms and other extracurricular activity areas that most students can use but the majority of students are not athletes and even those who rarely use those skills to earn a living as adults. 

[Chalkie]

38 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

But I get very tired of living on a fixed income that is slowly being eaten away while we pay to build football stadiums that could house minor league pro teams and the host of other athletic facilities that only a small share of the students ever benefit from.

I think this may be a Texas phenomena as I can assure it is not true is all states. However, I do bemoan all the "electives" that have been cut over the years. Things like shop classes and driver's ed immediately come to my mind. Our education system has placed such an emphasis on higher education that the jobs needed to manage and staff the underpinnings of our society are now sadly lacking. 

[Kirk W]

13 hours ago, Chalkie said:

I think this may be a Texas phenomena as I can assure it is not true is all states.

You may well be right, but I do see those in other states and I have long felt that many school systems have their priorities wrong. I suspect that most school districts pay the football coach as much or more than any other school employee. 

Quote

Statewide, football coaches earn an average of $98,668. The average salary for a high school teacher is $55,221.Sep 6, 2017

 

 

[bigjim]

In the interest of clarity I need to say that coaches often spend far more hours than teachers in all the aspects of coaching. This often more true in the smaller rural schools. They usually teach classes also and one coach may be the basketball coach but also the assistant coach for other sports.

To keep up the clarity part in most cases teachers may put in more hours than just in school I don't know how common this is now but when I was young (in the dark ages) it was common for teachers to sometimes spend significant time at home grading papers, etc.

In this day when so many teachers are working multiple jobs to get by they can't have time for  grading paper at home and a home/private life.

I am sure they still work extra jobs in summer like camp counselor, sales. whatever. but with the longer school years I am sure that impacts their sources of auxilary income.

 

 

[Striper]

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

You may well be right, but I do see those in other states and I have long felt that many school systems have their priorities wrong. I suspect that most school districts pay the football coach as much or more than any other school employee. 

 

In the small community that I live in the school Maintenance Chief told the employee that cleaned the old stadium to quit writing up the poorly maintained locker rooms as they were going to let them detrerioate to the point of being unuseable so the TAXPAYERS nwould have to build them a new stadium.  As Kirk stated, the new stadium would nicely serve a semi pro team and by the time it was completed had almost doubled in cost.  School Board President said, "the TAXPAYERS" will just have to step up and pay it".  Ans as Kirk said, this facility serves less than 6% of the school enrollment.  The district has NO classes that teach carpentry, metal working/welding, auto repair, electrical, etc. anymore.

As for salaries, I have a friend that has just retired from teaching.  He taught 8th grade math, but also doubled as the Girls Basketball Coach and the Assistant Football Coach as these positions paid him EXTRA.  To replace his income would have required him to have a job that paid right at $100,00 per year with benefits.  Somehow I don't see that as being underpaid.

 

Joe

[bigjim]

Striper, I think you have stated the case well in many instances on all points you made.  I mostly hail from the areas of Tx Kirk has mentioned so I get that point.  I even worked in maint. both repair, yard, janitoral or more as needed for about 6 mo. when I got out of the miltary the 2nd time  at the time it might have been considered a rural school but not now.  Forney Tx.   Your statement about letting things fall apart to force someone in the chain to be forced or coerced into spending lavishly to replace assets is common in all of life unfortunatly and I sure don't like it or condone it. The military does it, most of government does it including the Congress and Senate. But it is pragmatic to deal with it the best way we can I suppose. My point in stating what I did was more or less informational to allow others to understand some stuff I didn't at one time.

[bigjim]

I think I was trying to not dogpile any one entity as it seems to run across the board to a certain extent. I could start a big fight in saying I tend to believe too many people are so rapt up in sports ( and I don't mean the atheletes as much as the rampant fans) that they don't spend the time to learn about what is going on so as to make intelligent choices of who we pick to lead us.

I messed that up and my edit ended as another post.

[Kirk W]

15 hours ago, bigjim said:

I tend to believe too many people are so rapt up in sports

I had a history teacher in college who compared the US and our lavish spending on sports to the Roman Empire in it's later years where they spent excessively on gladiator shows and such. The Romans were spending more on entertainment than to take care of necessities of the community and that lead to their demise. My professor said that we are going that same way but in place of gladiators we have sports teams that we spend just as lavishly on. I laughed at his thinking when he said that in class many years ago. I do not laugh at his thinking today. 

If you believe that our schools have their priorities right, compare the recognition that is given in school systems to their athletes to the recognition given to top scholars.... We spend most for athletes, next in the budget are the handicapped students, then average kids and if there is anything left we spend a little on the gifted students! We worship the athletes and we call the gifted students nerds!

[FidelHamilton]

Hey, that is really great information.

[FL-JOE]

Our country has created hundred of thousands 3rd and 4th generation families that have known nothing but total welfare dependence.  Some of the service industry jobs would have to be raised to $20 an hour or more to ever correct any of that.  If as an uneducated parent if I can get $12,000 to $14,000 in government benefits a year plus pick up another $10,000 or more on the side, without actually working, why in the world would I every go work full time at McDonalds for $15 an hour?  

I grew up in public housing.  At 12 years of age I had a paper route and saved almost every dime.  At 14 years of age I began working at a local construction company sweeping the shop after school and then full time in the summer.  My mother worked full time as did my sister when she was 15.  When I was 16 we put our money together and finally got a house.  The welfare cycle in our family was broken, no more government assistance.  The same can be done today by anyone willing to work for it.   

[chirakawa]

4 minutes ago, FL-JOE said:

Our country has created hundred of thousands 3rd and 4th generation families that have known nothing but total welfare dependence.  Some of the service industry jobs would have to be raised to $20 an hour or more to ever correct any of that.  If as an uneducated parent if I can get $12,000 to $14,000 in government benefits a year plus pick up another $10,000 or more on the side, without actually working, why in the world would I every go work full time at McDonalds for $15 an hour?  

I grew up in public housing.  At 12 years of age I had a paper route and saved almost every dime.  At 14 years of age I began working at a local construction company sweeping the shop after school and then full time in the summer.  My mother worked full time as did my sister when she was 15.  When I was 16 we put our money together and finally got a house.  The welfare cycle in our family was broken, no more government assistance.  The same can be done today by anyone willing to work for it.   

You answered your first paragraph question in your second paragraph.  It's called personal pride and personal responsibility, and you can't instill that in people by throwing money at them.

[FL-JOE]

My last 3 years before retirement I was in public housing almost on a daily basis.  I had a 12" pony tail, beard, and you certainly would not have welcomed me to your neighborhood.  My point is I had a chance to become familiar with folks that were living in similar circumstances that I grew up in.  I was shocked to learn how well some of them lived.  It was common place to find new 65" TVs, young guys with $300 gym shoes, $200 shirts, and they were not eating frozen dinners either.  

It broke my heart because our welfare system had created this situation.  

That's it, I'm getting off my soap box now.

[SWharton]

When I went to high school and our children were in hightthe various teachers coached the teams for some extra pay. The school didn't hire a coach for each team, games were played in daylight, not in lit stadiums. Also, the school system provided basic school supplies, no shopping list to school supplies to buy at the beginning of the year.

We moved from NJ to TX and it was a rude awakening when our daughter's came home with a list of school supplies we were expected to buy. I was totally shocked to see this and to make it worse, each class had a different list. I felt then and do today that this is why I pay school taxes, for the teachers and the schooling necessities. I don't understand how a less fortunate person would be able to afford these school supplies.

Our school in NJ(K-4) had one principle, an assistant and a school secretary. No full time nurse, librarian or whatever else. The school had about 400 kids.

End of my soapbox.

 

[sandsys]

3 hours ago, SWharton said:

the school system provided basic school supplies, no shopping list to school supplies to buy at the beginning of the year.

We moved from NJ to TX and it was a rude awakening when our daughter's came home with a list of school supplies we were expected to buy.

I'm 70 years old so school was a long time ago in Illinois. We were required to buy our own paper, pencils, etc., to be ready for the first day of school but they were very basic supplies. Not like now when they might require glue sticks, colored pencils, markers, etc.

In Minnesota there are drives for those who can afford to do so to buy backpacks filled with school supplies for those who can't afford them. The supply lists are posted in drug stores, etc. so people will buy what the schools demand.

We have not come a long way, baby.

Linda Sand

[RV_]

I just saw and read this Linda, thanks. I believe that kindness is lacking in folks that judge others they have never meyt.

This part struck a chord:

"I don’t know what’s changed ― or indeed, if anything has ― and I don’t have any easy answers. But I do know I’m done trying to convince these hordes of selfish, cruel people to look beyond themselves."

Linda,

Here is one you might like about why some folks don't understand common sense:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-power-prime/201107/common-sense-is-neither-common-nor-sense

Thanks again Linda.

 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

My mother was a teacher from the late '60's to 1990.  I remember her buying basics for kids that couldn't afford.  I also remember her buying coats, hats, shoes, gloves, socks, and even underwear for kids that didn't have.  

[sandsys]

I once met a man who grew up so poor he never learned to wear underwear so he still didn't as an adult. He couldn't see spending his limited resources on something he didn't see a need for. To him, buying underwear was not using common sense.

Linda

[Sehc]

Wow. Went from the golden rule to commando. In right short order.

[SWharton]

Yesterday we were visiting my daughter and the door bell rang. I answered the door and there were 3 teenagers there. They were collecting money for the local high school so they could have new football uniforms! If the school can't supply even football uniforms drop the sport!

[SWharton]

Grew up on NJ and never bought any supplies. I remember the big thing each year was buying a few pencils and a pencil case.