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Atwood ignition


L.C.

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Atwood G6a-8E Gas water heater; problem: Turn switch on inside, no ignition. Leave switch off, go outside to heater and un-plug 4 pin connector. Go back inside and turn switch on

Go back outside and plug in 4 pin connector, then heater will ignnite !! Seems like bad switch or perhaps control board, or  ???

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An interesting troubleshooting process. I have worked on a lot of RV water heaters over the years but can't remember ever trying that. I can tell you several things which it could be and the circuit board is one of those possibilities. Yet another is poor voltage or poor electrical connections. Before spending the money to buy a circuit board I would first try cleaning the electrical connections with some very fine emery cloth to make sure the electrical connections are good. I would also use a good quality voltmeter to see for sure what the supply voltage to the circuit board is. I would also pull out the water heater on/off switch and measure through it with an ohm meter looking to see more than 10000Ω when open and near 0Ω when closed. If what you describe happens every time you turn the water heater on, That very well could mean the circuit board but it is difficult to think of what might be going on in that circuit to cause your symptom but it doesn't see probably that it would be due to the ignitor probe. 

If you do buy a new circuit board, I strongly recommend that you get one from Dinosaur Electronics as they cost about half what the OEM boards do and have a 2 year warranty while OEM has only 1 year. I also never replace a water heater circuit board without also replacing the probe since they do fail more frequently than the circuit boards and they cost far less to replace. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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A quick way to test if the board is bad if you have a Hydroflame furnace, particularly the common 8500 or 8900 series with easy access, is to just borrow the igniter board from it and try it on your water heater. When you turn it on, there will be the same ~20 second delay that the furnace has, but then it will fire up and work normally if nothing else is wrong.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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LC, I was once on the phone with Dinosaur Electronics (who manufactures replacement circuit boards) troubleshooting a similar problem. They insisted I use a quality voltmeter to measure voltage to the board AS LOW VOLTAGE can cause problems. I was advised to remove the flat ribbon cable connector and use a lead pencil eraser to gently polish and clean up the contact strips on the circuit board as resistance and voltage drop there can cause problems. When cleaning sensitive electrical connections and components I do not like to use anything that may leave fine residue/particles. As I best recall it was Dinosaur who first suggested a pencil eraser and I also like electrical contact spray cleaner with a good clean up afterwards. 

 You have to first confirm sufficient voltage TO THE BOARD (via switch and connections or other limits) and if that's present and its NOT a low voltage or connection problem, then I might suspect the board. I have also observed circuit boards that exhibited intermittent problems when moved or plugged and unplugged etc HAD A LOOSE FAULTY COLD SOLDER JOINT which was easily cured using a small soldering iron.

NOTE one thing to remember when making voltage checks is that if there's a bad/loose/burned/resistive  connection there's NO  I x R voltage drop across it until current flows through it.

Check connections and voltages and look for easy simple fixes (bad resistive switch contacts, ribbon cable connection, other  limits) FIRST before investing in circuit boards etc. 

John T

 

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On 3/16/2018 at 2:55 PM, L.C. said:

Atwood G6a-8E Gas water heater; problem: Turn switch on inside, no ignition. Leave switch off, go outside to heater and un-plug 4 pin connector. Go back inside and turn switch on

Go back outside and plug in 4 pin connector, then heater will ignnite !! Seems like bad switch or perhaps control board, or  ???

Just to be sure that we fully understand the sequence of events:

Have you had someone outside near the water heater when you turn the inside switch on?  If so did they confirm that at no time did the water heater igniter spark and/or hear the gas ignite?  Or did they hear the sparking and gas igniting, but going out in 3 to 4 seconds.  On some RV's you can hear the water heater sparking and the gas lighting from the inside.

A water heater will try to ignite 3 times and stop.  Turning the inside switch off and on will restart the 3 lighting process and many times the heater will work on the second 3 tries.   Which is the end result of what you are doing with the unplgging and plugging of the cable.  You are starting the second round of lighting tries.

A poor or corroded ground connection can cause the above type of problem. 

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:58 PM, Al F said:

Have you had someone outside near the water heater when you turn the inside switch on?  If so did they confirm that at no time did the water heater igniter spark and/or hear the gas ignite?  Or did they hear the sparking and gas igniting, but going out in 3 to 4 seconds.  On some RV's you can hear the water heater sparking and the gas lighting from the inside.

 Al, in line with your post,  in cases where all the voltages and connections AT THE BOARD are fine (and  any safety limits or thermals or T Stat or fuses etc are all okay)  but there's still failure to ignite, I have the wife turn it on while I'm outside at the heater. I hope/expect to hear and feel the gas valve open and on some models see ?? or hear the Ignitor Tip fire the snap snap snap HV arcing sound it makes. If I cant hear the snap snap snap or possibly see ?? the arcing, I remove the HV ignitor tip assembly cable (ifffffffffffff heater model is such type and allows ????) on the board and replace it with a jumper wire to within 1/8 inch from metal, turn it on and look for the small firing arcs to see if the board and its HV coil/transformer is operating. If there's no gas valve opening nor any HV arcing and the board is receiving full voltage, then I suspect the board. However if the HV coil/transformer is producing a spark (via the rigged jumper) and the gas valve is opening, then I suspect a bad HV ignitor tip assembly (hairline crack or carbon trace or bad connection or ground or improper location or its HV cable is bad) or it may just need relocated.  And there's also the other problem you described where it lights but then goes out grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. If it senses no flame (or that board function isn't working correct) it shuts down for safety.

DISCLAIMER NOTE: I cant say for sure any of this applies to HIS HEATER (I didn't take time to look at his manual) but FWIW it has on several models I've owned, take it as pure GENERIC suggestions.

INDEED check all connections including grounds and for a resistive switch HE NEEDS GOOD VOLTAGE AT THE BOARD. Sure the board may be bad, but I try the simple easy CHEAPER fixes first lol

 Fun chatting with yall, hope were helping??

John T

 

Edited by oldjohnt
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  • 2 weeks later...

This is actually a fairly common problem with older Atwood water heaters.  Dinosaur has sold a lot of replacement boards for this very reason.  A new board will fix the problem, but the board is not the problem.  It is the connector on the wiring harness.  As explained by the OP, just remove and reconnect the wiring harness and all will work at least temporarily.  I more or less solved the problem by using a paper binder clip to apply tension onto the connector.  I have used it for 6 of the 7 years I have owned by RV.  It works almost all the time but occasionally I still need to disconnect and reconnect. 

It is also a good idea to spend just a few dollars and replace the thermocouple.  A new thermocouple probably sends a stronger signal which also seems to help.  Again a new thermocouple might help but will not fix the problem with the connector.

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3 hours ago, JimK said:

This is actually a fairly common problem with older Atwood water heaters.  Dinosaur has sold a lot of replacement boards for this very reason.  A new board will fix the problem, but the board is not the problem.  It is the connector on the wiring harness. 

I had the same problem with my water heater - it would refuse to start when the tank was cold, in warm weather or with warm water in the tank it worked fine.  Plugging and unplugging the connector would fix it for a while.

Eventually I removed the board, inspected it with a magnifying glass and found a cold solder joint near the connector.  Wiggling the connector would flex the board enough to fix the bad joint for a while, but the real cure was applying heat and flux from a bit of new solder to re-flow the bad connection.

On a related note, a while back the gas valve on my water heater was refusing to open in cold weather.  I verified the valve was receiving the correct voltage to open and the solenoid coils showed continuity.  I took the valve out of the water heater and and removed the cover over the secondary regulator diaphragm.  The diaphragm action felt sticky when I tried pulling on it's shaft, so I carefully peeled open an edge of the diaphragm, filled the chamber with rubbing alcohol and let it sit for a while.  When I drained it out it smelled strongly of the mercaptin oil that's added to propane so you can smell leaks.  I think that's what was jamming the valve, and it's been working fine ever since.

Edited by Lou Schneider
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7 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

I had the same problem with my water heater - it would refuse to start when the tank was cold, in warm weather or with warm water in the tank it worked fine.  Plugging and unplugging the connector would fix it for a while.

Eventually I removed the board, inspected it with a magnifying glass and found a cold solder joint near the connector.  Wiggling the connector would flex the board enough to fix the bad joint for a while, but the real cure was applying heat and flux from a bit of new solder to re-flow the bad connection.

I'm guessing that you have a Suburban water heater, Lou. Atwood uses a fully potted board that's impossible to service beyond cleaning the connection contacts. When my Atwood heater failed recently, I took the potted board with me and had the parts guy verify it was bad on his tester before I bought a Dinosaur replacement.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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1 hour ago, Dutch_12078 said:

I'm guessing that you have a Suburban water heater, Lou. Atwood uses a fully potted board that's impossible to service beyond cleaning the connection contacts. When my Atwood heater failed recently, I took the potted board with me and had the parts guy verify it was bad on his tester before I bought a Dinosaur replacement.

You're right Dutch.  I've had both types and both the bad circuit board and the gummed up gas valve were on the Suburban water heater.   Of course, it's OEM in my 26 year old motorhome so I'm not too disappointed in it.

Edited by Lou Schneider
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9 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

You're right Dutch.  I've had both types and both the bad circuit board and the gummed up gas valve were on the Suburban water heater.   Of course, it's OEM in my 26 year old motorhome so I'm not too disappointed in it.

Oh yeah, at that age I'd say your old lower case "dinosaur board" is probably due to be replaced by a new upper case "Dinosaur Board"! :rolleyes::D

I usually keep a spare Dinosaur UIB-S universal igniter board on hand that can be used as a replacement in many RV furnaces, water heaters, and refrigerators. 

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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21 hours ago, Dutch_12078 said:

I usually keep a spare Dinosaur UIB-S universal igniter board on hand that can be used as a replacement in many RV furnaces, water heaters, and refrigerators. 

 Dutch good idea, I carry one also and as I best recall its a Dinosaur as you mentioned universal to fit some furnaces and water heaters but NOT my fridge which has a separate ignitor and an entirely different control board. I carry an extra ignitor module for it. Good insurance since if you spend the money and carry one with you the originals seldom go bad LOL  As an old Boy Scout I usually carry a spare belt often spare radiator hoses and on some RV's that used an ignition module (and coil) I carry one of those, plus the usual spare tire and tire plugs and air compressor etc etc etc AND MY EMERGENCY ROAD SERVICE CARD and a ton of other assorted spare parts and tools..............

  John T

 

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I agree on the "preventative spares", John! I had a Dinosaur universal igniter board on hand that I bought in 2008 and never had a board failure that needed anything more than contact cleaning to correct. Then I used my spare board to fix a neighbor's furnace while in Florida this winter. Since we were moving frequently at that point, I didn't get around to replacing the board, so of course, three weeks later my Atwood water heater's potted igniter module hard failed. Fortunately, because we have two Hydro-flame furnaces, I was able to borrow the igniter board from one of them to keep us in hot water for several days until we were near an RV dealer that had a new board in stock. And shortly after that, I added another universal board to my spares. 

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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On 4/2/2018 at 8:12 AM, Dutch_12078 said:

I usually keep a spare Dinosaur UIB-S universal igniter board on hand that can be used as a replacement in many RV furnaces, water heaters, and refrigerators. 

While I have used them, I have never bothered to keep one in stock. As handy as that might be, I have only replaced an ignition circuit board on 1 furnace and on 2 water heaters over more than 40 years 6 different RVs. That doesn't include those I have done while helping other RV owners, as there have been several of those. I did carry an extra water heater ignition probe and a few other things when we were fulltime. If I remember, the Atwood ignition boards were not always potted. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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25 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

While I have used them, I have never bothered to keep one in stock. As handy as that might be, I have only replaced an ignition circuit board on 1 furnace and on 2 water heaters over more than 40 years 6 different RVs. That doesn't include those I have done while helping other RV owners, as there have been several of those. I did carry an extra water heater ignition probe and a few other things when we were fulltime. If I remember, the Atwood ignition boards were not always potted. 

I don't recall just when Atwood switched to the potted boards, but it sure eliminated board level repairs when they did. Since we visit a fair amount of cool/cold weather areas in the course of the years, I thought it prudent to have a board on hand just in case. Now having two furnaces though, it's less of an issue since we can keep warm well enough on one furnace in moderate cold weather. The 20 degree nights we're seeing right now in upstate NY though, could be a little problematic if we had a furnace failure. With both of them working, we've been comfortable even at temps a few degrees below zero. The furnace boards work fine in the water heater as well if needed. It takes a little getting used to the time delay before it fires up though.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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  • 3 years later...

Gentlemen:  Thank you so very much for your suggestions.  I was going nuts trying to get this $%(*#! to work.  I had almost exhausted all ideas until I read your comments.  I tried them and it worked.

I had the tank split last February during the Deep Freeze that struck Texas and had it welded up.  I put the mess back together (and insulated the tank this time.  The original insulation had disappeared years ago) and put it back in. No fire. Replaced the ECO and two sensors to no avail.  I had traced the workings down to the control board (the most expensive part, naturally) and was about to reach for the credit card when I stumbled upon this page.  The heater is now running to ops check everything but I think that, with your help I've got it whipped.  We shall see.

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  • 11 months later...
1 hour ago, Markshader said:

Does an Atwood circuit board in a hot water heater need to be potted?

The Dinosaur board I used on our Atwood water heater is not potted. It is protected by Dinosaur's optional plastic cover though. The board has been in service for about 5 years now.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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1 hour ago, Dutch_12078 said:

The board has been in service for about 5 years now.

I have also replaced the Atwood circuit board with one from Dinosaur Electronics that was not. I'm not sure why Atwood has gone that way as there circuit boards have not always been potted but I don't believe that they sell one that isn't that way nowadays. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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12 hours ago, Markshader said:

Does an Atwood circuit board in a hot water heater need to be potted?

 

Mornin Mark, It's been a while since I purchased a board from Dinosaur, but FWIW like the fine gentlemen Dutch and Kirk above, mine was NOT potted. Im happy to say I haven't had any boards go bad lately and NEVER had a Dinosaur unit go bad yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy  I contribute a part of recent success to checking cleaning and maintaining ALL WIRING CONNECTIONS AND GROUNDS..

Jim, thanks for the feedback, glad to hear its fixed.

 John T One Happy Camper and Dinosaur customer

 

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On 3/17/2018 at 8:51 AM, oldjohnt said:

LC, I was once on the phone with Dinosaur Electronics (who manufactures replacement circuit boards) troubleshooting a similar problem. They insisted I use a quality voltmeter to measure voltage to the board AS LOW VOLTAGE can cause problems. I was advised to remove the flat ribbon cable connector and use a lead pencil eraser to gently polish and clean up the contact strips on the circuit board as resistance and voltage drop there can cause problems. When cleaning sensitive electrical connections and components I do not like to use anything that may leave fine residue/particles. As I best recall it was Dinosaur who first suggested a pencil eraser and I also like electrical contact spray cleaner with a good clean up afterwards. 

 You have to first confirm sufficient voltage TO THE BOARD (via switch and connections or other limits) and if that's present and its NOT a low voltage or connection problem, then I might suspect the board. I have also observed circuit boards that exhibited intermittent problems when moved or plugged and unplugged etc HAD A LOOSE FAULTY COLD SOLDER JOINT which was easily cured using a small soldering iron.

NOTE one thing to remember when making voltage checks is that if there's a bad/loose/burned/resistive  connection there's NO  I x R voltage drop across it until current flows through it.

Check connections and voltages and look for easy simple fixes (bad resistive switch contacts, ribbon cable connection, other  limits) FIRST before investing in circuit boards etc. 

John T

 

Exactly!  RV water heater low voltage connections are particularly susceptible to corrosion blocking contact. Next is seldom-used wall thermostats.

 

2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.  John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961

 

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