Trailer Fire - need some help please.

[NeverEasy]

21 minutes ago, RandyA said:

Having you drop in would be a pleasure. 

I believe we will save that for a better time.  Somehow I thought you were not getting to the ECR until the 19th.  We will see you there.

You will not arrive in Richmond until Saturday, race day, and it is hell getting in/out in the traffic.  Sunday A.M. is chaos getting broken down and out with me being responsible for most of the gear for 6 RVs dry camping (tailgating) for 4 days. 

I went over this afternoon and started working on the Binkley.  I am going to give it a good cleaning and PM.  Getting the busted shoulder bolt out was a PITA.  The jaws and their pins are in great shape.  The big center pin seems to be in good shape but I intend to put in a new one.   I am not too happy about the side pins/pivots.  Seems to be some slop there.  I would replace them if I thought I had a chance of getting the pins.  Don't know if it is the pins or pivots holes that are worn.  Don't know how to get the retaining pins out of the pivot pins.  It looks like a piece of 1/4 inch rod driven through the pin that keeps the pin from moving in or out.  My guess is that they were put in by heating the pin and driven in while the pin hole was expanded.   I could heat them to see if it helps but I don't want to screw anything up to make it unusable for you.

Anyone know how to get the retaining pin out of the side pivot pins?

Searched the internet for "how to" and for parts.  Did not find any info on either.

[Pappy Yokum]

Randy - very sorry to hear of your misfortune - and glad to hear you are OK.

As a 30yr (paid dept) firefighter and also a 5th wheel owner - I've *never* been thrilled about emergency egress from the bedroom areas of most 5th wheels, including my own.

What you experienced, and I assume we all know:  RVs (of all types) and Mobile Homes don't have the same construction protection as found in stick & brick homes. Getting out..... sooner than -  RIGHT NOW!! -  is the number one priority!

Unfortunately the "emergency exit " window/s from 5th wheel bedrooms are a joke - as well as not the least bit convenient in a real emergency - or for a "dry run" fire drill..  Hate to think about that in the middle of the night - from a sound sleep - as you encountered!

Please take a few moments to provide the details of how you made your exit from your trailer - as well as any observations you may have had (from that perspective) in choosing  the replacement. Your experience(s) may help others!

(Would imagine it's tough getting a good night's sleep now!) 

Hope it gets better and all goes well with your hitch replacement.

.

[VegasFlyer]

Randy,

Glad to hear you made it out of the fire without serious injury.

As you said, you were very very lucky.  I recently went to a training class on investigating crashes involving cargo fires related to lithium batteries and the info provided was staggering.  Even a small battery like one found in a cell phone can generate over 1,100 degrees F and as you said, it is not a slow process, it is more of an instantaneous combustion.  They showed a video of an actual fire initiated in an aluminum cargo bin where one small iPhone battery, in a box of 48, was remotely shorted out and within seconds the remaining batteries were going off like small hand grenades and burned through the metal cargo bin like it was butter.  You had two large cells basically directly underneath you.  It is no wonder that things got bad real quick.

 

[SuiteSuccess]

8 hours ago, NeverEasy said:

I believe we will save that for a better time.  Somehow I thought you were not getting to the ECR until the 19th.  We will see you there.

You will not arrive in Richmond until Saturday, race day, and it is hell getting in/out in the traffic.  Sunday A.M. is chaos getting broken down and out with me being responsible for most of the gear for 6 RVs dry camping (tailgating) for 4 days. 

I went over this afternoon and started working on the Binkley.  I am going to give it a good cleaning and PM.  Getting the busted shoulder bolt out was a PITA.  The jaws and their pins are in great shape.  The big center pin seems to be in good shape but I intend to put in a new one.   I am not too happy about the side pins/pivots.  Seems to be some slop there.  I would replace them if I thought I had a chance of getting the pins.  Don't know if it is the pins or pivots holes that are worn.  Don't know how to get the retaining pins out of the pivot pins.  It looks like a piece of 1/4 inch rod driven through the pin that keeps the pin from moving in or out.  My guess is that they were put in by heating the pin and driven in while the pin hole was expanded.   I could heat them to see if it helps but I don't want to screw anything up to make it unusable for you.

Anyone know how to get the retaining pin out of the side pivot pins?

Searched the internet for "how to" and for parts.  Did not find any info on either.

Chet,

I am in the process of revamping my hitch with the help of GeorgiaHybrid.  My Binkley head also has some slop in the pins but according to Holland the head is not serviceable in that area, they want to sell you a new one.  The retaining pins are pressed in and would have to be cut and drilled out.  Difficult in the best of circumstances.  If you notice, no bearings in that area so I assume planned obsolescence?

[Jmorris]

Randy, I don't know if you remember me but a few years ago you were kind enough to invite me to your place to show me your truck and share a great deal of your information about HDT's.  Although I have yet to make the move to the darkside I am still very grateful that you took the time for a complete stranger to share your experience.  I am still right across the river in Chesterfield County and I have a complete machine shop at my disposal if you find you need help with something that you cannot handle with the tools you have at home please let me know.

John

[Sehc]

Thankfully you were not hurt. It sounds like the property losses are gradually being recovered.

This needs be used as a warning. Please do not use any lithium cells for homemade systems, except LiFePo.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

4 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Chet,

I am in the process of revamping my hitch with the help of GeorgiaHybrid.  My Binkley head also has some slop in the pins but according to Holland the head is not serviceable in that area, they want to sell you a new one.  The retaining pins are pressed in and would have to be cut and drilled out.  Difficult in the best of circumstances.  If you notice, no bearings in that area so I assume planned obsolescence?

I also answered your question in the other thread but thought I would add that you can get the pins out by drilling an access hole in the top plate and driving them out but that might not be a good way of doing it. You could also use a blue tip wrench to cut the pin off and disassemble the head that way.

You could then either make new bearing plates for the pin or add in a sealed roller bearing after machining the 1/4 side plates out a little more, add a synthetic bushing into the bottom attachment plate for the new clevis pins and then machine new clevis pins and attach them with either a tapered, splined pin like the original or use a threaded pin with red Loctite to make sure it stays in place if you want to disassemble it again in the future.

Or you could call up Henry and buy one of his super Binkley heads that can be torn down and rebuilt with new bushings. Carl has seen what they look like as I copied the way that Henry is building them now while I was doing some other things to the hitch.

[NeverEasy]

GH, Good info!  Thanks.  RandyA, if you are watching this go to the following post.  There is a question posted there for you. Chet

 

[hemsteadc]

19 hours ago, RandyA said:

  I had charged it to 48.8 volts the previous day with a charger I had built that had both current and voltage limiting circuitry.  It's peak DC output was 50 volts as controlled by an auto transformer, charging current was limited to 15 amps. 

That's quite different from my 48v pack.  Bulk=58.6. float=55.2  Resting voltage around 52.7

[Stickman81]

WoW!  Incredible!  Thank you for sharing with us and reminding us all what could happen without notice.  I presume you folks are okay physically and hope there are no problems.  

 

[JPL]

Randy    Still thinking how blessed the two of you are. Talked to Chet tonight. He is working on the hitch. Hopefully things will work out. It's raining and cool here but they say Spring is just around the corner. Hope there isn't a truck waiting there to run over us! If not before will see you at the Rally. Take care.    Pat

 

 

 The Old Sailor

[phoenix2013]

Randy, I will be in Palm Bay tomorrow morning (Friday) helping another RVer. If you'd like we could get together to explore "options".

As you might have read it I am working with Dave and his entire hitch will be available, I also have at least a couple of old Binkley heads that I "salvaged" out of old Trailer Savers, the advantage of these would be that they will have the proper bottom welded on them to go directly into a Trailer Saver. I could check for you to see if they still have good service life.

Henry 603-382-6500

[RandyA]

On 3/6/2018 at 6:32 PM, hemsteadc said:

That's quite different from my 48v pack.  Bulk=58.6. float=55.2  Resting voltage around 52.7

OK - you have this cat's curiosity up.  Are you talking about Li-Ion or lead-acid battery cells?  If Li-Ion what 48-volt pack are you using?

[RandyA]

Henry - just called,  got voice mail, left a message.  I'll try again later if you don't call back.  Charlie and I would love to come down if for no other reason than to see you.  But, we need to know where to find you in Palm Bay.

[RandyA]

On 3/6/2018 at 1:51 AM, Pappy Yokum said:

Randy - very sorry to hear of your misfortune - and glad to hear you are OK.

As a 30yr (paid dept) firefighter and also a 5th wheel owner - I've *never* been thrilled about emergency egress from the bedroom areas of most 5th wheels, including my own.

What you experienced, and I assume we all know:  RVs (of all types) and Mobile Homes don't have the same construction protection as found in stick & brick homes. Getting out..... sooner than -  RIGHT NOW!! -  is the number one priority!

Unfortunately the "emergency exit " window/s from 5th wheel bedrooms are a joke - as well as not the least bit convenient in a real emergency - or for a "dry run" fire drill..  Hate to think about that in the middle of the night - from a sound sleep - as you encountered!

Please take a few moments to provide the details of how you made your exit from your trailer - as well as any observations you may have had (from that perspective) in choosing  the replacement. Your experience(s) may help others!

(Would imagine it's tough getting a good night's sleep now!) 

Hope it gets better and all goes well with your hitch replacement.

.

2

Pappy, right now we are just trying to get life reconstructed.  But, you can rest assured that as soon as we can get a good night's sleep I will be putting out a lot more info and suggestions on "escaping".  Maybe it is time for me to get back to writing a blog?  I learned a lot - actually too much for one night.  Number one thing for everyone to remember is that a fifth wheel fire moves very fast.  Time to respond and get out is counted in seconds.  We are currently working on a compact escape ladder and methods to get up (on the dresser?), turned around and out the small bedroom window without diving head first.  Both the DW and I need to know where it is, how to get the window out and deploy the ladder blindfolded.  No time to read directions or experiment when a fire emergency occurs.  Also looking into some type of fire ax, lightweight fire blankets, masks and a 20# fire extinguisher.  If anyone considers this "overkill" they haven't experienced what we saw and did on the 22nd.

[hemsteadc]

15 hours ago, RandyA said:

If Li-Ion what 48-volt pack are you using?

Relion 100ah Li.

[Hewhoknowslittle]

Randy,

I sent you a PM with my phone number, I need to know how to get  a hold of toyhauler to get your hitch picked up, we were in the KC area Friday, and will be in the area in the near future so I can get it picked up and ready to transport to you.

Roger

[Toyhauler]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:00 AM, Hewhoknowslittle said:

Randy,

I sent you a PM with my phone number, I need to know how to get  a hold of toyhauler to get your hitch picked up, we were in the KC area Friday, and will be in the area in the near future so I can get it picked up and ready to transport to you.

Roger

Hi Roger, PM in your mailbox with my contact information.

[ms60ocb]

On 3/8/2018 at 6:36 PM, RandyA said:

We are currently working on a compact escape ladder and methods to get up (on the dresser?), turned around and out the small bedroom window without diving head first.  Both the DW and I need to know where it is, how to get the window out and deploy the ladder blindfolded.  No time to read directions or experiment when a fire emergency occurs.  Also looking into some type of fire ax, lightweight fire blankets, masks and a 20# fire extinguisher.  If anyone considers this "overkill" they haven't experienced what we saw and did on the 22nd.

Looks as if Good Sams and Camping World needs to have a package to Market. I have the need.

Clay

[Pappy Yokum]

18 hours ago, ms60ocb said:

Looks as if Good Sams and Camping World needs to have a package to Market. I have the need.

Clay

(IMO) - Most of us have "the need"!  However, I don't think there is any "package' that will make doing the "window thing" easier!!

Someone had midgets in mind with that window!  (No disrespect intended to/for  "little people" ).

A "modification"  could be a larger window, which would really be a "combo" window/door (say 4' high) - to replace the window in the lavy almost down to (or at) floor level.   *If*  you have the separate *commode only*  lavy in your bedroom.

Nothing to climb on - or over! 

Open it and out..  Then , just a way to get to the ground - or sit down and out you go -  feet first.

Of course, the mod would depend on the framing structure and floor plans.

But a bargain -vs- Inhaling super-heated smoke and/or toxic products of combustion to exit via the main door.

Looking forward to hearing from the guy who (unfortunately) knows what may work and what won't.

 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Someone makes a ladder that mounts under the overhang area that flips or extends to the ground.  I'll search for it.

https://www.amazon.com/MOR-ryde-SP56137-Escape-Ladder/dp/B008O9CRU0

[RandyA]

We are slowly beginning to getting the Cambridge a little more to our liking.  We still have a long way to go to get it fully equipped and customized.  I am impressed with the quality of the original build and with care it should last many, many years.

I've been revisiting the fire and trying to remember all the fine details.  The dog got out but I cannot for the life of me remember if I carried him or if he just went!  One of the members in the Cedar Creek group commented after looking at the photos that he was concerned about leaving the awning deployed at night.  An outside fire could drop the awning and keep the door from opening.  I "suspect" that the door could be pushed enough to get a sharp knife into the fabric but it is just another obstacle to possibly deal with. I would like to post more pictures but have yet to find a good FREE posting site that works with 3rd party pics.  Photobucket now wants $99 a year for that privilege.  Nancy no longer leaves the dryer running when we are away and when we go to bed.  I have an escape ladder I had to modify that I will share at the ECR and then post pictures.  The escape window in the Cambridge is both high off the ground, small and over a tall dresser.  practice opening the window and swinging your body to a feet-first position will require practice.  One doesn't have time to read directions in an RV fire. I found fiberglass fire blankets on Amazon for about $30 each that could be a helpful addition to an emergency escape through fire blocking the doorway.  I've taken down the almost useless little fire extinguishers and replaced with 5# units so I have one in the basement, one at the doorway, one by the refrigerator and two in the bedroom.  I honestly can't say they are enough but we only have so many hands.  I would like to go to 10# or even 20# professional units but have concerns about properly handling them due to weight and where to mount them.  Nancy freaks out when she smells smoke from a campfire.  Metal items we thought we had saved are now black and are being thrown away and replaced.  The acid or whatever is in the smoke even eats stainless steel.

So many things I never thought about are now getting my attention.

Leaving Monday for Virginia.  I am hoping the non-airbag Reese hitch I have on the HDT will ride OK.  I may have to slow down a lot when in South Carolina and Virginia.  They seem to have worse Interstates than Florida, Georgia and North Carolina.

 

[SuiteSuccess]

Randy,

You might post some of the items you’re looking to replace and folks may be able to bring them to the ECR as a gift or for cheap price if they have spares.

[Sehc]

Yes. the after effects. Eventually you and wife will start to relax. knowing you have friends here should help. I only have a "B", but I am glad I have a door on each end. Our rule is keep them clear.

[Nigel]

Carl

I think Randy is qualified to host a fire safety seminar.

Nigel