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TIRES


NDBirdman

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Been reading a lot last couple days about tires.  Only have a couple questions.  My (used) 5th Wheel came with 16 inch light truck tires.  Do I need to stay with LT tires?  The previous (original) owner put on alum. rims with 16 inch tires.  Are the rims different between 16 inch LT and 16 inch ST tires?  My camper has a max weight of 14,080 lbs so I need tires rated for at-least 3,520lbs, right?  I plan on looking for tires rated at-least 3,600 lbs to be safe if so.  I also saw on thread that a member said it is illegal to put LT tires on RVs (Canada I think, should not affect me)?  I'm thinking of Goodyear or Michelin.  I have also seen some Cooper tires with these weight ratings, are they good for RVs?

 

I plan on going to town sometime tomorrow to search for tires.  Tires on the RV has a manufacture date of 2005 so yea, they getting changed in next couple weeks.  They looked great at the stealership but by the time we got home, there were some cracks on the tires along the rim, they gotta go.

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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Can't speak for everyone but a lot of us... myself included have gone over to Sailun S637 tires.  I have six on my TH and have hauled it from Snow Hill NC to Williams AZ and back and then some.  The price on these tires are way better than on the Goodyear and Michelin.  It's a matter of preference.  The Sailun tires are the only Chinese tires I think at this time that are ISO 9000 or better.  My TH is 18000 and I pull with a Volvo road tractor on average at 63-67 mph.  I run them at 110 psi.  My wheels are built to handle that pressure.  I believe that there is a thread on this forum or on the hdt forum that addresses this subject.  Worth a shot to take the time to look at it.  The Goodyear tires can run upwards of $600. A piece.  Sailun S637 around $155. Apiece.

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What is the weight rating of the axles?  Are they 6 lug or 8 lug wheels?  If they are only 6 lug, you will be OK to go with good LT tires.  Your weight on the axles is not the total weight of the trailer, as the hitch takes maybe 20% to 25% of the weight, so even at only 20% of the weight on your hitch, you will only have 2816 lbs on each tire, so 16 inch LT tires, rated at 3042 lbs each will be more than adequate. 

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I have a lot I can say on this, but I'll try to keep it short-ish. :lol:  As a Bridgestone Tire Safety Engineer who lived through the Firestone-Ford Explorer fiasco (I wrote a contributing essay for the depositions), there is something fundamental you have to keep in mind.  Tires are designed as part of a vehicles suspension package.  The vehicles suspension package no matter the type, are engineered to start with the first thing in the series of many mechanical parts that makes contact between the vehicle and the ground.  That is the tire.

Tires have different designations, weight/load indexes and ratings, speed ratings, and service ratings for that reason.  A tire's core construction technique differs in it's package design starting with the first layer in the cross section of a tire if you were to look at it, through to the exterior of the carcass you see exposed with your eyeballs.  

LT tires are designed for light truck suspensions.  P-metric radial tires are designed for passenger car suspensions, ST tires for trailer suspensions and so on.  I can break down all of the nuances in how a tire's size stamping and DOT coding works, but I'll spare you that for now as well.  :D  The various forces and dynamics each of the suspensions, vehicle loading, speed capability, etc are all accounted for in the design.  Specifically when you talk about LT vs ST tires, the core of the radial belt package is where the bulk of the engineering differences are at.  

Why and what is that difference?  A big part is the distance from the bead wire package to the start of the side shoulder supporting radial belt layers for one.  Next is the cap wedge between the upper shoulder and tread layers of the tire.  The ride quality difference between the two tire types is most impacted by the engineering difference at these points in tire construction.  Things like impact fractures (people tend to call them side wall bubbles) develop on tires that did not have proper vehicle suspension impact protection as a result of a tire taking road force blunt trauma and abuse.  Overheating at speed and load can also occur if the tires cap wedge can not dissipate heat fast enough, and this can cause separations of the bonding between the plies.  When these tires are engineered, they are accounting for the fact that a trailer axle's suspension is NOT going to protect the tires from impact abuse and lateral loading (think trailer sway because of mushy, shifting sidewalls), and dynamic speed and loading heating.   

An ST type trailer tire, it's core, belt package, bead wire roll package, liner, cap, and sidewall layers are all designed to account for an un-tuned suspension, and to withstand many different types of an un-tuned suspension. LT tires on the other hand, are designed to be protected in the total package of the vehicles suspension system, to work together with it and when you improperly apply tire types and vehicle types together bad things happen.  

What I've given you here is a glimpse of the decades of my experience has given me, and in ernest to keep this from becoming the start of your tire manufacturing engineering degree, I'll generally stop here.  With luck and at best if you do the wrong thing, nothing bad happens, but if something does happen, an accident investigator will look at everything, including your tires for contributions to the cause of a accident if the situation or type of accident warrants it.  I do not like seeing people give or spread misinformation on the one thing that keeps you, your family and your vehicle/property safe on the road.  ONE THING, ok maybe four, eight, twelve of those expensive round black doughnut looking things.  ^_^  People, please use the right tire type, with the correct, engineered ratings for your vehicles.

The Sailun S637 ST is a properly engineered, and rated tire for trailer suspension use.  The Goodyear Marathon is also, however expensive.  I'm exhausted, someone else an talk about wheel safety, bearing loading dynamics due to offsets, etc.  :P

 

2007 Freightliner SportChassis RHA-114

2016 Heartland Road Warrior 420

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2 hours ago, Rhyph said:

LT tires are designed for light truck suspensions.  ST tires for trailer suspensions and so on.

 

Here's a tire designed, built, promoted, and sold by Goodyear as a trailer tire with an LT designation. It's a commonly furnished tire with brand new RV's.

G614 RST

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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2 minutes ago, noteven said:

The tire placard on my trailer (a Carriage) specs LT tires.... 

noteven makes a good point. Despite what might be on the trailer now, look at the tire placard for what is specified. 

8 minutes ago, chirakawa said:

Here's a tire designed, built, promoted, and sold by Goodyear as a trailer tire with an LT designation. It's a commonly furnished tire with brand new RV's.

G614 RST

We upgraded the cheap tires on our trailer to the G614 tires for several reasons. First and foremost was that they are US made. Second, they are a heavier duty tire than what was on the trailer and the trailer rides much better on them than previously. (NOTE: you need to insure that your rims are rated for the higher air pressure). And last, if there is a blow out, I know from the experiences of others, that Goodyear will assist in or cover the damage caused to the RV by the tire. 

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11 hours ago, NDBirdman said:

My camper has a max weight of 14,080 lbs so I need tires rated for at-least 3,520lbs, right?  I plan on looking for tires rated at-least 3,600 lbs to be safe if so.  I also saw on thread that a member said it is illegal to put LT tires on RVs (Canada I think, should not affect me)?  I'm thinking of Goodyear or Michelin. 

Note that fifth wheel trailers carry a substantial amount of their weight (15 - 25%) on the hitch, so the tires will not be carrying 100% of the load. This fact has been overlooked in a couple of notorious articles condemning certain manufacturers for putting inadequate axles/tires on their rigs. 

That being said, having plenty of reserve capacity on your tires is a good thing. 

As noted above by others, several reputable manufacturers utilize LT tires on their fifth wheel trailers. Our Hitchhiker came from the factory with the G614 tires and they have performed flawlessly for 6 years of full-timing. On my previous trailer I had excellent service from Michelin XPS Rib, which is also an LT tire.

Mark & Teri

2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350

Mark & Teri's Travels

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Looked at this web site and it says:

This tire requires a special high load capacity wheel and high pressure valve stem

http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/235/80R16-Sailun-S637-Radial-Trailer-Tire

I am also going to look at the other aforementioned tires, this above is just an example talking about the rim.

 

How do I find the rating on my rims?  Is it stamped on the back of the rim, or do I need to remove the tire to find something?

 

In the next 2-3 years I will be using this RV as a weekend warrior, not full time.  I will probably tow it from ND to IN and FL one or 2 trips.  Other than that, probably no farther than 2-300 mile trips.  Maybe ND to WA a couple times.  I plan on selling it when the wife retires in less than 2 years and trading it in (or first selling it) and getting a new toy hauler to spend a lot of time snow-birding in.

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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Went outside and looked at tires and Manufacturer sticker.  Tires are Roughneck APs, 23585R16.  They are 4 ply so I am for sure replacing them.  Manu. date on tires are 9105, meaning they are 13 yrs old?  They gotta go.

Pic from RV sticker.  It shows it came from factory with LT23585R16 so I will stick with light truck tires, right?  This eliminates the Sailuns as contenders since they are ST rated?

 

 

ID.jpg

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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Doing some surfing, looking at 2 tires unless someone else can come up with a different tire.  Unisteel G614 RST and Michelin XPS Rib.  From prices, looks like Walmart is the best for Michelin.  The Unisteel, I can't find an online price for, may go to Sears to get price shortly.  I wonder if Sam's club has the Michelin and a better price than Wally World.

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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The Michelin is a Load Range E tire and seems fine for your application. Your tire sticker shows 80 psi which corresponds to Load Range E.

The G614 is a Load Range G tire, which is 110 psi max.  It is likely that your current rims are not rated for that pressure, and you probably don't need to step up to the load range unless you think that you are overloaded.

I think that a good quality tire like the Michelin XPS RIb would serve you well. It is rated for 3042 pounds per tire which puts you over 6000 pounds on a axle that is showing a 5200 pound rating. 

Mark & Teri

2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350

Mark & Teri's Travels

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3 minutes ago, mptjelgin said:

The Michelin is a Load Range E tire and seems fine for your application. Your tire sticker shows 80 psi which corresponds to Load Range E.

The G614 is a Load Range G tire, which is 110 psi max.  It is likely that your current rims are not rated for that pressure, and you probably don't need to step up to the load range unless you think that you are overloaded.

I think that a good quality tire like the Michelin XPS RIb would serve you well. It is rated for 3042 pounds per tire which puts you over 6000 pounds on a axle that is showing a 5200 pound rating. 

Thank-you.  Makes sense on the load rating.  I don't plan to run over loaded, I plan on loading up the truck and RV for a trip and run across a cat scale at the truck stop.  I would like to run a little lighter than max especially since we don't plan on doing any boon docking with this trailer if possible.  Next up, while I have the rims off, a good look at the brakes.  Michelin it is.  Again, thanks to you and all that gave input.

 

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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Before I bought my Class A I had a Cyclone toyhauler with three axels. Within the first 4 months 2of the original Chinese tires blew out, and 2more were ready to blow. I,bought 6 Mitchlin XPS Ribs. Road for 5 years and they still looked new. Almost never had to add air either. 

2015 Itasca Ellipse 42QD

2017 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Hard Rock Edition

2021 Harley Street Glide Special 

Fulltimer

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I went with the hercules. I recommend considering 17.5" wheels and tires. Much higher load ratings and commercial tire availability. https://simpletire.com/Catalog/product/41189?stmodel=h-902&stcategory=other&sttype=commercial&gclid=Cj0KCQiA5t7UBRDaARIsAOreQtiJQYwuLCr7K5cXtoZSLTjBnC_Q5-XS879T_5hXHpU0gOPFemHsfbEaAhLREALw_wcB

 

2003 International Eagle 9200i, Cummins ISX, Freedomline

2007 Teton Scottsdale XT4

 

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Went looking today, Michelin dealer did not have them.  They are checking on prices and availability for me.  Not a very big town here, might take a little bit to get them.  Good thing I have plenty of time to do this, still have ice/snow on the ground and a big storm is supposed to hit us this weekend.  Joy-joy.... LOL

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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In RV trailer model years 2005 - 2007 a great many of their manufacturers selected the LT235/85R16E tires for Original Equipment fitments on 6000# GAWR axles. 

Their load capacities - 3042# @ 80 PSI - needed very close monitoring to insure they were always inflated to the 80 PSI.

Many owners found that the heavy duty steel cased tires were much more durable for replacements. Those brands were Michelin & Bridgestone. 

It’s the trailer manufacturer’s prerogative to select whatever tires they deem appropriate for OE fitments. Once certified to the vehicle they become the benchmark.    

Many ST tire manufacturer's are building like sized tires sized ST235/85R16E. Their physical dimensions are very similar to the LT tires. However, their load capacity is much higher at 3640# @ 80 PSI. Almost all ST name brands provide them.

 

38' fiver - Dodge Dually

AKA: FastEagle

USN Retired - DOD Retired - SSA Retired

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I don't care what anyone says. The first time I have tire problems going to LT tires. Bought some Carlisle tires once. Larger diameter and 400# each rating higher. Went out 5 times and had 3 blow outs. Originals (can't remember name) were 12 yrs. old and underrated with lots of miles. Heard worse stories than mine. Trailer now bought used with 8 yr. tires had a couple blowouts. Called manufacture said still use those tires. Bought the same and went out 3 times and had 2 blow outs. Can't believe how thin the sidewall on a ST tire. I chech the tire pressure religiously and manufacturing dates. Those steel belts can do some damage when they blow. Thinking last ones where Tow Max

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I carry about 2300-2400lbs/tire on the LT 235 R250’s. What I like about them is Q speed rating and the way the sidewall profile is more upright.  I can cruise at 75 if I want to. 

"Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update:  I ordered the tires through Walmart after extensive searching/pricing.  They gave the best over-all price by $600.  Well, best price but service?  LOL... FIrst set of 4, they blame FedX and FedX blames them.  Somewhere the tires got lost, I hope someone is enjoying them.... Anywayz, Walmart ordered me a replacement set.  I received 3 out of 4 yesterday.  The other one is now coming from the opposite side of the country, due here next Monday.  That's fine as I won't be putting them on for a couple weeks.  Checking the date code, they were manufactured fall 2017.  Darn near refused them but tired of the hassle.  The date code better be the same or newer on the last tire or I will refuse it.  All in all, I should have went with a local dealer, and will next time albeit a few hundred $$ more.

I got Michelin XPS Rib LT235/85R16 E BLK (3 so far...LOL)  Same size currently on the camper and called for by manufacturer's sticker.  These should last a few years, atleast or as long as we own this camper.

 

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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2 hours ago, remoandiris said:

Were you going to refuse them because of their manufacture date?

Yes.  If I own this camper 5 years, I will change out the tires.  From what I've read, ppl change from 5 to 7 years of tire age.  I would rather err on the side of caution than not replace and tear up the side of the trailer with old/blow tires.  These are already 6 months old so I will only get 4.5 years service from them.  To me, that is not getting my $$ worth out of them.  Am I wrong?

2002 Fifth Avenue RV (RIP) 2015 Ram 3500 Mega-cab DRW(38k miles), 6.7L Cummins Diesel, A668RFE, 3.73, 14,000 GVWR, 5,630 Payload, 27,300 GCWR, 18,460 Max Trailer Weight Rating(For Sale) , living in the frigid north, ND.

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