1st time RVr

[charrito]

Hello all, new to the site and new to RVing.  Have been doing a little bit of research as I'm looking for a TT for occasional travel.  The intended use is to travel over long holiday weekends, maybe a week or two occasionally.  It's just my wife, two small dogs, and myself.  I'm pulling with a 2016 Chevy Silverado LT 1500 with the 5.3 V8 RWD.

For the TT I'm looking to stay around 22' and I've narrowed it down to a few:

1. Forest River Flagstaff Microlite 21FBRS (Rockwood 2104S)
2. Forest River Flagstaff Microlite 21DS (Rockwood 2109S)
3. Livinlite Camplite CL16DBS
4. Forest River Flagstaff Microlite 19FBS (Rockwood 1909S)

Very little difference between these, mostly layout and those with a bigger slide-out weigh a little more.  So my questions are these:

1. Between 21FBRS and 19FBS, the only difference is the bed facing either NS or EW.  This saves a foot in length.  Is that extra foot worth it?
2. Advantages/disadvantages between U-dinette or sofa & table (21FBRS vs 21DS).
3.  Are there any other TT that I should be considering?

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[Yarome]

Welcome!

Out of those... and strictly my own personal preferences... I would prefer the 21FBRS. With 2 people it's nice having your own walkways around the bed and you'll pick up just a tiny bit more wardrobe space with 2 split over the single  (in the 19). I also like the additional kitchen counter space and the longer narrower table. Even though the slide doesn't go out as far (and will reduce the overall dry weight) space utilization is much improved over a U-dinette. That back row is really rather worthless unless you plan to be using the area as a second bed. You also don't have to "crab slide" into the cushions to set down for supper. However... you'll also loose the storage space in the dinette underseats.

TV is about at the bottom of my priorities list but even so... the ent. center space is smaller in the FBRS, but it's placement is much improved. I also like the rear entry door and wardrobe placement. Great place to kick off your boots and hang your coat without having to treak into the bedroom. It also provides a bit more privacy seeing that it doesn't let all the onlookers or cold winds right into the bedroom when you open the door.

The other issue, for me, with the 19 is the cargo capacity. You'll pick up almost 500lbs more in the 21's.

Minor niceties... 2' more awning. More "user friendly" shower. Reefer more conveniently located to the kitchen in the FBRS.

For a weekend getaway'er... not too shabby!

2016 Chevy 1500... V8... occassional towing...  with a decent weight distribution hitch and at least a bolt on sway bar... you're good to go.

[FL-JOE]

Welcome to the forum and RVing in general.  

My very first concerns I considered when looking for our first RV was weights and if my TV (tow vehicle) would be able to safely pull it.

You have a 2016 Chevy Silverado LT 1500 with the 5.3 V8 RWD.   What is it rated to flat tow?  What type of hitch weight can you put on it?  Are your current tires rated heavy enough for the additional towing weight that will be placed on them?   Armed with these figures then get the manufacturer listed weights for the brands/models of TT you are considering.  I would add a minimum of 700 to 900 pounds for water, propane, food, personal belongings, extra camping gear.  I'm only guessing on the additional weight because you said it would be used for weekend trips and maybe an occasional longer run.  We actually haul over 3,000 pounds of extra junk in our current RV, so it can add up quickly.

Take your time and do your research.  If purchasing new without a trade you should be able to buy at 25% below MSRP, sometimes 30%.  If buying used you can look up values on several sites and go from there.  Good hunting!

 

[Yarome]

19 minutes ago, FL-JOE said:

What is it rated to flat tow?  What type of hitch weight can you put on it? 

His V8 would have around 11-11.5k rated tow capacity. A moderate weight distribution hitch would be around a 10k and the heaviest max gross weight on the trailers listed would be 6k or under.

Cargo capacity is certainly something to be concerned with. The 19FBS only has around 870lbs... on a good day... which would be a bit of a challenge to stay under. The 21's about 1475lbs. That's still pretty slim, but much more doable in a weekender rig.

[charrito]

Thanks all.  Yes, the truck will do fine & I'm installing the Firestone Air Ride helper springs to help with leveling.  I've already done all the calculations and I should be OK with any of these.  My GVWR is 7k and GCVWR is 15k, Payload of 1.9k.  So based on this and other figures I'm calculating a max trailer GVWR of about  9.5k, which all of these are under, averaging 5.7k.

I am thinking of purchasing new, and these that I have listed are all around $20k on RVtrader, so looking to stay under that.  Maybe towards the end of the year and hit around $15k with 'last year's model'?

I should mention I'm in no rush to buy anything so I am definitely open to considering other models.  I do like the R-Pods as well but they are smaller.  I think they're still worth considering.

[Grassy]

What type of tires are you running ?

[charrito]

17 minutes ago, Grassy said:

What type of tires are you running ?

The stock Conti's that are worthless, but once I'm done with those I'm switching over to Michelin's Defender LTX.

[Grassy]

Nice looking sneaker.. a quick look didn't tell me the specs..

I think I would want a minimum of a 4 ply .. stiffer ride but will handle the TT's  side / side action. 

I went up to an 8 ply because I was hauling a 25 foot TT..

[charrito]

16 minutes ago, Grassy said:

Nice looking sneaker.. a quick look didn't tell me the specs..

I think I would want a minimum of a 4 ply .. stiffer ride but will handle the TT's  side / side action. 

I went up to an 8 ply because I was hauling a 25 foot TT..

These are the specs per their website, but my size is not on their spec sheet.  275/55R20 113T.  Should be close enough with a close-enough size.

 

 

specs-defender-ltx-m-s.pdf

[Yarome]

If your GCWR is 15k then your target Trailer GVWR would be more in the 8k range. You could go a little higher... maybe 8.8k since ~800lbs of that would be hitch weight and come off the cargo capacity. There's "room" for it if your truck isn't loaded much. 

Kinda moot though if the largest you're looking at is under 6k. Which is great so you have a decent safety margin rather than pushing max ratings. With the 6k you'll have ~600lbs in hitch weight... add in the hitch itself... you should have a reserve cargo capacity of around 1.2k for passenger/s, full fuel and gear. That's a pretty decent amount to work with.

Depending on how much you plan to load into the back of your truck and the rear axle rating... you're likely to get by just fine without installing the air ride.

600lbs on the hitch.... a weight distribution hitch shouldn't have much of a problem levelling you out. At least... I would load the trailer and hitch it to see before going to the expense of an air ride right out of the gate. Your dime, but for just the occasional long weekend that's a bit of change to drop on something you may never actually use much... if at all.

I hadn't realized your GCWR was that low. Still... more than plenty doable.

[charrito]

Oh, the air ride is going in for sure and it was only about $300 and I can install it myself.  I do occasionally load a couple of dirt bikes in the bed of the truck, so that's about another 400lbs for 2 bikes.  Not always, but it's nice to have the option to do so.  I usually just haul my bike, but it's nice to have the extra capacity when friends don't bring their own haulers.

I'd just rather be prepared now for a little more weight than have to scramble later to find a solution.

[Kirk W]

Welcome to the Escapee forums!

After many years of RV use in a series of RVs, let me agree with the comments about going to a trailer that has a bed position that allows access to 3 sides of it and not only 1 side. I have traveled with the 1 side access and it was a nuisance when we were young and just don't work now that we are not so young.  I would highly doubt that the wife will be happy for long if you don't go that way. If you choose the CampLite I suggest the CL21BHS as a much better choice. Your truck should be rated to tow about 11K# so the weight will not be an issue and with tongue weights of less than 500#, I can't see any reason to even think about adding airbags. You probably should tow with an equalizer hitch which will take care of any leveling needed. 

As to the brands that you are looking at, I am neither a fan nor a critic of the products from Forest River, so long as you understand that they are designed more with cost in mind than quality. They build an inexpensive line that would probably serve you fairly well for the light use that you suggest. But I would not buy from them without doing some comparing to similarly priced RVs from other manufacturers. The LivinLite line is one that I have very little knowledge of but I did find several sites that review them and I suggest that you take some time and look those over. It seems to be pretty well rated. 

The CampLite Trailer         RVT reviews      RV Guide                   Aluminum Camper Forum                      

Here are some for the Rockwood but I didn't find many. 

RVT Rockwood                 PO'ed customer                 

 

[sandsys]

I agree with everything Yarome said with the addition of the toilet setting cornerwise which makes more room for feet and knees. If it was me, within your list I would definitely go with the 21FBRS. But I didn't find an interior height which might be an issue depending on how tall you are. I do like the tank sizes but you need to think about water weight as you are packing. I would probably pack everything except water then drive the trailer over a scale to help decide how much to fill the fresh water tank.

Linda Sand

[charrito]

8 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

Welcome to the Escapee forums!

After many years of RV use in a series of RVs, let me agree with the comments about going to a trailer that has a bed position that allows access to 3 sides of it and not only 1 side. I have traveled with the 1 side access and it was a nuisance when we were young and just don't work now that we are not so young.  I would highly doubt that the wife will be happy for long if you don't go that way. If you choose the CampLite I suggest the CL21BHS as a much better choice. Your truck should be rated to tow about 11K# so the weight will not be an issue and with tongue weights of less than 500#, I can't see any reason to even think about adding airbags. You probably should tow with an equalizer hitch which will take care of any leveling needed. 

As to the brands that you are looking at, I am neither a fan nor a critic of the products from Forest River, so long as you understand that they are designed more with cost in mind than quality. They build an inexpensive line that would probably serve you fairly well for the light use that you suggest. But I would not buy from them without doing some comparing to similarly priced RVs from other manufacturers. The LivinLite line is one that I have very little knowledge of but I did find several sites that review them and I suggest that you take some time and look those over. It seems to be pretty well rated. 

The CampLite Trailer         RVT reviews      RV Guide                   Aluminum Camper Forum                      

Here are some for the Rockwood but I didn't find many. 181RB

RVT Rockwood                 PO'ed customer                 

 

Thanks for the input.  the CampLite will put me at about another $10k so that's something to consider as well.  I have also been looking at the KZ Escape 181RB, and the  Escape 180QB, but a few things we didn't like is that there are no power outlets near the kitchen counter, and they don't have the larger freezer. 

They are also single axle which I'm still debating as it's less expensive to have to service a single axle, but consider the safety of 2 in the event of a blowout, and the weight that they can handle.

Also note that the Sportsmen line is another KZ model that uses the same numbers, 181RB and 181QB, with a few differences.

We also saw the Dutchmen Kodiak 185MB at the RV show and really liked it, I just haven't really researched it.

[sandsys]

I took at quick look at each of the new three you mentioned and found myself thinking this:

Look at the photo of the bed in the 181RB. You'll both have to crawl from the foot of the bed to the head before you can get under the covers.

Look at the photo of the dinette in the 180QB. If you sit in the seat with its back to you where are you going to put your left leg?

In the 185MB you can really only watch TV while in bed. Which might be OK with you.

Linda Sand

 

[Yarome]

Of those three... my first thought was to say that I wouldn't consider any of them for anything more than a very short range overnight rig in fair weather conditions. However, I know any number of folks that RV quite happily in much less successfully so who am I to talk. 

I would suggest though that you looks past the spec sheets, employ your common sense and be very mindful of cargo capacities and other limitations against actual capabilities and your expectations.

Mfg's build RV's to entice money out of potential buyers pockets. That's no guarantee that the cargo capacities and other limitations are always sufficient to support the specs on the brochure.

Going back to the air rides... that makes a little more sense if you're going to be pushing the max load ratings on your Chevy from time to time. 

 

 

[charrito]

4 hours ago, Yarome said:

Of those three... my first thought was to say that I wouldn't consider any of them for anything more than a very short range overnight rig in fair weather conditions. However, I know any number of folks that RV quite happily in much less successfully so who am I to talk. 

Completely understand.  I'm a guy who's happy sleeping in the bed of the truck with a bedmat, a cot, and a SoftTopper.  I'm 43 now, but as I'm getting older it's nice to be a little bit more comfortable, especially after a rough dirtbike ride.  And, the wife will only come along if there's a bathroom.  So for a few short trips here and there throughout the year, I don't want to go with anything larger.  I'd also have to pay to store it somewhere and the rates here in Dallas are insane.  I'd have to store it outside of the metromess to get a decent rate.

BTW, I like your quote!  I make it a point to walk REAAAALY wide around the back of the truck!  

[charrito]

5 hours ago, sandsys said:

I took at quick look at each of the new three you mentioned and found myself thinking this:

Look at the photo of the bed in the 181RB. You'll both have to crawl from the foot of the bed to the head before you can get under the covers.

Look at the photo of the dinette in the 180QB. If you sit in the seat with its back to you where are you going to put your left leg?

In the 185MB you can really only watch TV while in bed. Which might be OK with you.

Linda Sand

 

Good catch on the 180QB, that's why I'm here asking questions!  I wonder if that piece is removable, it would only make sense.  I"ll have to go find some videos or a dealer that has one nearby.

And the 185MB, not a problem at all.  I don't watch TV at home, and it's the last thing I want to do when I'm traveling.

 

[Kirk W]

6 hours ago, charrito said:

the CampLite will put me at about another $10k so that's something to consider as well. 

Just keep in mind that when quality rises, so too does the price. Based on the reviews, I'd suspect this one is significantly better quality.

6 hours ago, charrito said:

I have also been looking at the KZ Escape 181RB, and the  Escape 180QB, but a few things we didn't like is that there are no power outlets near the kitchen counter, and they don't have the larger freezer. 

We currently own a 2012 Sportsman Classic that is very similar to the 180QB. The kitchen is exactly like that and I believe that you would find a 120V outlet on the right end of the cabinet, forward of the sink. The smaller refrigerator is inconvenient as is the lack of countertop space in all of the smaller travel trailers, but it can be managed if you are flexible. There are experts on forums that will tell you that what you are looking at will not work and we hear that often. The fact is that you need to match the RV to the people who use it. We have spent as long as 5 consecutive months in our 19' Sportsman and we plan to be out in it next summer for 4 continuous months. There are some people who are able to live in a pup-tent while others can't live comfortably in a 40'+ RV with 5 slides. If you and your spouse believe that you can do it, keep a positive attitude and you can. 

On the single, versus tandem axle issue, lighter weight trailers do fine with a single axle, as ours has. The main advantage of a lightweight trailer having two axles is that handling is better. Our Sportsman has a single axle and when we towed it with an SUV I found that the single axle did make it less comfortable in towing due to the tendency for it to rock (front to back) in rough stretches and dips. Since we upgraded our tow vehicle to a 2500 truck the issue is pretty much gone away due to the stiffer ride of the truck. Over the years I have towed many different trailers and I believe that the single axle trailer makes it far quicker to notice when a tire goes down because of the lack of a second tire to carry the weight. I consider that a positive thing as I stop much sooner. 

It is very important to remember that we can easily tell you what you should buy since we do not have to pay for any of it. Long ago I discovered that Pam & I can be happy and comfortable in RVs that are both smaller and less expensive than many people consider their minimum. We lived for 12 years in a 36' motorhome that had no slides, even though many experts told us that it could not be done. We each must balance our needs and desires against the budget we are comfortable with. If you were planning to live in the RV as your only home, I would give much different advice than I do now. All RVs depreciate in value more quickly than automobiles so highest quality may not be justified for occasional use. 

[charrito]

Completely agree Kirk that ultimately I am the one making the decision, but it's always good to hear suggestions from others who have more experience, and it's very much appreciated.  I haven't been in a trailer since my teens, so really wouldn't know what to look for in terms of construction, details, etc.

As for the space, we're definitely OK with trailers around the 22' mark.  I would consider a few of the teardrops out there that have everything we really need, but that would definitely be a bit more crowded.  The whole idea behind buying a trailer came from my wife wanting a comfortable place to sleep and a bathroom.  Those were really her only 2 conditions.

We're planning on renting a few of the models that we're interested in to see how that works out, before we commit to buying anything.  I'm not really in a hurry, so I don't have the pressure to buy something 'now'. 

And good info on the axle, I had not thought about it that way.  On the 180QB we didn't find any outlets, at least on the model that they had at the RV show.  Maybe it was specific to that particular build.  First thing my wife said was, where am I going to plug in the coffee maker!?

 

[Kirk W]

18 minutes ago, charrito said:

The whole idea behind buying a trailer came from my wife wanting a comfortable place to sleep and a bathroom.

 

1

Pam reached that point before I did also, but I can't complain as she went out with me in tents and then pop-up trailers for years before that and even spent 2 weeks on horseback with me. Don't tell anyone, but I too want a nice bed and bathroom now that my number of birthdays has gotten up there, but I still blame it on her.  

The thought of renting an RV first is a very good idea. It could save you a lot of money later. 

[sandsys]

10 hours ago, charrito said:

Good catch on the 180QB, that's why I'm here asking questions!  I wonder if that piece is removable, it would only make sense.  I"ll have to go find some videos or a dealer that has one nearby.

I suspect it is a wheel well. In my custom van I almost placed my desk over a wheel well which would have left insufficient space for my feet. Lesson learned.

Linda

[Grassy]

"Just keep in mind that when quality rises, so too does the price."

As an addendum, as the quality rises generally speaking,  so does the weight.

[hockey11]

We just purchased the Micro Lite 21fbrs and traded our Windjammer 21ft with a rear slideout.  The main reason we switched was the layout.  You do not need to put the slide out on the fbrs to move around.  You can get to your bed, bathroom and use the kitchen with the slide in. That was very important to us and the way we camp.  We are looking forward to using the new camper and one day full time in it.  Good luck with your decision.  

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, hockey11 said:

We are looking forward to using the new camper and one day full time in it.  Good luck with your decision.  

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