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natetate100

1995 international 4700

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Hey everyone new to the sight. I have been thinking about upgrading to a 5th wheel around the 24k pound area and I was looking at a 1995 international 4700 crew cab. Has 200k miles with the t444e motor. Are they good trucks? Also thinking about making this my full time vehicle and I will have a small car for the wife. What is your thoughts. 

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I have a 99 4700 Stalick conversion with the DT530E (300HP) with Allison 6 speed automatic..  Stability and braking are great, fuel mileage is a bit disappointing.  We can run at 100km/60mph all day pulling 18500lbs on the flats but the hills make it suck.  The 444 is the equivalent of a the 7.3l in Ford trucks, there may be more performance enhancements than what are available to be.

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Does it ever have a problem pulling the hills? Not sure what the gears are on this one but should be decently low I would think. It also has the Allison automatic as well. Not sure the hp on the 444 but I'm sure it's not 300. Probably can be upgraded, but I worry about that because of overpowering the tranny or something.

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My rear end is around 4.44.  It's not like its not going to make it to the top but it won't be at the speed limit, lol.  Safety is the key with the truck compared to my one ton duallies.  I had the brake controller fail on the International and the truck had no problems stopping the trailer on truck brakes alone whereas with the dually you better have time to run through the gears if you need to stop in a hurry.  The cool factor is high though, lol.

IH Jewel.jpg

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Very pretty truck! What kind of fuel mileage you get empty and pulling if you don't mind me asking. Would you use it as a daily driver? I work construction type jobs and that is what I'm wanting to use it for. I sometimes pull my camper 1000 plus miles then I'm there for 3 to 6 months usually. So I will drive it back and forth to the job and to stores some as well.

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I also towed a 5th with a IH4400 DT530/Allison 3060.  It was a '98 Wiers Towmaster conversion.  We pulled full time with it for 10-11 yrs and put a few thousand shy of 300,000 miles on it.  It was also our daily driver.  As a daily driver it was much easier to handle than our previous Dodge dually primarily to much better wheel cut and placement.  Size wise, it was a few inches longer than the Dodge but 2 and 3" shorter than than the Ford and Chevy dually crew cabs.  There was never a question of any sort as to whether it could pull our 20K 5th over any of the grades we encountered.  As I recall the biggest grade we hauled up and down was 18%.  You could easily pull even after a complete stop  mid grade.  Just use the appropriate gear.  That doesn't mean you'd top every grade at 65mph.  A long grade might take you down to 45-50. I sold the rig in 2011.

As I recall, the DT530 was 275hp with no chipping and I believe the 444 is 225hp.  Ours was a great truck and my wife loved driving it more than any car we ever had.  She especially liked taking it grocery shopping and the like and watching the old guys -- who'd be sitting on the outdoor benches waiting for their wives to finish shopping -- wawaltching their faces as she pulled into a handicapped space at a Publix and climbed out with her cane or walker.  She'd come back and tell me about having to pick their false teeth off the ground for them or having them walk over and ask "you drive that!!??" (pretty obvious) or "Can I look inside?" etc.  Remembering her behind the wheel sporting a huge smile is still a fond memory.

http://2nsza1d.jpg

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Thanks for your reply. I bet it was a look for sure. They are beautiful trucks as it is and then a lady driving probably blew their mind completely. Lol I think I'm going to get it, still a little hard thinking about selling my pretty lifted 1/2 ton though, debating on keeping it as a side truck but then again I don't really have a need for 3 trucks. I have to keep my old f250 because it has the 7.3 in it I heard you cant use all the parts but some stuff match up. 

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Also have a IH4700 with the DT530.  2001 with the Stalick bed.  Paperwork shows 300/860.  I'd guess the 444 is more around what was quoted, 225HP.  Pretty sluggish for hauling a big 5er.  Although there likely would be performance upgrades available for it as it was in Fords for a long time.  The 530 can handle some upgrades like LP injection mostly because it is a more upgraded motor to begin with.  The 466s are not so tolerant of upgrades, as I have ready. 

I have read some info on using LP injection on these and it sounds to me that it would help for those occasions where you would need the boost for mountain climbing.  If you arent in a hurry, downshift and take your time, you'll get there.

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The main difference between the 530 and the 444, besides HP,/torque is that the 530 is a wet sleeved engine capable of an in frame rebuild vs the 'throw away' 444.  The 530 should be able to go 5-700,000 miles before an in frame followed by another 5-700,000.  Not a mechanic but that's my understanding.

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I thought the 444 was a 500k plus engine as well? I have an old 7.3 f250 with 313k on it and the engine runs great no problems ever and I have abused it some. Pulling across scales at 30k with it loaded. I know I know I was dumb for that and took some risk. I didn't know it then but I do now. But the engine just keeps on rolling the rest of the truck is not doing so well though.

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I had a 1996 4700 with a 444E it was a service truck with a crane, the truck weighed about 19K.    It was gutless on its own, I bought a PPP tuner for it, it was honestly unnoticeable.    I drove I80 through Wyoming and was getting passed by the slow semis. up the grades.   I did tow a 18K trailer with on flat land with no issues, the engine is just marginal for heavy loads.

 

Steve 

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A service truck, I wonder if that would be a bit different than a truck like this one. Did they make different models of the 4700 kind of like Freightliner has the sports chassis? Or are these all pretty well the same? I'm getting a bit worried about this engine now about talked myself out of getting it. Lol the guy has it listed for $17,500 I may offer say 11k would that be a good enough deal on it? I doubt he will take it considering the difference but worth a try maybe? 

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This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

I don't think you're going to be happy with that purchase when you come to hills to climb. You will slow down to 30-40 MPH. I don't have an IH but almost bought one twice. They're nice looking trucks but that engine is the same as one in a F-250-350-450-550 with the 7.3PSD.

The 530 engine would be much better but stay away from the 444. You won't be happy.

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4 hours ago, travelinbob said:

This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

I don't think you're going to be happy with that purchase when you come to hills to climb. You will slow down to 30-40 MPH. I don't have an IH but almost bought one twice. They're nice looking trucks but that engine is the same as one in a F-250-350-450-550 with the 7.3PSD.

The 530 engine would be much better but stay away from the 444. You won't be happy.

I must say, as I continue to read about the need to fly up grades at high speed, I'm beginning to think I'm from a different planet. I'm MUCH more concerned about economy and reliability than the occasional drag race up a 5% grade. The few minutes it takes to get to the top makes virtually no difference in my day's enjoyment. I guess I just don't care that much, but I DO understand there are those who do. :-) YMMV.. Jay

Edited by Jaydrvr
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I don't mind the slow down myself, all I'm worried about is overworking the motor. I know in my old f250 I loved the 7.3 I would think the lower gears it would pull a lot better in the mdt. I don't want it to big down on a hill unloaded though.

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On this site its pretty much about biggest 5er, baddest truck, most solar panels,ect.

I know you can't have enough power, to much sq footage, whatever.

My first MDT was a 99 GMC C7500 3126b Cat. 250 hp 660 tq pulling a 40'

Newmar Mountainare. About 20k#.

My MDT now is a Freightliner M2-106 ISC 330 hp 100 tq. Plenty fast.

Anyway if your blowing up the mountain no telling what you might miss in the trees, Deer, Elk, Waterfalls.

 

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18 hours ago, natetate100 said:

I don't mind the slow down myself, all I'm worried about is overworking the motor. I know in my old f250 I loved the 7.3 I would think the lower gears it would pull a lot better in the mdt. I don't want it to big down on a hill unloaded though.

No I really don't mind the slow uphill climb at 30-40 MPH with my 2001 F550 with the 7.3 and 4:88 rear end . The problem is the 4 speed tranny (3speed w/OD) Maybe if it had a 6 speed like the newer trucks it would be a whole different story. My RPMs are right up there in 2nd gear climbing up some grades. Pulling a 20,000# fifth wheel also contributes to the problem. I'm near the 30K limit with my truck.

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I guess IF you live and drive primarily in the flat lands a few hills going slow is no big deal.    In the areas I travel the annoyance factor is only part of it, you will slow down just going through rolling hills.     The MPG will be abysmal and, in some places you won't be able to pass that truck ahead of you that is even slower than you.     The older MDT's were designed as vocational trucks, doing municipal work or service trucks etc.     They are not speced or equipped like a pick up, they ride harshly and, are utilitarian regardless of the "customizing" they received.    

A Sport Chassis or other newer MDT with ample power and better integrated air suspension are far different from the MDT's of the late 1990's       The cheap old tow haulers out there for sale are cheap for a reason, unless you test one with your trailer you won't know until it's too late IMHO.

 

Steve    

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I haven't followed MDTs for 6-7 yrs now but if it hasn't changed too much, when someone orders new, they spec out a model such as a Sport Chassis etc and then spec out the motor/tranny/rear end etc that fits their use and pocket book.  I only have so much money or money is no object type of thing.  I only need to spec this truck out for flat city driving or for flat highway driving or for cross country mountain driving.  So when you buy used, you buy whatever the original owner spec'd.  So, again if things haven't changed, a general question like 'does the new sports chassis go faster as well" just doesn't work.  Some will, some won't.  JMO  Even if you don't mind going slower, you don't want a truck spec'd for city delivery or flat country driving.  You probably won't be happy with anything less than 275-300hp with 700# +/- torque.  You probably also will want some sort of air ride (besides air seats).  Many MDTs will have a 15000# rear axle which with only 3-4000# of pin weight will mean a lot of abuse to your pin (you'll want an air hitch) and an equal amount of abuse on your butt if you don't have good air suspension.

 

Edited by avan

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Avan, nice to see your pic of the 'farmall'. It's still going strong.  We are using a Volvo for the toyhauler now, but the folks that have it now are sure happy with it. Mark

Edited by Little

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So nice to hear!  I often wonder if it is still on the road or if retired, like me.  I really liked that truck.  You have a more comfy riding hauler now though.

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