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mr. cob

What is the best brake controller for electric brakes when towing with HDT

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Howdy All,

Now that I am building the Pete and doing things my way and not working around what others have done I am trying to do it right the first time.  I have the regular electric brakes on my toy hauler and don't plan to do any up grades such as going to disks with that in mind I am open to brake controller advise.  I seem to remember something at one of the rally classes about a brake controller that many liked but that was no longer being made or sold, is there something out there that works that's still available?  Thanks.

Dave

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Hayes air activated unit. Simple and works. I have one and although I don't use it. Leave it on for other campers if I need to tow.

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3 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

Hayes air activated unit. Simple and works. I have one and although I don't use it. Leave it on for other campers if I need to tow.

Howdy Glenn,

Thanks I'll google it and see what I can find out.

Dave

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2 minutes ago, Mark and Dale Bruss said:

There always is the Resource Guide: Electric Brake Controllers.

Or maybe it is time to retire the Resource Guide

Howdy Mark,

Thanks for the tip, I ask questions cuzz I am to darn stupid to find things using the search function, I never thought to use the resource guide.

Dave

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Howdy All,

Again, THANKS for the replies.  Reading about the Hayes and the Direct Link, I think in my application the Hayes would be the better unit. 

I have found TWO units, one model the "Hayes 100400C Air Actuated Brake Controller" is selling on Amazon for 253 dollars, the other version "Hayes 100400B Air Actuated Brake Controller" is going for 318 bucks.  I have read everything I can find which is not much and can't see what the difference is. 

I'll be installing this on a 2001 Pete, if that makes any difference I don't know, advise is appreciated.  Thanks.

Dave

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36 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

On Hayes website list as a 100400C. Believe they all the same.

Howdy Glenn,

I just sent an email to Hayes customer support and asked them what the difference was between the controllers.  In my reading I found on article that described the 100400B as being able to control up to SIX brakes, the 100400C is said to control up to EIGHT brakes.

Therefore I am "ASSUMING" that a 100400C would work on my triple axle trailer.  It's cheaper then the  100400B, however I'll wait until I have an answer from Hayes before making the decision to buy.  I'll post the answer I get from Hayes when they reply.  If a 100400C will do the job at a lower cost I don't see a reason to pay more for a product that offers less.

ATTENTION Mark, Its information like this that is sometimes NOT available in the resource guide as it is not updated that often, if my "ASSUMPTION" proves to be true, can this new information be added to the resource guide?

Dave

EDITED to clarify some information.

Edited by mr. cob

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The amperage required to run 8 brakes naturally would be more than 6. I would err on the side of purchasing the bigger Hayes unit, as to allow a little more electrical capacity to keep the unit from perhaps getting hot. 

I have always used the Hayes unit, simple and reliable. 

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2 minutes ago, beyerjf said:

The amperage required to run 8 brakes naturally would be more than 6. I would err on the side of purchasing the bigger Hayes unit, as to allow a little more electrical capacity to keep the unit from perhaps getting hot. 

I have always used the Hayes unit, simple and reliable. 

Howdy Jeff,

Thanks for your reply.  When reading the specs at first I was confused, don't worry that's a normal condition for me, as the more powerful unit is cheaper then what I am assuming to be an older style unit.  Reading the installation instructions it talks about a two way check valve being installed in the air system but I am not having any luck finding such a critter, can you offer any assistance in this regard?

Dave

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I put no check valve in mine. Also a check valve will not work. The more air the more brake. When back off pedal air backs off controller. Check valve would defeat that

Edited by GlennWest

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He's talking about the double-check. Know your air brake system.

When the supply line is "Tee'd" into the line going to the Brake Application gauge, the two way check isn't needed.

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5 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

He's talking about the double-check. Know your air brake system.

When the supply line is "Tee'd" into the line going to the Brake Application gauge, the two way check isn't needed.

Howdy Darryl,

"I" am still learning about the air brake system.  I want to make sure I am properly understanding what you just wrote, so if I tee into the "brake application gauge" and "IF" for some reason that supply line to the Hayes controller were to LEAK or the original air line to the gauge were to LEAK after the tee before it gets to the gauge this would NOT cause a problem that a check valve would solve?  The last thing I want is a leak in the air system that could have been prevented by use of a check valve.  Just want to make sure I understood you correctly.

Dave

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I was unsure about getting the right line. I pulled off line on guage area. No air. Depressed brake pedal, got air. Harder  I mashed the more air. Teed into it.

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This one is a double check, AKA shuttle valve.

Shuttle+valve+working.jpg

Its purpose in air-brake life is to send out the higher of the two pressures, so that way if you have a circuit failure then the higher side air still goes out (ie: you still have trailer brakes).  This valve is already inside the tractor protection valve on tractors so you don't need to add it.  There is a double checked port on the TP valve you would plumb to which is used by the application gauge if equipped.  On straight trucks, who would usually be the ones to use electric trailer brakes, you don't have a tractor protection valve and you have to make up a double check shuttle setup yourself, which is what is in the instructions.

Now all that said, the old Peterbilt most likely doesn't use a tractor protection valve with the port in it.  The same thing is accomplished with a series of check valves plumbed into the floor mounted treadle.  If the truck has an air app gauge then use that with a regular ol DOT tee and no double check.  Getting to the fittings of a floor treadle absolutely blows.

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13 hours ago, mr. cob said:

Howdy All,

Again, THANKS for the replies.  Reading about the Hayes and the Direct Link, I think in my application the Hayes would be the better unit. 

I have found TWO units, one model the "Hayes 100400C Air Actuated Brake Controller" is selling on Amazon for 253 dollars, the other version "Hayes 100400B Air Actuated Brake Controller" is going for 318 bucks.  I have read everything I can find which is not much and can't see what the difference is. 

I'll be installing this on a 2001 Pete, if that makes any difference I don't know, advise is appreciated.  Thanks.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Thank you for posting about Hayes having two different units or model numbers out there. Just learned something to day. I all use a Hayes controller. Seems to work ok. My trailer has disc brakes.

Please keep posting your progress.
Al

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Howdy All,

As I wrote earlier I sent an email to Hayes asking about the different controllers, here is my email to them and their answer to that question.

Thank you for contacting Hayes Support. Either controller will work for your application. As far as function or look of the units; they are the same. We changed some internal items for the current 'C' version. 

Thank You,

Brandon Langley
Hayes Customer Service Technical Support
1-800-892-2676



-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Hooker [mailto:dlhooker1@comcast.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 9:06 PM
To: Support
Subject: Brake controller question

Hello,

I am towing a three axle, six electric brakes, toy hauler RV trailer with a class 8 truck.

You have TWO air activated brake controllers listed, 100400B, which can be bought for 256 dollars and a 100400C which is going for 318 dollars on Amazon.  What is the difference between these two controllers and would the cheaper one work in my application?  Thanks.

Dave

So armed with that new information I will be buying the cheaper model of Hayes air activated brake controller I hope this information will be of some use to others and request that the "Resource Guide" be updated to reflect this new information, thank you.

Dave

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9 hours ago, Scrap said:

This one is a double check, AKA shuttle valve.

Shuttle+valve+working.jpg

Its purpose in air-brake life is to send out the higher of the two pressures, so that way if you have a circuit failure then the higher side air still goes out (ie: you still have trailer brakes).  This valve is already inside the tractor protection valve on tractors so you don't need to add it.  There is a double checked port on the TP valve you would plumb to which is used by the application gauge if equipped.  On straight trucks, who would usually be the ones to use electric trailer brakes, you don't have a tractor protection valve and you have to make up a double check shuttle setup yourself, which is what is in the instructions.

Now all that said, the old Peterbilt most likely doesn't use a tractor protection valve with the port in it.  The same thing is accomplished with a series of check valves plumbed into the floor mounted treadle.  If the truck has an air app gauge then use that with a regular ol DOT tee and no double check.  Getting to the fittings of a floor treadle absolutely blows.

Howdy Scrap,

Thank you for the detailed explanation to this air routing dilemma it is most appreciated.  I have an air application gauge, I will tee into that line to supply air to the brake controller.  There's really not much room to mount the controller under the dash on the Pete, so I am thinking if I mount it on the drivers side of the big ole Auto-Shift tower that is mounted between the seats on the floor that would be an easy place to mount it and use-adjust it if needed.

Dave

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Mine is out of sight. Basically on floor behind Ash tray area. I simply pull out tray and there is is. Once adjusted it is done. 

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