BluDot adjust brake pressure & maintenance

[donf888]

Hi All,

Sorry for the long absence -- family & personal issues have had a major impact on my presence for awhile!

I've had the BluDot conversion since 2011, and it works very well -- it seems abit too much/well.  Brake pads on my disc brakes seem to be 50% worn around 8-10K miles.  That seems abit more aggressive than needed (given the truck (23k) well out-weighs the trailer (19k));  our RV-1 regulator keeps the tank below 80psi.  I'd like to reduce the wear-and-tear on brake pads, so am wondering if reducing the RV-1 to 70psi would accomplish that (or not!).

Secondly, I recently noticed there is a maintenance advice in the documentation for the RV-1 valve; has anyone followed this advice -- if so, how often?!?  We do about 10-15k miles per year (since we tend to go coast-to-coast), am thinking (like wheel bearing) this level of use would dictact once a year maintenance. Comments???

-Don

[GlennWest]

Are you using crematic pads?

[donf888]

Ceramic pads -- not sure, whatever came from Kodiak (or Mor\Ryde)... will need to check.

[rickeieio]

As one who just today finished the installation of a BluDot system, I'm all ears.  I need to learn the subtleties of this thing.

[HERO Maker]

Don, I do know that you or your brake guy need to make sure that there is absolutely no air in those brake lines after the master cylinder.  There are two bleeders at each wheel, one each side, that need to be bled.

The smallest amount of air will increase the pressure and you may have a caliper applying just a little pressure on the pads.

I've not heard anything about the RV-1 valve.  Never had anything that needed adjusting on my old Teton I had for 8 years.  My current BluDot system is working just great and there hasn't been anything mentioned about adjustment anywhere!

I did have to make sure, when I ordered BluDot, that I was not getting the same higher pressure system that was on my Dexter axles and brakes on the Teton.  I believe they applied around 1500 lbs.  The Kodiaks required the @1,000 lbs system from BluDot.

[GlennWest]

Got my disc brake system from etrailer. They shipped with ceramic pads with lifetime warranty. 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

3 hours ago, rickeieio said:

As one who just today finished the installation of a BluDot system, I'm all ears.  I need to learn the subtleties of this thing.

X2 on this. I'm ordering my kit beginning of Jan.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Rocky- I didn't look over your rig at the rally, do you have any pics of how you ran your airlines and gladhands on the RV?  And did you remove the electric actuator and install everything behind the sliding wall, or did you mount the tanks and master cylinder elsewhere?

[HERO Maker]

Master cylinder was mounted where the electric actuator was.  Needed no extension of the brakes lines from there.

Mounted the tank above my generator in the generator compartment.  Had a lot of room.

I will try and get some pics posted probably tomorrow with follow up comments.

[MrSeas]

Question..

Opps!

[GlennWest]

The actuator has to be disabled. It is signaled from electric current. Bludot is signal by air. Pressure to master cylinder is supplied by air. Nothing electrical

[rickeieio]

I didn't have room to put the air tank inside without cutting into my storage space, so I mounted it under the nose where the spare tire used to live.  It actually has significantly more clearance than the tire did.  The only thing that looked "iffy" was the drain, so I replaced that with a pipe plug.  It's really no harder to remove a plug than to open a valve.

Sitting and pondering where to run the lines and mount the items took much longer than the actual install.  It took me a week, and I could another on the same coach in a day.

I removed the old actuator and mounted the new master in nearly the same place.

[donf888]

Thanks to Jack & Henry, we learned the Bendix RV-1 pressure reducing valve was the way to go for my Kodiak brakes (they stipulated 100psi or less); mine was set to 80psi (outta the box) so left it alone.  The RV-1 was in lieu of the previous advice to use LQ-4 reducer (per Kodiak). Now, some 6 years later (and several brake pad changes), it seems the pads wear down faster than I'd expect -- only 10k miles the last set to less than half material.  Just thinking they're getting more pressure than needed, looking to extend their lifespan to (at least?) 20k  miles.

On original install with Henry, we followed Jack's advice, here: http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_projects_and_improvements.htm#Blu Dot

-Don

[GlennWest]

You do bleed off air when disconnected, right? 

[oletimer]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 3:10 PM, donf888 said:

Hi All,

Sorry for the long absence -- family & personal issues have had a major impact on my presence for awhile!

I've had the BluDot conversion since 2011, and it works very well -- it seems abit too much/well.  Brake pads on my disc brakes seem to be 50% worn around 8-10K miles.  That seems abit more aggressive than needed (given the truck (23k) well out-weighs the trailer (19k));  our RV-1 regulator keeps the tank below 80psi.  I'd like to reduce the wear-and-tear on brake pads, so am wondering if reducing the RV-1 to 70psi would accomplish that (or not!).

Secondly, I recently noticed there is a maintenance advice in the documentation for the RV-1 valve; has anyone followed this advice -- if so, how often?!?  We do about 10-15k miles per year (since we tend to go coast-to-coast), am thinking (like wheel bearing) this level of use would dictact once a year maintenance. Comments???

-Don

I don't want to cause a stink, but a few years ago I decided to do a complete rebuild on our 2003 Teton, and had the Mor/Ryd IS with Kodiak disc installed.  Had all kinds of problems.  I would burn the pads up in just a few "hundred" miles, also burn up the bearings, races, and seals.  Installed the RV-1 @ 80#, no change.  Kept bleeding, re-bleeding, like 5 times, no luck.  Installed SS caliper pistons, pads etc.  I would drive less than 10 miles, not touching the brakes, coasting to a stop, and the rotor was so hot it would blister my fingers if touched.  I had installed the BluDot as per Jacks instructions, so I had a gauge on the output side of the master cylinder, and it never showed any pressure while traveling until I applied the brakes.  The ONLY way I could use the system was to install a front axel hold off valve to keep all pressure from being applied until it reached 4 PSI.  Then everything worked OK, but you would get a little surge when the pressure reached 5 PSI.  Ordered a new Spacecraft with the BluDot, and HD drum brakes.  Works for me!! 

Good luck,      Dick T    

[Ronbo]

Remember your pads that fit the Kodiak 250 calipers come from a GM sedan. It weighs about 25%of what your rv does. I don’t know what the answer is because I have a direc link system. I can adjust the breaking down on the fly and now have it at the lowest setting. I don’t know how much better Dexter brakes are but I do know they are proud of their pads and you have to wait for them to ship. I have not heard of them crossing over to anything.

[noteven]

Just think if your big trailers could come with air brakes....... 

But I got thinkin ridin along today... maybe air brakes are just too mass production, inexpensive, and not complicated/trouble prone enough for RV's? 

 

[donf888]

On 12/14/2017 at 10:28 AM, GlennWest said:

You do bleed off air when disconnected, right? 

Always,,, like a religion!

[donf888]

On 12/14/2017 at 10:34 AM, oletimer said:

I don't want to cause a stink, but a few years ago I decided to do a complete rebuild on our 2003 Teton, and had the Mor/Ryd IS with Kodiak disc installed.  Had all kinds of problems.  I would burn the pads up in just a few "hundred" miles, also burn up the bearings, races, and seals.  Installed the RV-1 @ 80#, no change.  Kept bleeding, re-bleeding, like 5 times, no luck.  Installed SS caliper pistons, pads etc.  I would drive less than 10 miles, not touching the brakes, coasting to a stop, and the rotor was so hot it would blister my fingers if touched.  I had installed the BluDot as per Jacks instructions, so I had a gauge on the output side of the master cylinder, and it never showed any pressure while traveling until I applied the brakes.  The ONLY way I could use the system was to install a front axel hold off valve to keep all pressure from being applied until it reached 4 PSI.  Then everything worked OK, but you would get a little surge when the pressure reached 5 PSI.  Ordered a new Spacecraft with the BluDot, and HD drum brakes.  Works for me!! 

Good luck,      Dick T    

Interesting...  (Note to self: find a hold-off valve to keep at 0psi until I apply at least some braking pressure;  any specific advice on what valve to get, and where?!?)  Thanks, Dick.

 

-Don

[oletimer]

18 hours ago, donf888 said:

Interesting...  (Note to self: find a hold-off valve to keep at 0psi until I apply at least some braking pressure;  any specific advice on what valve to get, and where?!?)  Thanks, Dick.

 

-Don

Don, I think it was the LQ-4.  I have a PDF for a LQ-2, and a LQ4 that I will try to attach.  I do know that after installing the valve, I never had anymore problems.  I also can't remember who suggested installing one, but I suspect it was Jack, as he is very helpful, and familiar with the BluDot.   Tried the drag & drop, didn't work (104 kg) are you kidding me?  Maybe I'll try a PM, or email.    Dick T        

[oletimer]

Guess I don't know how to use this new system, because I can't find how to PM, (with more download allowance) or your email.  As I've said before, I'm kinda' old, slow and dumb.    Dick T

[donf888]

13 hours ago, oletimer said:

Don, I think it was the LQ-4.  I have a PDF for a LQ-2, and a LQ4 that I will try to attach.  I do know that after installing the valve, I never had anymore problems.  I also can't remember who suggested installing one, but I suspect it was Jack, as he is very helpful, and familiar with the BluDot.   Tried the drag & drop, didn't work (104 kg) are you kidding me?  Maybe I'll try a PM, or email.    Dick T        

Dick,

Per Jack's tutorial (back in 2011, same as now) the LQ-4 was the "original" advice for Kodiak, but is superseded by the RV-1 --- and that's the one we have installed.  It limits the RV's air tank to 80psi, and my main question is about reducing its application pressure so the pads will last longer.  (I sent you PM, so you can share what you have with me directly --- my email is donf.sjc@gmail.com

Thanks,

[Jack Mayer]

Bendix RV-1 as Don said....they are adjustable. You likely will run about 85-90 psi in it. It is 10:1 to the Kodiak (pressure-wise). These are for Kodiak ONLY. NEVER put one on a Dexter system.

[GlennWest]

They are $50.00 on Amazon 

[Scrap]

Granted I've never installed one of these, but putting the RV-1 in the supply end of the tank doesn't seem right.  Seems like it should be in the control line for your relay valve?  If it is limiting the pressure of the whole tank and you go to lower it even more you end up dangerously close to the hold off pressure of your emergency control valve.  Get a sag in supply pressure for whatever reason and you could end up parking when you don't want to.  It is especially sensitive since you guys don't use an emergency pressure protection valve, so when the truck suffers the trailer does too.

On top of that, the RV-1 is only limiting peak pressure.  So yes, it keeps the brakes from blowing seals at full application/park, but it doesn't limit them (ie: change brake balance) under normal application.  So lowering pressure isn't going to do anything for balance.  The LQ-4 on its own will change balance until 50-60psi where it'll blend back to application pressure.  It doesn't limit peak pressure.  So you change balance but doesn't limit full application/park.  You kind of need them both if your requirements are for both.  Or you change out your relay emergency valve for one with ratio control (ala Sealco 116205) and limit its control side with the RV-1.

The LQ-4 does have a crack pressure, but so does the relay emergency valve.  So adding it just for a crack shouldn't have made a difference unless the REV has a problem.  With the length of trailer plumbing, location of tank vs chamber, size of chamber, and if you have one or two chambers, you may need to add a relay or a quick release to get things to release fast enough not to drag.  But with all the limiting valves in the control side of the REV it should be able to drive two type 24 or a single type 30 chamber just fine.

I'm not suggesting anything needs to change just yet, but more striking up a conversation with those that know what's going on with these in order to talk through it.  This stuff and non-121 trailer air system design hasn't been used since the 70's so it isn't a widely known thing in the rest of the world.  It is probably hard to get advice on it.