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Off Topic a bit - Home Solar power outage tricking


Smitty77_7

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We have a 24 LG 330W panel system at home. With Enphase S-280 Micro-inverters, in a power grid feed system. 

The S-280 shut down, when no power is detected from the power grid (like during a power outage). 

I don't want to expend a great deal of money at this time (We have two homes, and will be selling one of them in the next few years. Not sure if it will be the home with the Solar Panels or not. So, don't want to invest a great deal of funds at this time.). That being said, the area had three power outages while we were gone for this years trip, and our MIL did have to toss quite a bit of spoiled food from an outage that lasted just under 72 hours. So, I'd like to be able to use the power output from those panels during the days sunshine. Without AC on, they obviously support the full how power needs.

I've read a few articles about 'tricking' the S-280's into seeing power. Battery and inverter involved in doing this, and then a hard disconnect back to the grid until power is restored safely to the area. 

I've a email into Enphase tech support, as I had not been able to locate 'how much power' the S-280's need to see, in order to keep producing power. 

But what I'm thinking of doing, is moving our ~6 year old Lifeline X's 4 L16's 800AH into our garage. And then picking up an inverter of XXX(To Be Determined) to feed power back up to the S-280's. Hoping a simple 600 to maybe 1000W inverter would do the job. 

I'd have a KISS (And by the way, legally installed and permitted - as I do not want to compromise insurance problems down the road by a install that is not legal...), step by step direction of what switches to to turn on/off to get this going. With good power feeding into the home from the solar panels, I'd also set up a charger on the Lifeline's to realistically charge more then is being withdrawn to 'trick the S-280's' into seeing power. My expectations (And thinking, which is often not as accurate as I'd prefer.), would be that the Lifeline's would be fully charged at the end of the day, due to more power going into them, then fed out of them to the S-280's. 

As the power of the sun fades, I'd have a reverse KISS for going into nighttime mode, for my MIL to follow. 

I figure 9-10 hours of good San Diego sun, would keep the fridge's cool and with little opening in the evening, should be able to go several days like this. 

I've been penciling out a Lithium Bank Update to our coach for the last few months, so figure installing one now in the coach early vs waiting until the Lifeline's have fully faded, is economically sound reuse of the Lifelines. (With a trickle charge on them, no reason I should not get another 3-4 years out of them. And by then, we'll know if which house we're keeping. And I can replace them at that time with perhaps a lithium bank, that allows complete Off Grid option. (I'd remain on grid, but if a long power outage kicks in, at least we'd have 7/24 power...). 

Gang. Not looking for too much input at this time. But would value any major 'You completely forgot to think about...' - or - 'Maybe you might want to consider...'. The goal here would be for shorter term outages, and tricking the 24 panels and S-280's inverter into continuing to provide for now 'day time' power to the house. 

Longer range, I did stub out and size our homes natural gas line supply to support a generator... So would pencil that out again compared to a night time lithium bank supply:)!

TIA for any advance input:)! (I know several of you have some real world experiences with off grid solar...:)!),

Smitty

Be safe, have fun,

Smitty

04 CC Allure "RooII" - Our "E" ride for life!

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2 hours ago, Smitty77_7 said:

We have a 24 LG 330W panel system at home. With Enphase S-280 Micro-inverters, in a power grid feed system. 

The S-280 shut down, when no power is detected from the power grid (like during a power outage). 

I don't want to expend a great deal of money at this time (We have two homes, and will be selling one of them in the next few years. Not sure if it will be the home with the Solar Panels or not. So, don't want to invest a great deal of funds at this time.). That being said, the area had three power outages while we were gone for this years trip, and our MIL did have to toss quite a bit of spoiled food from an outage that lasted just under 72 hours. So, I'd like to be able to use the power output from those panels during the days sunshine. Without AC on, they obviously support the full how power needs.

I've read a few articles about 'tricking' the S-280's into seeing power. Battery and inverter involved in doing this, and then a hard disconnect back to the grid until power is restored safely to the area. 

  ...

I'd have a KISS (And by the way, legally installed and permitted - as I do not want to compromise insurance problems down the road by a install that is not legal...), step by step direction of what switches to to turn on/off to get this going. 

Do this legally and safely while avoiding liability?  Not likely.

The disconnect from the grid has to be COMPLETE and TOTAL before you fire up the inverter. Get it wrong and you'll backfeed power into the dead grid and create a deadly hazard.  That's why the micro inverters shut down when grid power goes away.  The power will backfeed through the transformer feeding your house and be boosted to deadly voltage levels.  Having someone get across an energized high voltage line that is supposed to be dead is not a good thing.

I'd get a generator - a Honda EU2000i wil easily run your refrigerator and freezer.  It's easy to start and uses very little fuel. Plug them into extension cords running to the generator, plug them back into the wall when the outage is over.  Or if you must use the panels, install a parallel battery and stand-alone inverter system for power outages.

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Thanks Lou! And yes, my intent is to keep this both legal, and permitted... And I'd 'assume' this would not b reinvention of the wheel:)!. 

It just amazed me to have the gent I'd worked with as I installed the current Solar Panels, look me in the eye and say: Off Grid, is for sure different and less administratively less restrictive then 'Grid Tied' - at least in California:)!

And frankly, that amazed me. Why have all of these different groups pushing for 'Solar or Wind' power... When unless you're Off Grid you can't use in our case almost 8K Watts of solar power? The usage of which, could be the difference on extend power outages for an individual... 

I'm for sure all about, and will personally pay more if needed, to ensure safety for all... The 'Tech' solutions exists, why are not(?) the regulatory aspects also in place... 

Slow, but I hope steady, on this one...

Best,

Smitty

 

Be safe, have fun,

Smitty

04 CC Allure "RooII" - Our "E" ride for life!

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Had a lucky, and timely as far as my questions about how to keep the micro-inverters online during a power outage, opportunity yesterday:)!

A total of 5 different trucks pulled up to my neighbors home yesterday at 7:30AM. He had a Tesla Powerwall 2 installed. He had Solar Panels with Enphase Micro-inverters (an easier version that handled lower panel wattage then the S-280's, but still functions the same). 

I talked with the lead gent on the install of the Powerwall 2. Yes, they have automatic cutoff to the grid in case of a power failure. But he said they also have the ability for the grid to turn back on the Powerwall 2 to the grid. If say during a power outage where the lines were not compromised, the idea is the utilities would tap into homes Power Storage (In this case the Powerwall 2, and allow power to say hospitals. (I have not researched this in anyway, just passing on what he said. Assume it has to be an authorized connection, with homeowner consent to allow the access to their power storage. And also assume this is more a future world where more power supplies and or solar power is available to the total grid...). 

Otherwise the new gear basically acts the way I had researched things. Except where as I wanted to do a 'manual' disconnect back to the grid (Turn off the main house breakers.) before sending power back into the panel upstream of the main house breakers. This would be the power needed to be seen from the micro-inverters, for them to kick on and start allowing solar power back into the house panel. 

And yes, his Powerwall 2 is all permitted and per utilizes and local building codes. 

Again, I'm not doing anything until I determine which of the homes we're going to retain. May even pay to move out ~8K of LG panels over to the other house, if we elect to keep it. (The gent I work with said about $4K to do this, with permits and all that it entails too...). 

One other interesting info we found out in the last few days. Both of the property taxes for next year game in the last few days. The house with out solar, went up about 1.2%. The house with solar, went up 3.8%. (I called and talked to the county tax department to ask why two homes side by side, had such a difference in tax increase - it was the 'solar' that bumped up our tax rate higher.) I talked with my Sister about this, a retired local San Diego Gas & Electric employee. And she said that many states, and or counties within some states, have exemptions from increasing the value of the taxable amount on a home from adding 'passive power'. Our state/county does not have that exemption... So this will now delay my total payback I estimate to about 8-9 years, from the 4.5-6.5 years I had first calculated... (We have an amortized first full year of usage electric credit of $117 per month.) 

All of this thread was just me thinking things out, and doing some longer term planning for possible next steps here on one of these two homes... 

Best to all,

Smitty

 

Be safe, have fun,

Smitty

04 CC Allure "RooII" - Our "E" ride for life!

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