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16 hours ago, bigjim said:

 Dance chick,  really a valid point that I have thought before and also from the point of serving me as a solo versus a large table.

And serving those of us who don't order wine or cocktails versus those who do. We don't usually order appetizers, either, but that does mean we finish sooner so they can turn the table. Unless we are meeting RV friends; then all bets are off. :)

Linda Sand

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I have had bad service of course but I have to say that mostly I have been treated well even as a solo. I have to admit I have gotten irked more often waiting on the bill than the service.  There may be some ligitimate reasons for that  I don't understand because I don't know that side of it.

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On 9/28/2017 at 5:33 PM, eddie1261 said:

I believe that working for tips provides incentive for wait staff to work harder.

There's nothing that prevents a restaurant from paying its high performing people more. 

 

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That is quite true, but I see that scenario ending up with the poor performer fired and replaced rather than the top performer given more. That drives the expenses up. The profit margin in restaurants is very small (or they wouldn't come and go so fast) so those owners are typically hyper focused on their bottom line. 

But I agree. Better performers should be rewarded.

Edited by eddie1261

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2 hours ago, eddie1261 said:

That is quote true, but I see that scenario ending up with the poor performer fired and replaced rather than the top performer given more. That drives the expenses up. The profit margin in restaurants is very small (or they wouldn't come and go so fast) so those owners are typically hyper focused on their bottom line. 

But I agree. Better performers should be rewarded.

Seems to me , that should happen anyway . Poor help simply drives money / customers away .

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Last night I stopped for dinner at a steak/BBQ place in Medicine Hat, UT.  Although the place wasn't busy, since I was single they suggested I sit at the counter.  I did, and several minutes later the menu arrived and items were priced from $20 to $30.

I'm glad I looked all the way through the menu, on the last page it stated that a mandatory 18% tip (20% for groups over 4 people) would be added to all checks.

I waited a few more minutes, when no one came around to check on me I walked out.

I then went to another restaurant, spent about the same amount for an excellent meal with good service, and left a 20% tip.  The difference was the Tip was MY choice, not required by the establishment.

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And that surely appears to be imposed by the business and not the servers. I have  seen that at a few places altough most I have seen only applied to groups of at least 4 but usually more.  I have seen a manager called and that challanged and rescinded and in both cases the servers gave good service and ended up with far more than 18%.  I have also seen waitstaff get shafted by some large groups. My son once served a large demanding tabel that left no tip I think at a Pizza Hut. Another man that was there with his 2 kids saw the quality of service and the no tip and called him over and gave him $100. I think that was back in the late 80's or early 90's.  Hard to believe he is 49 now.

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I think that my favorite "good tip" story would be from the days that I lived in WY and worked for an office in Denver. My boss usually came to the techs when he needed to meet with one of us from the outlying areas to save us travel time and so he was up to spend the day with me. In the afternoon we stopped at a local coffee shop and over coffee went through some paperwork and such which required an hour or more of time spent in a booth there. We both had coffee only, which at that time was around $1/1.25 each and the waitress must have filled our cups or offered to at least a half-dozen times. When we went to leave my boss gave her a $10 bill and declined any change. He told her that the extra was for rental of meeting space. :)

Edited by Kirk Wood

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In response to Kirk's, people should do as his boss and realize that when they're taking more time than usual, like for a meeting or just talking and catching up, they should tip more than the usual. They should realize that the server has lost the opportunity to serve more people and make more income. I wonder how many people really think about that.

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We don't tip retail staff who provide the same level of service as most OTC staff in coffee houses and take-out places...seems like a double standard

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Local Pizza. Local Chinese. Local Deli Sandwich. takeout counter,  I drop a dollar. I do get better service. Mcd's or such, not tipping.

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At a buffet we leave a small tip for the staff that has to clean up.  At full service places we leave a tip based on the degree of service ranging from 15 to 20% of the bill.  If the service is sub standard, we do not leave a tip or reduce the amount and note it on the CC receipt.  We also make a point to find the manager and give him the signed receipt and let him know about the issue so that he can address it with the wait staff.

Ken

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10 hours ago, TXiceman said:

At a buffet we leave a small tip for the staff that has to clean up.  At full service places we leave a tip based on the degree of service ranging from 15 to 20% of the bill.  If the service is sub standard, we do not leave a tip or reduce the amount and note it on the CC receipt.  We also make a point to find the manager and give him the signed receipt and let him know about the issue so that he can address it with the wait staff.

Ken

TXiceman sums up my tipping philosophy pretty well.  Spot on leaving a tip for the buffet clean up staff.  They do get the short end of the stick on tips.

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22 hours ago, Aggie79-82a said:

TXiceman sums up my tipping philosophy pretty well.  Spot on leaving a tip for the buffet clean up staff.  They do get the short end of the stick on tips.

Would you feel the same way if the staff is paid the local minimum wage of $15/hour?

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1 hour ago, Blues said:

Would you feel the same way if the staff is paid the local minimum wage of $15/hour?

And let me put a slightly different spin on this reply.

How would you feel if you had a degree and you were making $14 an hour at your job, and you eat dinner somewhere, and someone is being paid $15 an hour to carry food to your table?

THAT is the state of this economy. I know people with IT degrees and many industry standard certifications who make $14 an hour, because so much support work has been outsourced to India. Why should unskilled laborers make more than people who earned degrees? Because waitressing can't be outsourced until someone figured out a way to build food delivery AI driven robots?

I said earlier, I don't mind tipping, and I tip on those rare occasions I dine away from home. I just don't want to be told I have to. And I don't mean to sound condescending to people who wait tables. Never. Everybody does what they do. I just feel that various jobs should have varying levels of compensation based on what kind of qualification, education, training and their relevance to the big picture. Is the guy who keeps a company's mail server running worth less than the girl who brings you pie and coffee?

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Eddie, a degree doesn't guarantee a job.  And lots of people without college degrees make significant salary because they have a skill that is in demand.  You can not compare salaries across different companies.   If you want a good paying job, then majoring in engineering, physical sciences, medicine, etc. is the route to go.   For me, elementary and special ed teachers should be the best paid people in the country.

You do know that in most places, wait staff are paid less than the current federal $7.35/hr because tips are considered a normal part of their compensation. 

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You may want to read my post again. My post was about IF they make $15 an hour. I never went anywhere near saying a degree guarantees a job. I know what they make, and I tip them because of it. I also said that I tip but am deeply offended by being forced to do so with tips being added.

I said that someone who put in the blood, sweat and tears to earn a degree should make more than someone doing a job that takes very little (or no) education or skill. I didn't want to work in retail or wait tables so I went to college. Twice. You are an educator. Don't you think education should be rewarded?

I don't know how that post could have been any clearer and did not remotely say what you responded to. Degree or no degree and significant salary was not the gist of my post. I am aware that people can make money without a degree. I am also aware that they won't doing it waiting tables, unless they work at a $15 an hour place. IF they make $15 an hour they can make MORE than IT professionals. You don't see anything wrong on that balance sheet? You go to college and earn a degree and make less than someone carrying food? Achieving different educational and qualification levels should be rewarded in scale.  The girl who makes my sandwich at Subway shouldn't make more than the accountant who keeps the business running, should she? They can replace that girl tomorrow, as it doesn't take much to put turkey into a little loaf of bread. They can't replace that accountant tomorrow.

Just an aside, have you never noticed how well over half of the people who are that girl at Subway just kind of sigh their way though their day because they hate what they do? I have one at my corner and the smell of despair coming off those workers is palpable. One girl out of the whole staff has any kind of personality. The rest give off body language that makes it quite obvious that  they don't want to be there. I can't imagine living that way. 

Have a good night.

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Education isn't about a job.   If you didn't learn that in college, then you missed the point.   Hopefully you will be of value to an employer, but that isn't the point of a college education.  If you just want a job,  then go to a job training center. 

Your limited knowledge of what people make in different occupations is kind of distressing.  I assure you that this evening there are wait staff all over the country who make VERY good livings, taking in way more than $15/hr for their work.  Now you may not be eating in those restaurants, but they do exist.   

If the owner of the Subway  decides that the person making the sandwiches does a good job, is friendly and people come back because of her, then what is your problem with what she is paid.    If $15 is the minimum wage, then the IT person will also be making at least $15.   No one is forcing someone to work in IT - if the pay is lousy, get into some other line of work.   That is where the value of a REAL college education should come into play - - because one should have learned HOW TO LEARN and can apply those skills in different settings. 

 

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Just having a degree does not guarantee good pay....as thousands of people discover every year. 

Having the right degree may help, but having actual skills is the key. A degree and skills do not go together, unfortunately. People coming out of Universities these days often - not always, but often - have very few skills. And many do not "want" to work, but just be paid a salary (usually high salary). It is very, very difficult to find good help from recent college grads.... Not impossible, but difficult. 

 

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I want to hit the "like" button on Jack's post.    I would always tell freshmen that going to college is like going to a gym;  you pay money to access the  resources that can give you 'skills' and the result can be a great future or great body but ONLY if they put in the effort. 

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Jack, your statement is largely true, but the opportunity to learn a skill is there. The kids of this entitled generation choose to not do that. If they come from a home with parents that had a good work ethic, they will be good employees. This generation has had everything handed to them and never heard the word "No." My parents were depression era people. They worked hard, never took days off, never threw anything away that could be fixed or repurposed. With that kind of role model, plus military time that taught me discipline, I grew up the same way. I can count on 2 hands the number of days I took off from work (excluding planned vacations, of course) in the last 15 years of my work life. And 2 of those came after a car accident that almost killed me. The day after the concussion subsided, I was back at the help desk with my headset on. At least 2 dozen people came by and asked me why I was there. My reply was "This is my job. I have a responsibility to you people to help you when you have problems." You have to look no further than schools closing because a snowflake fell, or because it was "too hot" for the precious little angels to sit in a classroom. 

So, yes, you are correct. The degree itself only opens the door. What you do behind that door matters. I am a HUGE fan of trade schools. The country needs welders, plumbers, auto mechanics, carpenters... trades people in general... FAR more than we need more cultural anthropologists, or theoretical physicists who tell us their theory of what MIGHT be.  People are keeping houses and cars longer now. They need to be fixed. Those training facilities may not be called "college", but they ARE their own kind of college.

(And just an off-topic aside.... My ignore list just keeps on growing!! LOL!!! I am NOT going to get into arguments. If I wanted to do that I would get married again. I divorced 3 of them because they wanted to argue and have pissing contests. Not with me you won't. The only opinion I really ascribe to is mine, so if people want to argue, they are wasting keystrokes, as they go to ignore and I don't even see what they write. Your "right" is only right for you. That attitude of "It's right because it's how I do it" is called fascism.)

Edited by eddie1261

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On 10/6/2017 at 7:20 PM, eddie1261 said:
Quote

Would you feel the same way if the staff is paid the local minimum wage of $15/hour?

And let me put a slightly different spin on this reply.

How would you feel if you had a degree and you were making $14 an hour at your job, and you eat dinner somewhere, and someone is being paid $15 an hour to carry food to your table?

That's not a slightly different spin on my reply--it's a misinterpretation.  Someone said he liked leaving a tip for buffet clean-up staff because they get the short end of the stick on tips, and I pointed out that they could be making $15/hour, and wondered if that would affect his opinion.  The make a higher wage because they are not tipped employees, unlike waiters.

 

On 10/7/2017 at 9:12 AM, eddie1261 said:

(And just an off-topic aside.... My ignore list just keeps on growing!! LOL!!! I am NOT going to get into arguments. If I wanted to do that I would get married again. I divorced 3 of them because they wanted to argue and have pissing contests.

You mentioned that you'd been to college twice.  I'm guessing neither course of study included "common denominator."

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If minimum wage is assumed at $15. Why would eddie not make $15.  IT makes $14 while fast food makes <$8.  Is a server in a fast food or sit down buffet where you eat less important than the IT being served?  Would you rather gather your own food?  Or, clean-up the mess you make at the buffet?  If the $15 minimum for un-tiped workers takes effect, will tipped employees have their minimum figured with tips?

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42 minutes ago, Blues said:

You mentioned that you'd been to college twice.  I'm guessing neither course of study included "common denominator."

I did not see it in the course catalog.

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My take on tipping is this.  If a server just "does their job" as would be expected, my tip, if any, would be nominal.  If on the other hand, they ensure my drinks are refilled, ask if the meal is satisfactory, attends to us if we want desert, then the "standard" 15% is left.  My usual method is to reward whomever has gone the extra mile to make our dining experience good.  Recently at a small pizza place in Ellis, KS, we had an extraordinary pizza.  Lots of toppings, and very flavorful.  When paying, I left the standard tip on the bill and then asked the clerk to let me meet the pizza chef.  An energetic young lady came out to meet us.  We complimented her on the pizza she had prepared and gave her a $5 tip personally.  She proved she was a valuable resource for that restaurant.  We will definitely eat there next time through.

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