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Custom building our full time gooseneck. w8' h10'6" but length... 28, 29, 29.5, 30 or 32????


Leftishut

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2 hours ago, Leftishut said:

Nice. I had just decided to go mini split to keep roof clean but hadn't looked into specs. Ac off grid is a must. Does it pull the same to heat? It just reverses flow right? Or does it at electric heat with it?

They are heat pumps. Haven't went thru a winter yet to say how good but cools great. We are able to cool down more than with both 15k Dometics. We are still using one part time in Texas heat. 2 12k 110v units would do the job for you. Also you can run both on 1 15 amp breaker

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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Welcome   Leftishut    Lots to think about......Height....well....I would keep as short  (around 12 FT or less total) and as much ground clearance as you can,   So what dose that leave you in-between, to live in ?   Weight of 8,6"'ft. is no problem in 98% of the time.  Gates, bridges, some times is tight getting lined up to pull through. The one on the salmon river above Riggins, about 25 miles  is one I can think of. Length,  NEVER   have enough storage. I hope you have been taken a pencil and paper and draw out things you like, put them together and then make them all fit.  That not easy.  I live about 430 miles north of you, and on mountain roads quite often.  I would recommend, for a trailer foundation, a ALL alumina,  horse or livestock trailer .  Go to rodeo/ fair grounds and look what some of the trailers go through, and are still all together.   If you are thinking about a typical car trailer. (wood box with tin over it) it will not hold up.  On your 5 wheel plan.....What are you thinking about for the front over hinge....6 ft.   8 ft.?  Are you going to use it for a bead?  And if so... how much room do you need?  do you want to set up/  stand up in the bead area?  This could set you over height limit .  So lets say..6 ft.  over hinge (bead room) on a 30 ft. trailer,  leaves 24 ft. on the deck for bathroom, kitchen, and live room.  Tanks.. fresh 90/100 gal. black tank 35 gal, gay tank 50/60....  If you can't get it all I..... well 32 ft. long. There is all kind of of options to use. I tried to use a good hard ware  store for  (Lows/ Home Depot Type)  ALL supply's and stay away from RV suppliers.   But each to his own.. Just my thought .  OU812  :)

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2 hours ago, Leftishut said:

I really only have space for one. And we don't need freezing cold just livable. I like the dc idea. What brand is it?

http://www.geinnovations.net/HSAC_Productline.html

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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5 hours ago, OU812 said:

Welcome   Leftishut    Lots to think about......Height....well....I would keep as short  (around 12 FT or less total) and as much ground clearance as you can,   So what dose that leave you in-between, to live in ?   Weight of 8,6"'ft. is no problem in 98% of the time.  Gates, bridges, some times is tight getting lined up to pull through. The one on the salmon river above Riggins, about 25 miles  is one I can think of. Length,  NEVER   have enough storage. I hope you have been taken a pencil and paper and draw out things you like, put them together and then make them all fit.  That not easy.  I live about 430 miles north of you, and on mountain roads quite often.  I would recommend, for a trailer foundation, a ALL alumina,  horse or livestock trailer .  Go to rodeo/ fair grounds and look what some of the trailers go through, and are still all together.   If you are thinking about a typical car trailer. (wood box with tin over it) it will not hold up.  On your 5 wheel plan.....What are you thinking about for the front over hinge....6 ft.   8 ft.?  Are you going to use it for a bead?  And if so... how much room do you need?  do you want to set up/  stand up in the bead area?  This could set you over height limit .  So lets say..6 ft.  over hinge (bead room) on a 30 ft. trailer,  leaves 24 ft. on the deck for bathroom, kitchen, and live room.  Tanks.. fresh 90/100 gal. black tank 35 gal, gay tank 50/60....  If you can't get it all I..... well 32 ft. long. There is all kind of of options to use. I tried to use a good hard ware  store for  (Lows/ Home Depot Type)  ALL supply's and stay away from RV suppliers.   But each to his own.. Just my thought .  OU812  :)

Thank you.

we are having a horse trailer guy locally build it, hopefully. It will be steal skinned top bottom and sides (as thick a reasonably possible. Framed with some tube for main frame and either z Chanel or hat Chanel for weight and insulation. Then I am hoping have him make thinner steal sheet panels prefaced so after I have spray foam insulation done I scrape off excess insulation and panel interior.

we will not put bed there. It will be 8' and have batteries, gen maybe on e side and the rest large pullout drawers for cloths some dry food and cargo. Bed will be Murphy bed in the back that will fold down over fold down couch (spare bed). The wall it will come down from will be about 3' from back and our bathroom will be behind. Kitchen in front.

how much clearance would you suggest?

on those mountain roads, how would 32' handle? A few feet make a difference?

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I'll be diving for my bunker after this post but:

Before your builder begins construction, hitch up one of their trailers similar in size and using the suspension they propose for you and go for a ride in it. Yep - youse guys hop in the back and go for a ride. It will give you an idea how your interior fittings, possessions, and furniture will fare.  

Use commons sense - maybe stand some protection against the front wall in case of emergency deceleration event or wear a skid lid. 

Keep a mobile phone connection open to the cab so the driver can holler "Hang on!" and "railway crossing" and "sharp curve" and such like that...

If you live where riding in a trailer is "highly illegal" (or even simply "illegal") don't make faces and wave at other road users out the windas ... maybe even rent a couple horse heads from the costume shop... 

Hark! I hear the howling from the safety committee coming after me ... gotta go...

"Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. 

 

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On 9/23/2017 at 6:46 AM, noteven said:

I'll be diving for my bunker after this post but:

Before your builder begins construction, hitch up one of their trailers similar in size and using the suspension they propose for you and go for a ride in it. Yep - youse guys hop in the back and go for a ride. It will give you an idea how your interior fittings, possessions, and furniture will fare.  

Use commons sense - maybe stand some protection against the front wall in case of emergency deceleration event or wear a skid lid. 

Keep a mobile phone connection open to the cab so the driver can holler "Hang on!" and "railway crossing" and "sharp curve" and such like that...

If you live where riding in a trailer is "highly illegal" (or even simply "illegal") don't make faces and wave at other road users out the windas ... maybe even rent a couple horse heads from the costume shop... 

Hark! I hear the howling from the safety committee coming after me ... gotta go...

It will be hard to find a comparable trailer. Stock trailers are extra heavy duty (carting a 600lb bull who isn't happy), and that would be overkill for our purposes. The weight/cargo trade off is probably going to be worse then I think as it is. 

We started the idea a year back, thinking of using an all aluminum gooseneck and building in the interior. After talking to a lot of people about aluminum stress fractures over time (cost wasn't nice either) we leaned toward a series with steal frame alluminum "box". Cost still high but weight and strength seemed nice.

but I stilled liked the idea of a horse trailer look. But they are all over built and the width is 7'. Since We try to stay local if reasonably possible, we went to Local trailer company in Star Idaho and got a tour of their shop (My father had a metal shop where we built power lifting equipment), seemed busy and workers seemed content enough.

So that opened up the horse trailer idea. Wider than normal and lighter than needed for stock. Higher than horses like too. They only work with steel. Weight is on my mind (my 2002 f350 7.3 has a gvwr of 9,900 and the book only gives specs for the 6.8l they are max gcwr 20,000lbs and max trailer 13,700lbs).

a normal cargo trailer seems not up to task as you said. He mentioned using z or hat channel for insulation value for the box. We want a steel skin top to bottom on the outside. I am also going to see cost of having prep interior skin out of steel so once spray foam is applied we can screw on interior panels. That seems like that would give high flex strength for weight but weight will still add up! Or we do interior floor out of pallet oak and aluminum roof flashing. Look more tiny house comfortable but worry about flex stress. It would a birch base all around I imagine.

I hope he is within our budget or we have to look to something used to modify.

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 Hi  Well Ground clearance....depends...... NOTHING hanging down  (pipes/drains)  I would recommend 10 in. but 12 in would be better. Now that depends on how much over hinge the trailer has behind the rear 7000 lb. brake axel, 2 ft. or 10 ft.   Look at "  Hillsboro trailers".... mid quality aluminum stock/ horse trailer.    Take a look at....    Platinum..... Bulmer.... 4=star..... feather light make a so... so  good trailer. For a 32 ft. aluminum  .... nothing fancy ... very good foundation to put living space in.......bear trailer.......8'6" W  x   32 Ft.  x    10 ft. total high,   8/ 10 ground clearance.  dabble wall....    Cost   new   $30,0000.      You put in living space.....   $20,000   to  $60,000+,   Now that is if you do most of the interior.    HO..... With paint.....$10,000   to    $20,000    So if you are going to get into a project ....Look at the cost ........   One more thing   Weight and balance... very important......Don't put all the trailer weight in one spot....   It will tow badly.    OU812   :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

We have a large Morgan cargo van with overhead back door and 44" wide curbside door  it is light and strong and took less than a hour to install on our Freightliner.

After building MILLIONS of cargo bodies Morgan IS the Gold Standard. 

I have owned 14Ft 20 Ft and 28 Ft long Morgans and 102" wide and they are so durable it is silly to try to have your own box built

Morgan boxes at so strong but at the same time very light because cargo boxes are all about the amount of cargo you can legally haul inside the box ........it's called PAYLOAD and Morgan is the gold standard.

The box you describe will likely be pretty heavy and almost certain to have some weak spots that simply do not exist in Morgans boxes.

Did I mention that I have shopped around and bought nice 20 ft Morgan boxes for under $1,800 used......that's less than you cost of materials alone for your purposed box.

https://www.morgancorp.com/dry-freight/aluminum/features.php

Regardin weight and balance I have a spreadsheet that computes weight balance for trucks and trailer combos and you can move all of your axles, water tanks , generator, black water tanks, batteries, etc, etc as you wish and the spreadsheet will reclaculate your weight and balance LIVE as you input the data.

If you want the spreadsheet email me at   mmcdan3189@aol.com  or call my cell  (520) 891-3695

 

Drive on..........(rethink the Morgan box.....)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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On 9/22/2017 at 12:59 PM, Leftishut said:

I agree. I need them as high as possible to gravity feed. We want an open belly. We are making the tongue are water grab and a huge closet with hopefully 3 pullout drawers 7' long or so 2 clothes 1 food. 

I was thinking tank in truck to fill in place if we sit. But drive with tanks filled to what we can handle. Weight will be a problem with this build.

 

We don't want to discourage you and we think you have good intentions but you need to reconsider some items especially weight items.

If you put a water tank in your truck to fill your trailer tanks on the gooseneck, you are still decreasing what the truck can handle for pin weight. 

A 12volt on demand water pumps are very common and do not use a lot of energy. Your best location for fresh water tanks is low in the trailer to lower the center of gravity to keep the handling of the trailer on the safe side especially around corners. Dolly's offer for his balance speadsheet is a great offer and will help your planning.

I was just reading that Cummins does not warranty their RV generators if the are mounted up high. If you put the generator, batteries and water tanks all up high on the gooseneck, you will have a high centering of gravity and a large pin weight. 

I would include a black water tank in your build even if you do not use it. It will be cheaper to add it during the build rather than later in case you find the composting toilet will not work.

We currently have a total 20' living quarters area in our trailer, 12' on the floor and 8' on the gooseneck for the bed and it is pretty small. The trailer is 44' long but the rest is garage. We can manage for about 3 weeks in it. Our new trailer we hope will have 17' on the floor and 8' on the gooseneck with 2 slide outs for more space. We are going to use about 5' of the garage for a loft to gain some extra space.

Regarding using spray foam on steel, be sure you check to be sure it will not trap moisture. Some spray foam does just that and the metal will rust from the inside out.

Our trailer is about 12" from the ground to the frame with our drain pipes and door step hanging lower. We have skid bars under those items and they are always dragging. I can show you pictures of the gravel we dug up on our last camping trip. With Our new trailer, I am hoping to get the frame up at around 18" or more, plus still plan to have skid bars just in case.

You need to lay out your trailer in CAD, including a side elevation so you can what your overall height will need to be. Also you should be able to do some rough weight estimates that way too.

I think an all steel trailer is going to weigh much more than your truck can handle. Each construction has it own set of issues, but you are probably going to have to use a steel chassis and steel framework for the box, with aluminium sheeting to help on weight reduction.if that is not enough, you will need to either get a bigger truck or try the all aluminum construction like a Featherlite trailer which you can get with an LQ prep package to give you windows and door.

Dave

2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch
2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler
Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you!

 

Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/

for much more info on HDT's.

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On 10/13/2017 at 7:10 PM, Dollytrolley said:

We have a large Morgan cargo van with overhead back door and 44" wide curbside door  it is light and strong and took less than a hour to install on our Freightliner.

After building MILLIONS of cargo bodies Morgan IS the Gold Standard. 

I have owned 14Ft 20 Ft and 28 Ft long Morgans and 102" wide and they are so durable it is silly to try to have your own box built

Morgan boxes at so strong but at the same time very light because cargo boxes are all about the amount of cargo you can legally haul inside the box ........it's called PAYLOAD and Morgan is the gold standard.

The box you describe will likely be pretty heavy and almost certain to have some weak spots that simply do not exist in Morgans boxes.

Did I mention that I have shopped around and bought nice 20 ft Morgan boxes for under $1,800 used......that's less than you cost of materials alone for your purposed box.

https://www.morgancorp.com/dry-freight/aluminum/features.php

Regardin weight and balance I have a spreadsheet that computes weight balance for trucks and trailer combos and you can move all of your axles, water tanks , generator, black water tanks, batteries, etc, etc as you wish and the spreadsheet will reclaculate your weight and balance LIVE as you input the data.

If you want the spreadsheet email me at   mmcdan3189@aol.com  or call my cell  (520) 891-3695

 

Drive on..........(rethink the Morgan box.....)

We were originally thinking a Cargo trailer. I had a look at their site and saw no gooseneck or trailer. One thing we are decided on is not having an engine in our home. We have already bought the truck for better or worse it will be the max we can tow. We have to do this with no debt in order to simplify.

i sent an email for the spreadsheet. That would help a lot!

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1 hour ago, Star Dreamer said:

We don't want to discourage you and we think you have good intentions but you need to reconsider some items especially weight items.

If you put a water tank in your truck to fill your trailer tanks on the gooseneck, you are still decreasing what the truck can handle for pin weight. 

A 12volt on demand water pumps are very common and do not use a lot of energy. Your best location for fresh water tanks is low in the trailer to lower the center of gravity to keep the handling of the trailer on the safe side especially around corners. Dolly's offer for his balance speadsheet is a great offer and will help your planning.

I was just reading that Cummins does not warranty their RV generators if the are mounted up high. If you put the generator, batteries and water tanks all up high on the gooseneck, you will have a high centering of gravity and a large pin weight. 

I would include a black water tank in your build even if you do not use it. It will be cheaper to add it during the build rather than later in case you find the composting toilet will not work.

We currently have a total 20' living quarters area in our trailer, 12' on the floor and 8' on the gooseneck for the bed and it is pretty small. The trailer is 44' long but the rest is garage. We can manage for about 3 weeks in it. Our new trailer we hope will have 17' on the floor and 8' on the gooseneck with 2 slide outs for more space. We are going to use about 5' of the garage for a loft to gain some extra space.

Regarding using spray foam on steel, be sure you check to be sure it will not trap moisture. Some spray foam does just that and the metal will rust from the inside out.

Our trailer is about 12" from the ground to the frame with our drain pipes and door step hanging lower. We have skid bars under those items and they are always dragging. I can show you pictures of the gravel we dug up on our last camping trip. With Our new trailer, I am hoping to get the frame up at around 18" or more, plus still plan to have skid bars just in case.

You need to lay out your trailer in CAD, including a side elevation so you can what your overall height will need to be. Also you should be able to do some rough weight estimates that way too.

I think an all steel trailer is going to weigh much more than your truck can handle. Each construction has it own set of issues, but you are probably going to have to use a steel chassis and steel framework for the box, with aluminium sheeting to help on weight reduction.if that is not enough, you will need to either get a bigger truck or try the all aluminum construction like a Featherlite trailer which you can get with an LQ prep package to give you windows and door.

Dave

Thank you!

from this thread we have learned from the wisdom of going lower fresh tanks. Still want grav feed, but keep fill tanks low and 12v pump up to a grav tank as needed. 

I think we will be fine with composting ( desicaticating) toilette but I see your wisdom in prepping two "grey tanks" that one  could be changed to black if we decide. Maybe run urine to it only if we like the composting route. Few more dollars up front but good insurance. Thank you.

i think we are stuck with metal. The only builder I feel good about so far only works with steel. I would love aluminum sheet and steel frame (I have an inside source for .065 or .080 aluminum at wholesale rates) but I don't think they want to and it may be more than I can handle. 

Since this inside source came up ( I can get all aluminum extrusion and Chanel and sheet cheap) I though I might buy a big Tex and build my own walls. I can even borrow the big rivet guns. But the after seeing how the pro trailers are built it would be hard to build without large scale jigs and tools. I could do it but piece at a time would not produce the same structural integrity the pros can get.

i am excited about this but I am afraid to go down a wrong path and blow almost 3 years slaving and saving. 

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We went to Idaho DMV (very nice by the way) they said no one asks first (sometimes better to ask for forgiveness then permission). They said keep all receipts for value calculations and tax payment proof and then an investigator will come out to check road worthiness and give you a vin #. Building specs are best built for federal guidelines. So I guess  we build and hope in one hand😅

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6 hours ago, Leftishut said:

We went to Idaho DMV (very nice by the way) they said no one asks first (sometimes better to ask for forgiveness then permission). They said keep all receipts for value calculations and tax payment proof and then an investigator will come out to check road worthiness and give you a vin #. Building specs are best built for federal guidelines. So I guess  we build and hope in one hand😅

You may want to get your VIN# once you have a movable trailer and before you start doing the interior finishes. 

We are going on a factory tour today to see how some large 5th wheel cargo trailers are built and they do the living quarters ones too. If we see anything that might help you and they let us take pictures, I will see if I can post them. 

Dave

2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch
2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler
Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you!

 

Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/

for much more info on HDT's.

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I have the same truck, albeit the 250 vs the 350 version...same engine and everything else, other than rear suspension. I have had this truck for years and LOVE it...solid and reliable.

BUT...

You definitely need to keep weight in mind, and not just due to what the GVRW is. I have a 8500lb-ish (fully-loaded) RV and my truck tends to struggle quite a lot on the hills. She'll make it up but often at a crawl...these trucks just don't have the same HP that newer trucks do. So bearing that in mind I'd highly recommend keeping the entire build, including what you'll load into it, plus tanks at around the 10,000lb mark.

Gooseneck aluminum (keeps weight down) cargo trailers do exist and are probably worth taking a look at.

2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified)

2000 F-250 7.3L SRW

Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires

Latest departure date: 10/1/2017

 

Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com

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9 hours ago, DuneElliot said:

I have the same truck, albeit the 250 vs the 350 version...same engine and everything else, other than rear suspension. I have had this truck for years and LOVE it...solid and reliable.

BUT...

You definitely need to keep weight in mind, and not just due to what the GVRW is. I have a 8500lb-ish (fully-loaded) RV and my truck tends to struggle quite a lot on the hills. She'll make it up but often at a crawl...these trucks just don't have the same HP that newer trucks do. So bearing that in mind I'd highly recommend keeping the entire build, including what you'll load into it, plus tanks at around the 10,000lb mark.

Gooseneck aluminum (keeps weight down) cargo trailers do exist and are probably worth taking a look at.

Weight adds up quick. I liked the engine reputation on this truck. And it was the most powerful and reliable truck we could by for $10,000. Around 10,000lbs is what we are shooting for.

what kind of mileage do you get pulling?

if I drive truck only at 72mph I get 15-16mpg if I drive 55-60 I get 25mpg but I expect towing will destroy that. Some say it doesn't but I find that hard to believe. 

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The engine has been solid and reliable...they are good trucks and you won't have any regrets with that truck as long as you keep up on maintenance. I get around 17-18 mpg highway at around 65mph when not towing. I rarely go over 65 even when not towing.

Towing I get 9-11mpg at about 62-65mph depending on the terrain. Towing will always reduce your economy...a small, light trailer may have limited effect on it but anything over a couple thousand pounds you're going to see a difference so don't listen to those who say towing a trailer won't have an effect. 

Another thing...check to see if the air intake has been replaced...the stock ones are known for sucking debris into the engine (I had a damaged turbo because of it). I replaced mine soon after purchase...but sadly the replacement air filters that go in it are expensive.

2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified)

2000 F-250 7.3L SRW

Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires

Latest departure date: 10/1/2017

 

Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com

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