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Fulltime vs Recreational 5th Wheels


DrizztGuen

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We are planning to do fulltime in a 5th wheel and are just starting our planning. I have read multiple times where people said there are 5th wheels for fulltime and those for recreation. But so far I have not been able to find anything that explains what the difference is and how you know which 5th wheels are best for fulltime and which are best for recreation. Or does it really matter?

I would appreciate any light anyone can shed on this. Sorry if it has been asked before. I did some searches and have come up with nothing. Apparently I'm not searching the right thing.

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Depending on size and your pocket book.  Generally it's determined by the insulation factor, quality of the build, heated holding tanks, etc. but I'm not aware of an actual list that designates one built for full time and one that isn't.  You might want to look at the warranty.....if it's voided because you're living in it full time....may not be what you're looking for.

  On the smaller side, there are people full timing in Arctic Fox.  In the larger size but still affordable and the warranty stands even for full timers and the factory has great customer service is Grand Design.  Many full timers in Grand Design products.  We were looking at Tiffin Paheton and Tiffin Bus when we stumbled on the Grand Design Momentum 376TH.  The rest is history.

There are several brands that tip the upper end of the $$ scale and several other makes that are great for full timing but are no longer built.

2017 Grand Design Momentum 376TH pulled by a 2014 Ford F-350 Lariat, FX-4, dually, longbed

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2 hours ago, DrizztGuen said:

We are planning to do fulltime in a 5th wheel and are just starting our planning. I have read multiple times where people said there are 5th wheels for fulltime and those for recreation. But so far I have not been able to find anything that explains what the difference is and how you know which 5th wheels are best for fulltime and which are best for recreation. Or does it really matter?

I would appreciate any light anyone can shed on this. Sorry if it has been asked before. I did some searches and have come up with nothing. Apparently I'm not searching the right thing.

I researched for a little over a year and went to a couple RV shows.  As I was planning to full time.   I wanted a boxed frame, not an Ibeam frame. The best best suspension I could buy, Moryde IS.  I also looked at insulation values.  Also optioned the Progressive Industies EMS.  Anything I could to make the foundation the best and things to protect the onboard systems.  You need to look at it from all angles.

A lot of manufactures will not warranty a rig if used fulltime.  To me that should give you an insite on how they build them.  As the average person may only use there RV, 5ver 2-3 weeks a year.  But a full timer is in it for 365 days.

There is a TON of information out there on all makes and models.  But you should always keep in mind that most of what is posted on forums is to complain or find out how to fix what is broken.  

2015 Ram 3500 RC DRW CTD AISIN 410 rear

2016 Mobile Suites 38RSB3

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2 hours ago, DrizztGuen said:

We are planning to do fulltime in a 5th wheel and are just starting our planning. I have read multiple times where people said there are 5th wheels for fulltime and those for recreation. But so far I have not been able to find anything that explains what the difference is and how you know which 5th wheels are best for fulltime and which are best for recreation. Or does it really matter?

I would appreciate any light anyone can shed on this. Sorry if it has been asked before. I did some searches and have come up with nothing. Apparently I'm not searching the right thing.

I'm going through a similar process and have been analyzing is since January. Had to hold off on a decision due to surgery, but will finalize soon and hopefully be ready to go FT in the Spring.

For us, we started with some very high level criteria (below) and started to look as over 30 manufacturers and hundreds of models. If you visit some RV dealers, RV trade shows, perhaps a factory visit or an specific Brand Owner Group Rally once you narrow your list down, you will narrow your list very fast. When you look at the full-time criteria (below) and in particular true (don't believe the R ratings!) four seasonal and at least 3,000# CCC (2 people), the list get short very quickly.

1.           A fifth wheel designed to be moved often (designed for travel rather than one that would be placed upon a lot and either never moved or just moved once or twice a year).

2.           A fifth wheel that would be considered a "four season residential" rig that includes dual pane windows and insulation (walls, ceiling, floors, etc.).

3.           Now, by "high quality" fifth wheel, and, in general, good quality comes in packages that are heavier - heavier chassis and heavier "box" construction.   However, with that said, we wouldn't want to go too heavy, so we would want to stay somewhere in the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) range of 16,000 - 20,000 pounds (24,000 toy hauler).  

4.           We would be looking at a fifth wheel built well enough that we could expect it to last ten to twenty years under full-time use.

5.           Light enough to be within the weight ratings of at least a 1-ton diesel pick-up truck (your preferred flavor!).  DRW 24,000+.

6.           A fifth wheel in the 35- 40 foot range for total length (quoted fifth wheel lengths are often less than actual full exterior length); We would want enough living and storage space that would be both comfortable for traveling (including large holding tanks for boondocking) [Or for living in at some future time on a lot somewhere.]. Potentially up to 45 feet for a toy hauler.

7.           We would be looking for a fifth wheel with at least 3,000 lbs. of cargo carrying capacity (or at least the ability to upgrade the cargo carrying capacity to at least 3,000 lbs.). 5,200 lbs ccc toy-hauler.

After this list if got to a very short list of 5th wheel RVs very quickly, did some factory visits and will be going to some Owner Rallies soon.  Then the detailed criteria list (now over 100 items!! follows).

Be sure to decide on the 5th wheel FIRST, then the tow vehicle. Doing it the other way around leads to significant compromises and second guessing.

You criteria and short list will vary! Good luck with your search.

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Before we started fulltiming over 10 years ago. We visited the factories of over a dozen RV manufactures. We did go to shows and dealers but realized that it could be really easy to focus on floor plan, color and drapes rather that construction and quality of workmanship. There are a lot of compromises in living in an RV. Weight, carrying capacity, holding tank capacity. Already mentioned is the dual pane glass and that adds a lot of weight. We knew that as fulltimes we would not want to pay for an rv park every night for the next, however many, years. So being able to add solar, batteries was important. Batteries are heavy. 

Add to that, as a fulltimer you have all of your earthly possessions with you. tools, kitchen tool, Suit cases for the possible flight to the kids of Christmas, 7 years of Tax papers, out of season clothes, boots for Christmas with the kids on the ski slopes. All that to say you need to think of your lifestyle, and where you are going. I still work so we sometimes need two vehicles. 

All that to say there is a lot more to think about than just a home. (RV) 

Kent

2003 Volvo VLN630
2016 38 RS3 Mobile Suite
2010 Smart behind the cab

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  • 1 month later...

When we bought our 5th wheel, it was noted in the warranty that it was not to be used as a fulltime trailer.  We were fulltime from the beginning, and just ignored that issue, and had no problem getting warranty work done, the couple times we needed it.  Since our purchase, the new ones are said to be rated for fulltime use, and this with no obvious difference in construction.  I think mostly, the manufacturer realized saying they were fulltime rated was a better selling point than sticking to the more restricted warranty.  Once the 12 month warranty was up, who cares, it's on me now, and in truth, now the bugs are pretty much worked out and I do most of the repairs myself.

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13 hours ago, lockmup68 said:

Look for a used Teton, mountain Aire, new horizons, spacecraft, or continental coach. 

For example, https://pensacola.craigslist.org/rvs/d/36-teton-experience-liberty/6372211819.html

Tetons were great.....in their day but they stopped making RV's in 2008. Anything you can find is going to be 10 years old or more. I understand brand loyalty but come on. Isn't it time to stop telling people who appear to be RV newbies to buy a used 10 years old RV of any brand? A 10 year old trailer, no matter how well kept is likely to have some hidden issues. Floor rot in the slides is REAL common and if the roof isn't fiberglass, or brand new, it is time to be replaced. That is an expense that makes that "deal" not such a good "deal". It will cost $10,000 to replace a rubber roof properly. 

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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We looked and looked, compared. Got very discouraged. Found a 2003 Teton in great shape. Not one regret. I want to replace roof but nothing is wrong with it. I don't like caulking. Did replace the washing machine. Did replace an air conditioner. Have done some customizing. We are glad we have a 14 year old Teton.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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You want the frame to be  minimum of 12" deep through the length of the trailer.  Deeper if the trailer is over 35'. This can be made up of 1,2,3 pcs. A frame can be tube or I beam ( like commercial trailers). 

The frame under the front bunk will be less.

The best way to test the strength of a frame is to lift the pinbox (unloaded trailer) until the front landing gear comes off the ground.  For a trailer to last more than 5 years with full time use the pinbox should not move more than 1". . .3/4" is better.  Our trailer was 1 3/4"...adding steel and brought it down to 1".

We are not full time but we are off the pavement allot.

 

2011 Cameo 34SB3

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On 11/4/2017 at 10:59 AM, Big5er said:

Tetons were great.....in their day but they stopped making RV's in 2008. Anything you can find is going to be 10 years old or more. I understand brand loyalty but come on. Isn't it time to stop telling people who appear to be RV newbies to buy a used 10 years old RV of any brand? A 10 year old trailer, no matter how well kept is likely to have some hidden issues. Floor rot in the slides is REAL common and if the roof isn't fiberglass, or brand new, it is time to be replaced. That is an expense that makes that "deal" not such a good "deal". It will cost $10,000 to replace a rubber roof properly. 

Well, I was in the same boat. Researched for a couple of years. Almost pulled the trigger on a new one, but decided we needed to try before buying new. We bought a 10-year-old teton, rehabbed the entire thing, cheaper than a new/newish Cardinal, Cyclone, etc., and much, much better platform/foundation. Very happy with our base foundation. The Teton roofs had a 12-year warranty on them from the factory. Yes, we will probably have some issues down the road, but the quality foundation and the killer deals you can get on these coaches make it worth it IMO. Even after extensive remodel, I'm into this trailer less than book value, plus, it is really hard to find a two bedroom out there, with this type of frame, etc. 

Would it have been easier to buy new. Sure. I would have like to get a Nuwa, Mountain Aire, etc., but the two bedroom Teton came up for sale and we decided to go for it. Matches up good with our 2003 International that no one wanted. It ain't perfect, but it does the job. Will we upgrade in future. Probably, but now we will know what we really want and need. 

If you flip your hypothesis around to the trucks. Why would I spend money on a 2008 Volvo with 700k miles. Same idea, find a good deal on the right platform, put a little money into it, and come out ahead. 

 

Shannon

 

 

2003 International Eagle 9200i, Cummins ISX, Freedomline

2007 Teton Scottsdale XT4

 

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IF you have the skills to rehab an old I It that is great but for a fulltimer without the skills you do not have the ability to leave it in the shop to have the work done. Roof rot and floor rot are hard to find in a lot of cases. They also lead to further issues, wall for and mild are two. 

You analogy of a used truck isn't that good since dropping the truck off for service is much easier than dropping off your house for service. Tracking maintenance on a vehicle and inspections are also easier too.

I am not picking on Tetons, I know a guy that totally refurbed a 70's motorhome,  but they are beginning to reach the age where newbies and fulltimers alike need better options.

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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I think and don't let me put words in your mouth Big5er is saying the newbies need to fully understand the consequence of a used purchase. Like spotting soft walls and if someone is trying to cover up a mold smell or issue. Pull the trim back and look for rusted screws.  New is not always the best . However you can find some really good buys from people who bought new and decicded this was not for them. 

DizztGuen is asking for some advice and he is getting both sides which is good. They should look at videos on how to spot bad issues and how to find a good one.

My knowledge is limeted. But I am just putting in my 2 cents that is worth less than.

2011 CAN-AM Spyder Rt SE5, 2010 Alpine 5th wheel, 1998 Vovlo VNL610

Hopefully 2 years 6 month till full time retirement.

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Also add to find the quality of our Teton we would have to go custom build in today's market. I just don't want to spend that much money this late in life. Think many are in this with us. 

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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You also have to trust your instinct. We went to a large dealer and thought we would end up with a Montana fifth wheel. After going through a dozen used campers, we were impressed and bought on the spot a used Carriage Cameo. I had never even heard of the Carriage brand before our purchase and found out later the reduced price was inpart due to the recent bankruptcy. It was obvious that the Carriage camper was well built and sturdy and we have been very happy with it full timing for the past 5 years. We had a master plan to replace it after 5 years, but now don't want to part with it. I have done many modifications and over maintain this camper to extremes, but I enjoy doing that stuff.

Greg

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/2/2017 at 11:23 PM, JCZ said:

Depending on size and your pocket book.  Generally it's determined by the insulation factor, quality of the build, heated holding tanks, etc. but I'm not aware of an actual list that designates one built for full time and one that isn't.  You might want to look at the warranty.....if it's voided because you're living in it full time....may not be what you're looking for.

  On the smaller side, there are people full timing in Arctic Fox.  In the larger size but still affordable and the warranty stands even for full timers and the factory has great customer service is Grand Design.  Many full timers in Grand Design products.  We were looking at Tiffin Paheton and Tiffin Bus when we stumbled on the Grand Design Momentum 376TH.  The rest is history.

There are several brands that tip the upper end of the $$ scale and several other makes that are great for full timing but are no longer built.

I have a question entering  the purchase soon of the same camper you have. Do most campgrounds except you in or is length an issue. I am looking at a 376th . thanks

 

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15 hours ago, townehvac@gmail.com said:

I have a question entering  the purchase soon of the same camper you have. Do most campgrounds except you in or is length an issue. I am looking at a 376th . thanks

 

As you get over 40' you certainly are more likely to run into issues in smaller parks which can include state or national campgrounds that were built years ago, but it's not a huge issue.  You just have to do your homework first. We are just under 42' on the 5th wheel and towing with an HDT. So far we haven't a problem, and we've even been to a few state parks. Most times I do my research and see what kind of sites they offer, what length and width and then use google satelite or street view if possible to help me more.. You'll find most private RV parks are able to accomodate you, especially anything built in the last 10-15 years. A lot of times, I just say I'm 40ft as I find that is usually a typcial size restriction in smaller parks and really what's a couple feet, especially if you have the room to overhang the rear of the 5th wheel. Remember in a 5th wheel, in a back in site, you can overhang the site a lot easier than a 40ft+ Class A motorhome if nothing is blocking you.  

We were in a private park before the eclipse that was on the smaller side and started in a nice big area with lots of room for our truck and trailer. However, our spot was reserved for the following week and we decided to stay longer. I had the advantage of being able to walk the park to check out the sites, but I found a spot they had listed as around 34-35' max. They didn't think I was going to fit, but I had no issues getting my 42' 5th wheel in there and with the layout of the spot, I still had room to park my truck sideways in front of the trailer. I was overhanging the rear of the spot by a good bit, but it worked out great and they were impressed I actually fit in there. It ended up being a great spot. 

We spent Thanksgiving this year down in New Orleans an Bayou Segnette State park. All of their sites are paved 50' back in sites. I'm 65'  total so I knew getting the truck/trailer together in one wasn't going to happen, but I used google street view to look at each site and picked out one with no trees behind the rv pad area and it actually had 2 parking sports right next to it. I ended up not even needing to hang the 5th wheel over the back of the rv pad and still had room for our car tucked under the front of the 5th wheel and the truck took up the 2 parking spaces that were right next to our site. It just took a little preplanning to find the right site. If we hadn't had that parking avaible, I possibly still could have squeezed the truck in had I put the 5th wheel further back, but it would have been much tighter. 

In other parks, I've found that they have plenty of overflow parking so I just park my 5th wheel in the main spot and leave my HDT in an overflow area. That's actually what I'm doing at the campground I'm at right now. 

You'll get the hang of it as you travel more. 

Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK
Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin

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BTW, to the original question about about the type of 5th wheels and living full time in them. We started our full time adventure with a strict budget we needed to meet and honestly that didn't leave a lot of choices for us, especially not to get anything recent in what is generally considered the higher end rigs. We did a lot of searching and learned to look past the glitz and glammer and really focus on the core of the rig. We certainly found many that tried to make themselves appear "higher end", but in the end what's underneath is all the same and doesn't really set them apart. We found a really nice 2012 Keystone Raptor toy hauler which by no means is anything special and certainly not marketed as a full time rig. It was however very well taken care of and it's turned out to be a great rig so far, especially considering the value for the price we paid, and I'm very happy with it. Now there are certainly things I know could be better, I know even though they consider it to have an artic package, the insulation could definitely be better. We also only have single pane windows which means you do see condensation on colder days. However, overall I'm pretty impressed with our budget rig and how well it's treating us.  I'm certainly glad we didn't go out and spend high dollars on newer stuff that probably isn't that much better. It's alowed us to get into this lifestyle with a rig we can learn about it and maybe one day decide we want to spend more money on something nicer. 

Since being on the road, I've gotten to see lots of rigs, some certainly nicer that I've taken note of and others I shake my head at thinking wow that thing is only a couple years old and is falling apart. There are certainly some very nice older quality rigs out there if you can find one that was well taken care of and fits your needs, it should give you lots of good years in it. 

I've also learned that just because it is one of the higher end rigs, doesn't mean it will be problem free and if you do have problems, how well is the company going to stand behind it should be even a more important issue? I know someone that has a very expensive custom rig that they bought 2nd hand but brokered through the manufacture with a warranty in place and they are struggling with some pretty major issues and having a heck of a time to get the company to even follow through fixing it or just throwing rediculous prices at them hoping they just go away. They are still trying to work with them, but it seems the more I hear, the more I shake my head at what a time they are having with a rig that they spent a lot of money on, yet are having major structural issues with that they can't get resolved.

If you look hard enough, you'll find horror stories on any manufacture out there, so I guess it just depends on your expectations and how well you handle things that don't go as planned. 

Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK
Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin

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Finding the right rig is a problem but you'll find it. We have a 43' Mesa Ridge that states in the owners manual it is NOT intended to be a full time unit. That being said we just got back in early Nov from a 8wk run out west and we had a great time. My brother and his wife went with us but they drove their car and stayed with us whenever we parked. We had one issue (furnace) with the 5er but nothing that really interfered with our plans. We do tow with a 98 Volvo and we are 67' total length. Not once did the length present a problem. As stated before you have to call ahead and be sure that they realize what you have. The internet makes is easier to see what the CG will look like. Our 1st 5er was a 31' Sunnybrook.  Easy to tow and easy to move around. We have been towing a 5er for 14 years. We have really enjoyed each of the 4 units we have had. Never been full time but now that we are retired we do spend a lot more time on the road. Your requirements will really be the deciding issue in re guards to what you really end up with. But what ever you get make sure you can stop it. Almost any vehicle will tow it but will it wo it???  God bless and be safe.    Pat

 

 

The Old Sailor 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Jan. 5, 2006 we bought a new 2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 5th wheel. In all that time we have had absolutely NO structural issues, no leaks, no falling cabinets or loose trim, still have solid floors and snug slides. (One sticks a little.) The roof (I think it has a 15 yr warranty) is still fine although I had a fellow re-caulk all the seams and around the Hehr windows. Did the usual replacement for hot water heater, toilet and recently the refrigerator. Decals are all shot so I may have them removed some day and polish up the gelcoat.

Have lived in it full-time since day 1. Towed it about 60,000 miles. Has been in -19F and +105F for extended periods. Worked for RV dealers for three summers (are retired), have looked at every make and model available over the years, and found little new for which I would trade even! Most new are a whole lot prettier but very few are built stronger and, more importantly, recent workmanship has so significantly deteriorated that it often takes a tech a full day to just do a PDI. (Ask any tech what they think of today's quality!)

Yes, there are a few really well built units. Bring LOTS of dollars. Way more than reasonable. An older upper-end unit can be totally renovated for about a quarter of the price of an entry level new one and you will still have more quality and dependability. 

Your mileage may vary greatly. Just my opinion based on RVing since the 1970's. (22' Nomad with Torino Squire Wagon.) 

 

06 Carri-Lite 386KIQ

11 GMC 3500 D/A

"One day I will leave this world and dream myself to reality" -Crazy Horse, 1874

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  • 2 months later...

After many years RVing recreational and full timing I decided that over all weight I could comfortable tow and a livable floor plan were my priorities. I bought a 2011 Keystone Cougar knowing I would be upgrading parts of it from day one. I added steel braces to the bed frame, paid to have the cheap (broke under warrantee) braking wiring up graded, and added solar power.

Maintaining all portions of your wheel estate is vital. No matter what you decide to buy protect your investment by learning how to perform routine, seasonal and emergency maintenance. Buy the right tools and keep the right RV supplies in your RV. Join Escapees and Good Sam Club and do your homework. These are the two best clubs. The information and services they provide are affordable and priceless! Trailer Life magazine is helpful. Use You Tube to learn how perform RV skills. If you travel enough to avoid seasonal weather extremes and care for your RV it will last much longer.   

Steven Shafer

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  • 7 months later...
On 9/3/2017 at 1:45 AM, TheLongWayHome said:

I'm going through a similar process and have been analyzing is since January. Had to hold off on a decision due to surgery, but will finalize soon and hopefully be ready to go FT in the Spring.

For us, we started with some very high level criteria (below) and started to look as over 30 manufacturers and hundreds of models. If you visit some RV dealers, RV trade shows, perhaps a factory visit or an specific Brand Owner Group Rally once you narrow your list down, you will narrow your list very fast. When you look at the full-time criteria (below) and in particular true (don't believe the R ratings!) four seasonal and at least 3,000# CCC (2 people), the list get short very quickly.

1.           A fifth wheel designed to be moved often (designed for travel rather than one that would be placed upon a lot and either never moved or just moved once or twice a year).

 

2.           A fifth wheel that would be considered a "four season residential" rig that includes dual pane windows and insulation (walls, ceiling, floors, etc.).

 

3.           Now, by "high quality" fifth wheel, and, in general, good quality comes in packages that are heavier - heavier chassis and heavier "box" construction.   However, with that said, we wouldn't want to go too heavy, so we would want to stay somewhere in the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) range of 16,000 - 20,000 pounds (24,000 toy hauler).  

 

4.           We would be looking at a fifth wheel built well enough that we could expect it to last ten to twenty years under full-time use.

 

5.           Light enough to be within the weight ratings of at least a 1-ton diesel pick-up truck (your preferred flavor!).  DRW 24,000+.

 

6.           A fifth wheel in the 35- 40 foot range for total length (quoted fifth wheel lengths are often less than actual full exterior length); We would want enough living and storage space that would be both comfortable for traveling (including large holding tanks for boondocking) [Or for living in at some future time on a lot somewhere.]. Potentially up to 45 feet for a toy hauler.

 

7.           We would be looking for a fifth wheel with at least 3,000 lbs. of cargo carrying capacity (or at least the ability to upgrade the cargo carrying capacity to at least 3,000 lbs.). 5,200 lbs ccc toy-hauler.

 

After this list if got to a very short list of 5th wheel RVs very quickly, did some factory visits and will be going to some Owner Rallies soon.  Then the detailed criteria list (now over 100 items!! follows).

Be sure to decide on the 5th wheel FIRST, then the tow vehicle. Doing it the other way around leads to significant compromises and second guessing.

You criteria and short list will vary! Good luck with your search.

Great summary. We made a similar one and yes, it narrows down your choices just to a handful 5th wheels.

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