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remoandiris

How long is too long?

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I am considering a Class A for my next RV.  Coach will likely be in the 40' range.  Will also be looking for a trailer (possibly a stripped out bumper pull toy hauler) that can carry a small car, RZR and motorcycle.  

Is a 40' coach towing a 25' trailer too long for many parks and just plain driving on secondary roads?  

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2 hours ago, remoandiris said:

Is a 40' coach towing a 25' trailer too long for many parks and just plain driving on secondary roads?  

The answer just depends on where you want to go. With a combination like that, you will need to arrive very early to find a spot large enough in federal parks and campgrounds. I would also make a habit of calling ahead to commercial parks to be sure that they have a "big rig" site available for you. Many parks will require that you put the trailer in a parking area and not at the RV site. You will also find many narrow roads that are difficult to maneuver in with the rig in many campgrounds both private and public and the degree of difficulty will depend to a large extent upon your driving skills.  We have a neighbor that are both retired truck drivers and they put a 42' fifth wheel into places that most experienced RV owners would not consider. (Interestingly, both will tell you that she is the better of the two.)

I think that you would be wise to consider towing the vehicle on a 4-down method and avoid the need for the trailer. There are good reasons that the majority of us who tow with a class A choose to two on the wheels. 

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3 hours ago, remoandiris said:

...looking for a trailer...that can carry a small car, RZR and motorcycle...

 

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

...I think that you would be wise to consider towing the vehicle on a 4-down method and avoid the need for the trailer. There are good reasons that the majority of us who tow with a class A choose to two on the wheels... 

To take along an RZR and motorcycle while towing a vehicle four down may provide some challenges or limited options. The options I can think of would be a toy hauler motorhome towing a car or the motorcycle on a lift or rack on the rear of a motorhome (but then where do you put the RZR?). If you tow a pickup four down, you could carry the RZR and motorcycle in the bed of a  truck that has enough payload capacity.

Edited by trailertraveler

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It is an expensive option, but to do what you are trying to do I would look at a short stacker trailer.  You will run into the same issues Kirk mentioned with parking and maneuverability, but it is the best way to take all your toys along and keep the overall length as short as possible.

Edited by Chad Heiser

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Towing 4-down means pulling a half ton pickup with the RZR in the bed and the bike on a lift at the rear of the coach.  There is a dolly (can't remember the name) that can carry the bike and the front tires of the truck, but I do not know if it has the capacity to handle the load.

When you want all the toys, there are problems.  Everything about RVing is a compromise.

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7 hours ago, trailertraveler said:

If you tow a pickup four down, you could carry the RZR and motorcycle in the bed of a  truck that has enough payload capacity.

I believe that answers your question? It is exactly what I had in mind. 

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I know of no truck with a bed long enough, or wide enough to carry a RZR and motorcycle simultaneously.in the bed.  Even with an extension, an 8' bed is not long enough.  If someone has seen a configuration that would work, I am all ears.  And to be specific, the RZR is a 2-seater and the bike is a 500 lb VStrom.

Edited by remoandiris

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I remembered the tow dolly I was thinking of.  It is the Tandem Tow.  That will likely be the best option for me.  8K towing capacity.  Might be able to take both bikes along with a 1/2 ton p/u and RZR in the bed.  Would have to get everything weighed.

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You could be right on the space needed for both. I have seen more than one towed pickup that had a flat table on top of the truck's bed sides-rails that allowed for the side-by-side but I can't recall an added bike. Just trying to figure out a workable solution. A small motorcycle could be on a rack mounted on the front of the truck but that would not be good for a road-bike.  In order to carry all three, you may not have a choice but the trailer approach. If you do go that way, a car like the Smart would make it possible to use less trailer. Are you thinking of fulltime living? 

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1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

 Are you thinking of fulltime living? 

No, more like halftime or 7/12ths time.  Fulltime may come in the future.  To get a Smart, RZR and bike on a trailer I am still looking at 20' OAL even with the bike riding sideways.  When it comes time to pull the trigger, I will look at the Tandem Tow more closely.  I lose the chance for a work bench and air conditioning in an enclosed space, but it is much smaller.

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41 minutes ago, remoandiris said:

No, more like halftime or 7/12ths time.  Fulltime may come in the future.  To get a Smart, RZR and bike on a trailer I am still looking at 20' OAL even with the bike riding sideways.  When it comes time to pull the trigger, I will look at the Tandem Tow more closely. I lose the chance for a work bench and air conditioning in an enclosed space, but it is much smaller.

And , if you go smaller , forget about getting any workbench projects done in any kind of comfort . Guaranteed .

I've been doing without either for way too long . Is there such a thing as bench with AC sickness ( like homesick , only ... ) ?

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I carry a RZR 800 in the  bed of my pickup that I tow behind my motorhome. If I were to add a motorcycle to the mix I would put a lift onto the hitch of the motorhome and carry it there. Its definitely doable.

I have , at times, considered converting my pickup to a flat bed to give me more carrying capacity for a wider side by side.

the advantage I like with towing 4 down is that I can very easily detach the pickup and scout ahead for camping sites both RV parks and boondocking.

Edited by Jimalberta

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We carry a RZR and a car on our HDT.  We have a older RZR 800 and carry it sideways under the front of the car with the rollbar carried separately. Our RZR is 102" long.The length of our setup is 70' with a 40' 5er.  We don't go to a lot of campgrounds but when we do it has been manageable. Depending on the width/length of your RZR it might be possible to carry the RZR and motorcycle side by side on a flat bed PU.

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Any thoughts on making the RZR street legal and forgoing the truck? Would that fit your situation at all?

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On 11/3/2017 at 7:37 AM, Black said:

Any thoughts on making the RZR street legal and forgoing the truck? Would that fit your situation at all?

Not all states allow ATV/UTV usage on roads and the ones that do have certain restrictions whether it is "street legal" or not. 

http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/ATV_Roads_and_Leg_History_Chart_FINAL_5_1_14.pdf

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2 hours ago, Chalkie said:

Not all states allow ATV/UTV usage on roads and the ones that do have certain restrictions whether it is "street legal" or not. 

http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/ATV_Roads_and_Leg_History_Chart_FINAL_5_1_14.pdf

That information seems a tad bit outdated and refers to operating atv's on roads, not the actual conversion to make them street legal, i.e. Insured,  registered, dot equipment, plated, etc.

For example, that guideline shows NC as a "no" but I've seen several plated UTVs on the street there. 

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Main  factor to consider; towing capacity of the MH, most 40' diesel pusher MH's have a 10,000# hitch and maximum towing capacity(provided your coach is not over the limit within the GCWR.) To obtain a higher towing capacity one may be required to move to a MH with a tag-axle = 45'.

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 9:37 AM, Pat & Pete said:

.

 

Humm, don't know where that Pat&Pete quote came from. I did quote them in a different forum?????.

 

Edited by Ray,IN

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1 hour ago, Ray,IN said:

Main  factor to consider; towing capacity of the MH, most 40' diesel pusher MH's have a 10,000# hitch and maximum towing capacity(provided your coach is not over the limit within the GCWR.) To obtain a higher towing capacity one may be required to move to a MH with a tag-axle = 45'.

Humm, don't know where that Pat&Pete quote came from. I did quote them in a different forum?????.

 

I think you just like dropping names , Ray . LOL ;)

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21 hours ago, Black said:

That information seems a tad bit outdated and refers to operating atv's on roads, not the actual conversion to make them street legal, i.e. Insured,  registered, dot equipment, plated, etc.

For example, that guideline shows NC as a "no" but I've seen several plated UTVs on the street there. 

The reason that certain cars are no longer sold in the U.S. is because they are unable or unwilling to go to the expense the government requires to make them fully legal such as front and rear impact and emissions. There is no way that an ATV/UTV can pass that criteria. Now, I agree, that ATV/UTV can be "street legal" in a limited capacity in certain states and areas.

However, unlike a license plate on a car, I will promise you that you can not just drive a "plated" ATV/UTV anywhere you want. Not to mention, who would want to? The thought of operating our UTV at highway speeds with its less than stable steering, no shoulder strap, NO protection from impact scares the living daylights out of me. 

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13 hours ago, Chalkie said:

The reason that certain cars are no longer sold in the U.S. is because they are unable or unwilling to go to the expense the government requires to make them fully legal such as front and rear impact and emissions. There is no way that an ATV/UTV can pass that criteria. Now, I agree, that ATV/UTV can be "street legal" in a limited capacity in certain states and areas.

However, unlike a license plate on a car, I will promise you that you can not just drive a "plated" ATV/UTV anywhere you want. Not to mention, who would want to? The thought of operating our UTV at highway speeds with its less than stable steering, no shoulder strap, NO protection from impact scares the living daylights out of me. 

Right! I had that conversation with a man several years ago. He said he rewired his electric golf cart(don't have a clue how) so he could reach top speed, then throw a switch to make the cart run 50 MPH. I said OK__ what did you do to increase braking ability to match that top speed? After some stammering and hesitation, he just  stopped talking about his "invention".

Just because it can be done, doesn't make it right. Last year a girl was killed riding an ATV in a local forest, which has to be safer than WOT on a busy highway.

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On 11/5/2017 at 3:09 PM, Chalkie said:

.... There is no way that an ATV/UTV can pass that criteria. Now, I agree, that ATV/UTV can be "street legal" in a limited capacity in certain states and areas.

However, unlike a license plate on a car, I will promise you that you can not just drive a "plated" ATV/UTV anywhere you want..... 

Chalkie,

It’s legal to do so in almost half of the United States, and there are a few companies that make street-legal kits for UTVs and ATVs. Today’s UTVs already have most of the required equipment such as mufflers, seat belts, headlights, taillights and brake lights. OHV-friendly states like West Virginia let OHVs travel city streets on the Hatfield-McCoy trail system, and Utah recently passed a law saying UTVs were legal on every street except Interstates (I-15 and I-70) or in Salt Lake City. In fact, most states allow counties and towns to set their own standards, and Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Texas, Minnesota, Wyoming, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Montana, North and South Dakota, Washington, Michigan, Kentucky, Nebraska, Ohio, Vermont, Wisconsin, New Hampshire, Tennessee and Colorado (HB15-1054) have laws allowing the street-legalization of OHVs.

Besides OEM equipment, Arizona requires a horn that can be heard 250 feet away and rear-view mirror(s), which the plus a license-plate bracket with light. Many states (NV, WA, etc.) require that UTVs only be operated on county (general and minor) roads with speed limits of 45 mph and lower. Tennessee requires UTVs only go 35 mph and you need DOT-approved tires like the GBC Kanati Mongrel and an orange tractor triangle on the rear end. Other states (UT, TX, WY, etc.) require amber front and red rear turn signals and lit license-plate brackets.

Here's an article that talks more about the changes in UT.

http://www.standard.net/Recreation/2015/04/22/Changes-in-law-impact-street-legal-ATVs

Unlike UT, there are other States that do allow interstate highway operation provided the vehicle meets minimum engine size and other requirements. That said, UT allows that a non resident operator who is authorized on highways in another state can operate as a street legal ATV in Utah if that state reciprocates a Utah street legal ATV on the other state’s highways.

On 11/5/2017 at 3:09 PM, Chalkie said:

The thought of operating our UTV at highway speeds with its less than stable steering, no shoulder strap, NO protection from impact scares the living daylights out of me. 

Many people feel the same way about motorcycles but there are also many who are just as happy to cruise down the highway on a motorcycle at 75-80 mph with no helmet and surrounded by distracted drivers in 5k lb hunks of steel right next to them. 

 

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4 hours ago, Black said:

It’s legal to do so in almost half of the United States, and there are a few companies that make street-legal kits for UTVs and ATVs. Today’s UTVs already have most of the required equipment such as mufflers, seat belts, headlights, taillights and brake lights. OHV-friendly states like West Virginia let OHVs travel city streets on the Hatfield-McCoy trail system, and Utah recently passed a law saying UTVs were legal on every street except Interstates (I-15 and I-70) or in Salt Lake City. In fact, most states allow counties and towns to set their own standards, and Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Texas, Minnesota, Wyoming, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Montana, North and South Dakota, Washington, Michigan, Kentucky, Nebraska, Ohio, Vermont, Wisconsin, New Hampshire, Tennessee and Colorado (HB15-1054) have laws allowing the street-legalization of OHVs.

 

You basically reiterated what I had said. "Now, I agree, that ATV/UTV can be "street legal" in a limited capacity in certain states and areas."

You pointed out that there were limitations, such as allowing counties and towns to set their own standards. This means that not ALL counties or towns within a state may allow the operation. I still am unaware of a state that will allow ATV/UTVs to be operated in all areas of a state. I am not willing to do all the research needed to site specific laws in all states regarding this matter as it really is not germane, since it is already established that they can not be operated everywhere. 

As for HB15-1054 in Colorado (I assume you chose that as that is where I live) that bill went down in flames. Even the ATV/UTV owners were against the bill.

So again, they can be street legal in a limited capacity in certain states and areas.

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1 hour ago, Chalkie said:

You basically reiterated what I had said. "Now, I agree, that ATV/UTV can be "street legal" in a limited capacity in certain states and areas."

You pointed out that there were limitations, such as allowing counties and towns to set their own standards. This means that not ALL counties or towns within a state may allow the operation. I still am unaware of a state that will allow ATV/UTVs to be operated in all areas of a state. I am not willing to do all the research needed to site specific laws in all states regarding this matter as it really is not germane, since it is already established that they can not be operated everywhere. 

As for HB15-1054 in Colorado (I assume you chose that as that is where I live) that bill went down in flames. Even the ATV/UTV owners were against the bill.

So again, they can be street legal in a limited capacity in certain states and areas.

Chalkie,

In NC, you can operate a UTV as a fully street legal vehicle. I am a Federal LEO and have interacted with NC State LEO's who have unequivocally stated that certain UTV's can be licensed as a street legal vehicle with no restrictions. This came up during a motorcycle club (MC) case where the MC had street legal UTVs. Since most States have some form of reciprocity such as Utah, that means a UTV can legally be operated with no restrictions there as well.

By including the multitude of examples in my previous post (and no, I didn't know you were from CO), I was simply showing that there are multiple possibilities for jurisdictions, such as the State of NC, to allow UTV usage as a street legal vehicle. I too do not have time, nor am I willing to do all the research, however for someone who is trying to overcome the obstacle of a pickup truck/UTV/motorcycle conumdrum, it's helpful to know that there are States in the US that allow full usage (not in a limited capacity) of a UTV as a street-legal vehicle. To be fair, there are also States that only allow them to be used in a limited capacity.

OP knows his State and should he wish to use his UTV as a fully street legal vehicle, that may be an option as there are definitively US States that allow this to occur.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Black said:

Chalkie,

...Unlike UT, there are other States that do allow interstate highway operation provided the vehicle meets minimum engine size and other requirements. That said, UT allows that a non resident operator who is authorized on highways in another state can operate as a street legal ATV in Utah if that state reciprocates a Utah street legal ATV on the other state’s highways.

As I said in my former post, there are States that do not limit licensed UTV usage, including interstate highways, i.e. no limitations.

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2 hours ago, Black said:

As I said in my former post, there are States that do not limit licensed UTV usage, including interstate highways, i.e. no limitations.

I do not care what you do, or what you think you know, you can throw all the states at me that do or might allow them but it does not alter what I am saying. My point, which you clearly are not acceding to,  is that they ARE NOT STREET LEGAL in all states or even in all areas of certain states. Period. I have no further comments on the topic.

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