Too muddy for NP

[fly2low]

Just passing this on so you are aware

My Toad is a Jeep Wrangler, which I take off-road at every opportunity.  The opportunities for off-roading exceed the availability of car washes in places I tend to go.  Besides, it is a Jeep, built to be abused, so who cares how it looks.

Well, it turns out that the gate keeper at Yellowstone cares, and I was turned away for being "too muddy".  I am not complaining, as I actually understand the "why" of this policy - I was just not aware

[rynosback]

Maybe they think that you will go off road when you are not supposed too.  Seeing that the Jeep was so muddy, they know you go off road.  

[Devilishjim]

I managed a duck hunting club and the quads were mostly quite muddy when they came it, If they parked at the wash station fine but if they parked where vehicles do in the parking lot, I would have gobs of mud falling off the quads leaving me a total uncalled for mess to clean up and even if its dry and falls off it still leaves a big dirt clod or if it rains a pile of mud. Traveling down the highway and a big chunk falls off you can be cited for it. Hope this helps you understand. Maybe your screen name says it all FLYTOLOW.  The safest thing in a plane is altitude

[fly2low]

I did not ask the "why", but assumed it was due to parasite control.  There have been issues with parasites being transported from one body of water to the next via boats and felt bottomed wading boots. You can look up "Whirling disease".  Not a trivial problem, especially in an area where a significanr portion of their annual income is derived from fly fishermen.  There are now recommendations to clean boots with a chlorine solution, and MT has watercraft inspection stations at its' borders in this area.  Or, it may simply have been a cleanliness issue.  Like I said, I did not have a problem with the policy.  I was just not aware of it.

[Ronbo]

Sounds uncalled for since they have a huge section of road construction going on and if you go through it you will be muddy. Also the trucks carry dirt into the park every day for this construction. 

[Chad Heiser]

It is all about spreading invasive species and has nothing to do with cleanliness.  National parks and the like are very particular about what is introduced into the eco system for which they are responsible.  When I worked on our mounted enforcement unit, if we used our horses in any state or national parks, we had to feed them certified weed free hay only.  If we fed them anything that could potentially have weed seeds or the like, the horses could not be used in the parks.  This was because the parks did not want the horse manure left behind by our horses to have anything in it that could introduce a new species of plant or invasive weed or whatever.  

In the case of a Jeep covered in mud, it would be the same principle.  The parks do the best they can to stop the spread of invasive species.  It still happens, but they at least try to stop the obvious pathways from making it happen more easily. 

[Vladimir]

Your probably right, but the NPS owes him an explanation as to the reason.

I would not take no for an answer, but then again I believe the public lands belong to the American people, not Park Service employees. I even felt that way when I worked for the Park Service!

[TheDuke]

Does that mean that a member of "the public " can do whatever they want? Like drive anywhere, or cut any tree, set up a RV in your campsite? 

[chirakawa]

10 hours ago, Vladimir said:

Your probably right, but the NPS owes him an explanation as to the reason.

I would not take no for an answer, but then again I believe the public lands belong to the American people, not Park Service employees. I even felt that way when I worked for the Park Service!

I also believe that public lands belong to the American people.............and I'm so glad that we have dedicated Park Service employees there to protect and preserve it for all of us to use in a reasonable and sharing manner.

[Vladimir]

2 hours ago, chirakawa said:

I also believe that public lands belong to the American people.............and I'm so glad that we have dedicated Park Service employees there to protect and preserve it for all of us to use in a reasonable and sharing manner.

Sorry, for the confusion. I would not take NO for an answer without a EXPLANATION. All government employees owe an explanation for their actions to the public.

Yep, Park Service employees do real well on protecting and preserving the National Parks. I would just like them to realize that the American public deserves to be treated with respect. To many National Park employees view the public as the problem.

[Big5er]

Vlad, did you READ this thread? The original poster said 

"I did not ask the "why", but assumed it was due to parasite control.  There have been issues with parasites being transported from one body of water to the next via boats and felt bottomed wading boots. You can look up "Whirling disease".  Not a trivial problem, especially in an area where a significant portion of their annual income is derived from fly fishermen.  There are now recommendations to clean boots with a chlorine solution, and MT has watercraft inspection stations at its' borders in this area.  Or, it may simply have been a cleanliness issue.  Like I said, I did not have a problem with the policy. "

Why do you think they OWE him an explanation when he doesn't have an issue with being told his Jeep was too muddy. He says he didn't ask, and has no issues. 

It sounds to me like he already knew what the issue was without needing it explained. And then you come along saying he is owed something he didn't require or ask for. Why?

[bigjim]

So what would it have hurt for the employee to offer and explanation. Good communication leads to good results in most cases.   I think I helped myself dodge a speeding ticket on Tuesday by using good communication. " Thank you Trooper Millier for your kind consideration."

[Devilishjim]

OH YEAH WALKING UP TO A CAMPER IN A PISSED OFF MOOD IS JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE..LOL Actally they should stop all birds from flying over too. All that seed getting dropped and fertilized too. All them ducks n geese migrating, sheesh this should give poloticians another 100 yrs of jobs

[Big5er]

No one said it would hurt to explain, but if the OP is intelligent enough to understand without needing an explanation then why is one necessary?  

If your father says "Son, you should probably shut off the water before you disconnect that faucet" or "you should shut off the electricity before you twist those wires together".  Do you simply realize that Dad is keeping you from making a wet mess or electrocuting yourself, or do you demand an explanation?

[bigjim]

fly2low comes across as an intelligent, friendly soul and maybe a bit more knowledgeable than quite a few but that doesn't mean he would not appreciate an expanation.  Most people do and again it hurt nothing and might generate a little good will.  After all in all technicallity the public is the employer of government employees.  I have been one and am currently an unpaid one and I try to practice that view.  We are currently dealing with a situation that has a lot of people in this area upset.  I don't even like it but someone is making their best guess on how to deal with protecting the resource and the public. Most of them seem to feel better if they get a reasonable explantion. Each person can do as they wish but that is the way I see it.

I did NOT say anyone said it would hurt anything.  I said it in a general observation.

Again thank you Trooper Miller as I was guilty by being careless.  In truth I blame it slightly on my stupid trifocals but it is still on me to get it right when I am driving.

[fly2low]

Well this post has taken an interesting turn.  I meant for this post to raise awareness of a situation, so someone would not be in a situation like I was.  Finding a car wash in West Yellowstone was not easy

Let's review the facts.  Invasive species are a real problem.  Whirling disease, zebra mussels in the Great Lakes, and the list goes on.  I am aware of the problem.  And even if my access was declined for simple cleanliness, my vehicle was a mess.  I knew it was one of the two, and it did not matter.

Now as to the gate keeper being an employee of mine.  This is absolutely true.  I pay a lot of taxes, and she is paid by them.  A couple of points are relevant.

  1.   All employees deserve to be treated with respect

  2.  The park services are underfunded, and their moral is suffering

  3.  I have been in positions where I have needed to negotiate with parties where I had the leverage, and where the other party had the leverage.  This was a negotiation, whether she realized it or not.  She had the leverage.  No matter how I played it, I was going to have to turn around and clean off the vehicle.  I knew it.  I could have been a dick and asked why, pointed out to her that she worked for me, or asked to speak to her supervisor.  All that would have been accomplished was that I would be washing my jeep 5-10 minutes later.  Her day would have been ruined and my blood pressure would have gone up.  A whole lot of negative energy would have been generated, and the outcome would have been the same. 

Like I said earlier, I had no problem with the way she handled the situation. 

[Big5er]

2 hours ago, fly2low said:

 Like I said earlier, I had no problem with the way she handled the situation. 

And there you have it. No matter who says or thinks differently, that is all that matters.

[Yarome]

3 hours ago, fly2low said:

I could have been a dick and asked why, pointed out to her that she worked for me, or asked to speak to her supervisor.

Her day would have been ruined and my blood pressure would have gone up.

...the outcome would have been the same. 

That sums it up perfectly and my feeling as well.

I would have some choice words for folks that pull crap like that just because they feel they are somehow entitled... oblivious to the fact that they are disrespecting everyone else around them... but I'll keep it to myself. 

BTW - Fly2low... thanks for the heads up! A couple of my kids are headed that way as we speak and he's not necessarily know for keeping his little 4X4 "uncaked". 

[jpcoll01]

5 hours ago, fly2low said:

  3.  I have been in positions where I have needed to negotiate with parties where I had the leverage, and where the other party had the leverage.  This was a negotiation, whether she realized it or not.  She had the leverage.  No matter how I played it, I was going to have to turn around and clean off the vehicle.  I knew it.  I could have been a dick and asked why, pointed out to her that she worked for me, or asked to speak to her supervisor.  All that would have been accomplished was that I would be washing my jeep 5-10 minutes later.  Her day would have been ruined and my blood pressure would have gone up.  A whole lot of negative energy would have been generated, and the outcome would have been the same. 

Like I said earlier, I had no problem with the way she handled the situation. 

Everyone could stand to read this, it has taken me many years (probably too many) to get there, but I couldn't agree more.  She's doing her job and enforcing rules that she didn't make.  

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

One thing to keep in mind is yes, they are technically your employee, but in the grand scheme your portion of her paycheck is so small that if you didn't pay your share she probably wouldn't even notice............

[bigjim]

I think I love fly2low. Not eveyone we deal with is as cool and knowledgeable.  But most are pretty nice. I explain to lots of them about issues because they may not be as knowledgeable and most are appreciative and sometimes it leads to interaction that helps us/me learn something.  I have found from experience that too much information is far better than not enought. Right now we are selling the heck out of the Senior pass'  before they go up to $80. so we are getting lots of interaction.  As I said it is MY view since we are the government agency regulating their use or their (public) lands we owe them an explanation expecially if they ask for one.  Since I am not a mind reader I don't know who knows what or is knowledgeable like fly2low I tend to offer and explanation.  That being said employees are not meant to be punching bags althought they are largely thought of that way for most politicians it seems.  I have gotten bitched out by a few folks when they have seen me clean a toilet and put out paper when I am clearly a volunteer trying to make their visit more pleasant.  Fortunately the good ones far outweigh the others and even make up for the butt heads.  I' ll keep doing what I do and if that bothers anyone then  so be it.