Champion 3,400-Watt Dual Fuel Generator.

[jerryneal]

I'm getting hit and miss information on the Champion 3,400-Watt Dual Fuel generator. I need something for summer overnight boondocking to run a 15k BTU air conditioner in the 5th wheel.  Propane is a cool option, but no problem burning gas for the extra wattage. Anyone used this generator/inverter?

[Yarome]

Unfortunately, it's going to be a 50/50 proposition if it will indeed run your 15k. Some aircon's it will work with, but may not work for all.

The "start-up" wattage is 3.4k, however, it has a very short start period (length of time that it is able to maintain 3.4k watts) that may not be sufficient to turn over many 15k aircons. 3.1k is the sustained wattage output, and would keep it running in moderate temperatures and elevations.

A 15k aircon will typically require 15-16 amps while running and about double that for start-up. How that translates.... 3100 watts is approx. 25 amps. So you're good while it's running. However, 3400 watts is only 28 amps. Your 15k aircon may require 32 amps or more for initial startup.

Running LP can be an excellent option for clean burning fuel with a very long shelf life, but be aware that your generator output will be reduced by approx. 10%. So... 2790 watts sustained. Or.... 3060 watts "start-up" (only 25.5 amps available for "start-up" of the, likely, 30-32 amps required by your 15k AC).

So the main points of concern are:

1. Is the 3.4k wattage sustained long enough to turn over your 15k?

2. Will your 15k even do a start-up with max.... 28 amps?

3. LP is likely not an option to turn over your AC since max output is likely more in the 25 amp range.

Bear in mind.. all the above numbers are for a generator running at sea level, moderate temperatures and at max peak efficency. Real world application? That combination doesn't usually exist.

It is also important to bear in mind that other loads may also affect the generators ability to turn over a 15k AC. Even @ 3100 watts (25 amps) and your AC running (15 amps) that doesn't leave a lot of room for additional loads. Just something to be aware of.

Conclusion: Will it? It's possible on gasoline, but within a VERY small margin.

My suggestions? You're likely better off going with dual 2000 watt portables (parallelled)... which might still stuggle with a 15k... or a 4000 watt generator. 

 

[Pappy Yokum]

Don't have the model you're asking about - maybe Yarome does.

My Yam 2400is (on gasoline) will start and run my 15 with hard start just fine. It struggles to get the 13.5 going - no hard start.

Nothing else running at same time, of course.

Haven't tried it on propane (I converted it to tri-fuel for home use) & won't bother to try the ACs on propane. 

BTW - gens on propane are "hungry" and it's easier to feed 'em gas than propane.

Yarome's suggestion is good.  However,  still waiting on his "follow-up" for OC diesel location/s!, LOL!

 

 

[GlennWest]

Highest draw from my mini split unit is 7 amps. Just saying. There are ways to do this.

[Kirk W]

10 hours ago, Yarome said:

Conclusion: Will it? It's possible on gasoline, but within a VERY small margin.

Has anyone loaded a portable generator to the point that it exceeds the capacity of the generator output? If you do so, what happens? Does it trip a breaker on the generator or stall it or............................. ?  Just wondering.

[TheLongWayHome]

Will a soft-start modification to the A/C help with the start-up current issues? Trade-offs?

[rvrev2]

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

Has anyone loaded a portable generator to the point that it exceeds the capacity of the generator output? If you do so, what happens? Does it trip a breaker on the generator or stall it or............................. ?  Just wondering.

Howdy Kirk,

We overloaded a generator (too many items running), and the breaker tripped.  The engine continued running, but there was no electricity being generated.  We reduced the number of items running off of it, reset the breaker, and all was well.

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

23 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

Has anyone loaded a portable generator to the point that it exceeds the capacity of the generator output? If you do so, what happens? Does it trip a breaker on the generator or stall it or............................. ?  Just wondering.

I have a 3,000 watt generator that has a 20A breaker and is not an inverter type. My last trailer had a 13,500 BTU AC. I had zero problems running the AC. The only real problem with the genny is that the frequency is not at 60 hz and the digital clocks don't keep accurate time.

[JohnNJean]

I have a 3kw Champion that I have converted to run LP.  For me, LP is the way to go as it eliminates the carb problems that are inevitable with today's crummy gas and the irregular use most generators get.  I find it much easier to toss a couple of LP bottles in the back of the truck than mess with gas cans.  YMMV.

The only drawback - for me - is the 3kw size generators are to big to easily load in the truck.  I can do it, but I use the loader on my tractor and save my back.  The generator stays in the truck while we're camping and that also seems to mitigate the noise somewhat.

FWIW, note that inverter generators are noise rated at half load and will be about the same noise level as a non-inverter unit of the same size when running an AC unit.

Last summer, I decided to look in to using a 2000 watt Champion to run my 15k AC unit.  the 3kw unit has no trouble running the AC - even on LP - but I thought the lighter weight of the 2000 watt unit might be nice.  Note that I wasn't about to spend $1000 for the Honda 2kw to replace a perfectly good 3kw, but for the price difference I thought it might be worthwhile.

In short, the Honda 2000 watt inverter generator will runn a 15k AC unit WITH A MICROAIR start board installed.  However, the Champion 2000 watt unit just doesn't have the guts to get the job done.

I highly recommend the Microair unit.  Their customer support is beyond excellent.  They said they had tested the Honda on a 15k AC with no problems and when I told them I wanted to try a Champion they went out and purchased one to test.  Their high dollar test equipment determined that the Honda put out a higher startup current than the Champion. The Champion would start the fan, but wouldn't start the compressor.

Anyway, to answer your question - I wouldn't have any reservations about being able to run a 15k AC unit on a Champion generator of 3kw or larger - using gasoline or LP.

Best,

John

[Kirk W]

30 minutes ago, JohnNJean said:

I highly recommend the Microair unit.

I went to the Microair website and looked at them but am unable to find much technical information about their products or any sort of manuals online. Does it install into the a/c unit, connect between it and the power cord or.....................? At a purchase price of $300, it is a little pricey for the limited amount that I would use it.

[JohnNJean]

Go to airforums.com and do a search for Microair easy start - couple of great threads there and a discount code.

There are also several Youtube videos that I think are linked from the Microair website.  Sorry I can't post links from this tablet.

As I remember, there is a nicely packaged easy start in a fancy box and a less expensive bare bones board that anyone with basic electrical skills can easily mount.  In fact, in my unit, the stand alone board was a better fit.

The Microair is much more than just an easy start cap.  My intention was to use it to enable a Champion 2000 watt gen to run my AC.  Turned out that the Champion wouldn't do its part (the Honda gen does work).  However, I was so impressed with both the product and customer service that I kept it even though they offered me a full refund.  

[jerryneal]

Thanks all for the response. I'm going to give it a try without the Microaire for now. I also spoke with others that had good success. I'll update with the results. 

[Yarome]

There is a cheaper option that may help assist startup. Many, including myself, have installed a hard start capacitor. Which one you would need would depend on your unit, but "most" can take a Supco SPP6 that can make a world of difference.

Note: If you read through the mod page, be sure to read all of the comments. There is some discussion about different caps that may apply to your particular situation.

[Yarome]

On 7/15/2017 at 7:26 AM, TheLongWayHome said:

Will a soft-start modification to the A/C help with the start-up current issues? Trade-offs?

Very likely. Tade-offs? There are some situations where adding in a soft-start (or more commonly referred to as a hard-start) capacitor that "could" potentially cause damage to the compressor. In recent years though, those issues are being introduced with electronically controlled caps (which I have never used). I should say... I have "heard" it "could" cause damage, but don't know of anyone that runs a hard-start mod that has ever had an issue. It's one of the first mods I do on a new rig and I guess the air conditioner God's have always been with me. 

This is a good primer if you're looking in to do so.

[Yarome]

On 7/15/2017 at 7:07 AM, Kirk Wood said:

Has anyone loaded a portable generator to the point that it exceeds the capacity of the generator output? If you do so, what happens? Does it trip a breaker on the generator or stall it or............................. ?  Just wondering.

What rvrev2 said. You'll notice it, of course, when your genny suddenly drops RPMS, but it doesn't stall out. Personally, I don't like to just cut a load and reset the breaker. I'll do a full shut off, restart, then put loads back on one at a time. 

[Kirk W]

On 7/15/2017 at 10:55 AM, rvrev2 said:

We reduced the number of items running off of it, reset the breaker, and all was well.

Thanks for the response. I just bought a slightly used, Honda 2000i and have not yet tested to see if it will supply the a/c, but suspect that it might since I have used it many times when connected to a typical 15a house outlet. Think that I should test it before spending any money.  We used to travel in motorhomes with built-in generators. 

[Yarome]

On 7/14/2017 at 8:41 PM, Pappy Yokum said:

still waiting on his "follow-up" for OC diesel location/s!, LOL!

Sorry about that, Pappy! With this new forum layout, if threads go lower than 5 or 6 clicks on "show more" they are lost to me. 

It wasn't at all any kind of comprehensive search. I just typed in "biodiesel orange county". I ignored the "biodiesel finder" pages and I think it was yelp that listed several reviews of OC stations entitled "best biodiesel in Orange County". Something like that, anyway.

[Yarome]

11 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

...but suspect that it might since I have used it many times when connected to a typical 15a house outlet.

It's more than likely. I know quite a number of folks that use H or Y 2000's to turn their 13.5k's. I installed a HS Cap just so it doesn't have to work so hard at startup, and I anticipated that it might struggle a bit more at higher elevations, but it ran just fine before the mod. On the other hand.. some of the other brand's seem to be extremely hit and miss as to which can and which can't.