Tow vehicle concern

[297550]

On 7/8/2017 at 1:50 PM, remoandiris said:

My next truck will be a SRW if it has the carrying capacity I need.  There are times a dually is more of a pain than they are worth.  In 6 yrs of traveling, I have yet to feel any kind of crosswind that would give me pause to tow with a SRW.  If the winds are that bad, find a campground and sit for a few days. 

Duallies do NOT come with TPMS.  IIRC, SRW 1-tons do come with it.  I have had a TST 507 Flow Thru system on my trailer for a few years.  I plan to get them for my truck, too.  Already have the metal valve stems.  Just have to install the flexible steel extensions on the rear wheels.  That is an added pain of duallies, but at least it is only a 1-time pain.

No longer true.  The new dually’s have TPMS.  The main benefit of a dually is that they can carry a much heavier pin weight.

[Jaydrvr]

27 minutes ago, 297550 said:

Nitrogen does have benefits.  It is an inert gas and will not support combustion, so it eliminates tire fires.  It also will run a little cooler and not experience as much pressure loss over time.  The first point (non combustible) is an important factor in many heavy duty applications.  No, it isn’t “magic” ... but to dismiss it as “worthless”, seems misinformed.  It isn’t a huge improvement over regular air, but it is better.

Sooo.... Somehow magically it eliminates the oxygen OUTSIDE the tire, hence eliminating tire fires?? Where do I sign up?!

[297550]

14 minutes ago, Jaydrvr said:

Sooo.... Somehow magically it eliminates the oxygen OUTSIDE the tire, hence eliminating tire fires?? Where do I sign up?!

Tire fires start internally.  Nice try though 😂

[Big5er]

None of the web pages I have read say anything about nitrogen eliminating tire fires. Please explain to me how a tire catches fire from the inside?

Also, I would be willing to bet that a tire that gets hot enough to burst into flames will rupture long before it catches fire. 

[remoandiris]

10 hours ago, 297550 said:

Tire fires start internally.  Nice try though 😂

Can you cite a source to support your statement that tire fires only start internally?

[Kirk W]

8 hours ago, Big5er said:

Also, I would be willing to bet that a tire that gets hot enough to burst into flames will rupture long before it catches fire. 

That makes sense to me as last summer I observed a car-fire in the engine compartment where the heat did cause a front tire to explode. The fire department arrived moments later to douse the fire but it didn't appear that the tires ever did catch fire. Some years ago, Myth Busters did a show to test if spinning street tires like race drivers do could cause one to catch fire and the result was negative. 

[remoandiris]

12 hours ago, 297550 said:

Nitrogen does have benefits.  It is an inert gas and will not support combustion, so it eliminates tire fires.  It also will run a little cooler and not experience as much pressure loss over time.  The first point (non combustible) is an important factor in many heavy duty applications.  No, it isn’t “magic” ... but to dismiss it as “worthless”, seems misinformed.  It isn’t a huge improvement over regular air, but it is better.

Myth: Pure nitrogen-filled tires will run cooler. 
This is another myth that is tied to the assumption that consumers will not check their air pressures often enough. Simply having a different type of gas in your tires will not make them run cooler.  

https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/make-driving-fun/pure-nitrogen-in-tires-facts-and-myths-v1

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/nitrogen-vs-air

An opposing view;

http://www.greggsauto.net/2013/05/6-facts-about-nitrogen-filled-car-tires/

[jc2]

I will be staying with good ole air for my vehicle/rv tires to avoid all the drama. 

[noteven]

Their have been instances of the volatile compounds in heavy aircraft tires that are severely overheated by dragging brakes igniting, or "exploding" if  air inflated (oxygen is present) and the volatile compounds reach the "auto ignition" point. 

Service info for your Boeing airplane.

How can anything light on fire from the inside?  Inject atomized diesel fuel into a cylinder that is filled with air at around 400 psi compression pressure ...

The engine won't start breathing nitrogen. 

Fortunately I keep my rigs wheels on the ground so I am running the common 78% nitrogen blend. 

If you regularly get your brakes smoking on gravity assisted sections of road, nitrogen could be beneficial from a roasting tire catching fire from the inside. 

 

 

[gjhunter01]

Tire fires are not very high on my list of worries while driving. Nitrogen tires are just a fad ( I thought it had already faded away), not worth the effort/expense and will never become mainstream.

Greg

[Pat & Pete]

Maybe just a fad , but it's a good one .

[TXiceman]

DRW totally depends on the actual loaded pin weight of the trailer and the trucks GAWR on the rear.  I doubt if your pin weight is 2400# when loaded.  I would suspect a loaded trailer weight of 15000 to 16000 # on a Redwood.  Your pin weight will be closer to 3000 to 3200#.  I would not use a SRW truck for this much weight.

On the nitrogen issue, for trailer tires and truck tires it is 99% bull.  Fires on these tires is nil and the small amount of oxygen is not a problem.  Looks at Boyle's Law for pressure temperature relations of gasses.

 

Ken

[Al F]

100% Nitrogen in tires for cars/trucks/RV's is just marketing hype.   In fact it could be dangerous.

Dangerous IF you were to delay adding air to your tire(s) if they are maybe 5 pounds below proper inflation pressure, because you don't want to contaminate the 100% nitrogen.  So you drive some 100(s) of miles to go to a place where you can get more nitrogen.  Mean while the pressure has dropped even more in the drive.  This will stress the tire(s) with low pressure. Not that the stress will immediately cause a failure.  However now that the tire is stress, you have more exposure to a tire failure in the future.

 

[Al F]

For a really excellent discussion of nitrogen in tires read these blog entries from a retired Tire Design and Quality Engineer.

You don't have to believe everything he says, but this is one of the most logical and persuasive arguments for "100% nitrogen in consumer tires is pure BS".  My words not his. 

[bobsallyh]

Nitrogen in tires for race cars and airplanes good to go,  in street vehicles reminds me of Chevron's Techron ads.

[noteven]

6 hours ago, bobsallyh said:

Nitrogen in tires for race cars and airplanes good to go,  in street vehicles reminds me of Chevron's Techron ads.

Don't tell me people are putting Techron in their tires now? 

[Pat & Pete]

38 minutes ago, noteven said:

Don't tell me people are putting Techron in their tires now? 

Sure . It helps promote those tire fires .

IIRC , way back when hooligans would light old tires on fire at Halloween , they had to use a fair amount of gasoline or some such to get them to burn . Once burning , the dang things would put out an awful lot of smoke . 

[bobsallyh]

No noteven, just another advertising claim that so many people subscribe to. Instead of using a comma, I should have started another sentence, I guess.

[297550]

Actually ... a “tire fire” isn’ A flaming event, it is a smoldering event that results in a tire explosion.  Apparently not many RVers are from the Heavy Equipment or Aviation world.

[Ray,IN]

On 7/7/2017 at 4:40 PM, Flying Finn said:

MRR,

Assuming all your weight and load ratings check out, try switching to nitrogen in your tires.  They will run cooler and remain at pressure longer than air.

The TPMS advice is one to take.  The one thing I did not see mentioned is tire age.  If your tires have aged out, replace them. Doesn't matter how good they look.  Shelf life varies by manufacturer.  Typical is 5-7 years.

Brad

Some of that is untrue. Boyles law states ALL gass' expand at basically same rate, I say basically because the difference may only be measured in a laboratory under controlled conditions.  Tires will not run cooler with N7 vs dry air. What makes the difference is moisture content of air.

Airplanes and race cars use N7 because it is void of moisture and will not contribute to a fire, like air/ O8(an accelerant)

 

[Pat & Pete]

10 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

Some of that is untrue. Boyles law states ALL gass' expand at basically same rate, I say basically because the difference may only be measured in a laboratory under controlled conditions.  Tires will not run cooler with N7 vs dry air. What makes the difference is moisture content of air.

Airplanes and race cars use N7 because it is void of moisture and will not contribute to a fire, like air/ O8(an accelerant)

 

That's a good enough reason to run nitrogen , if you can , practically .

[Kirk W]

On 10/8/2017 at 6:30 PM, gjhunter01 said:

Nitrogen tires are just a fad

I don't know if it is a fad or not, but the subject had come up here many times over the years and always has a few who support it and many others who do not. A trusted tire dealer told me that he has nitrogen available for those who ask but he compares the extra charge for it to the automobile dealers who offer tire and paint protective coatings for an extra price as "dealer add-on's." He says it is a very cheap way to add significantly to the profit margin with little cost or effort. I then asked what he puts in his tires, and the answer was "air just like you use."

I have been traveling by RV since 1972 and have never experienced a tire fire and have never seen a tire catch fire while traveling. In all of the RV safety seminars I have attended and safety articles that I have read, I have not heard/seen nitrogen in tires mentioned. It certainly won't harm anything if you do choose to use it, so each one must make the choice for their vehicles. 

[gjhunter01]

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

I don't know if it is a fad or not, but the subject had come up here many times over the years and always has a few who support it and many others who do not. A trusted tire dealer told me that he has nitrogen available for those who ask but he compares the extra charge for it to the automobile dealers who offer tire and paint protective coatings for an extra price as "dealer add-on's." He says it is a very cheap way to add significantly to the profit margin with little cost or effort. I then asked what he puts in his tires, and the answer was "air just like you use."

I have been traveling by RV since 1972 and have never experienced a tire fire and have never seen a tire catch fire while traveling. In all of the RV safety seminars I have attended and safety articles that I have read, I have not heard/seen nitrogen in tires mentioned. It certainly won't harm anything if you do choose to use it, so each one must make the choice for their vehicles.

I think you covered it well Kirk and it is profitable for a dealer to promote this. I tend to look at things from a auto manufacture point of view and don't forsee Nitrogen storage tanks enmass at auto plants. The future is in airless tires, even tractors are going away from tires into rubber tracks.

Greg

[Ray,IN]

On 7/6/2017 at 6:27 PM, MRR said:

Folks, I have a new Redwood 5th wheel. Dry weight is 13,400 pounds. We will start living in it by the end of the year. I bought a new Ram 3500 SRW to pull it. The truck is rated to pull 17,080 pounds. And max payload is 3,950 pounds. Hitch weight is 2,450 pounds. Pulling the 5th wheel with the truck is fine and stable feeling. But suddenly, after several trips, I started worrying about having only two wheels back there. What if a tire blows. I've got the rear tires filled cold to 80 pounds. Driving home in the heat the other day, the pressure on the rear tires read 90 pounds. It freaked me out. If it wasn't for me worried about tire failure, I don't think I would be thinking about switching out this new truck for a DRW. Help me out guys. Should I be trading now while the truck is almost new??????

Sorry for the double post_.

[Ray,IN]

On 7/6/2017 at 6:27 PM, MRR said:

Folks, I have a new Redwood 5th wheel. Dry weight is 13,400 pounds. We will start living in it by the end of the year. I bought a new Ram 3500 SRW to pull it. The truck is rated to pull 17,080 pounds. And max payload is 3,950 pounds. Hitch weight is 2,450 pounds. Pulling the 5th wheel with the truck is fine and stable feeling. But suddenly, after several trips, I started worrying about having only two wheels back there. What if a tire blows. I've got the rear tires filled cold to 80 pounds. Driving home in the heat the other day, the pressure on the rear tires read 90 pounds. It freaked me out. If it wasn't for me worried about tire failure, I don't think I would be thinking about switching out this new truck for a DRW. Help me out guys. Should I be trading now while the truck is almost new??????

Getting back to your concerns;

Never use the published dry weight when contemplating which truck to use for towing, use only the GVWR of the trailer. You may never actually travel with the trailer loaded to maximum, but you may if you choose, IF you bought the correct truck. This towing calculator will properly and accurately match a trailer and truck. It eliminates all guesswork and opinions.

To calculate the pin weight at GVWR, obtain the percentage of published pin weight vs published "dry weight". Use this percent to calculate pin weight at GVWR weight. It's not exact, but close enough to use in that online calculator, which BTW, recommends using a 20% safety factor for loading the tow vehicle.