Towing a 5'er with an F150??

[Big5er]

On 8/9/2017 at 0:19 PM, gjhunter01 said:

As far as safety, lets compare a P/U truck to a HDT on safety features, the P/U wins hands down for being safer in an accident I don't think so 
with it's air bags,My HDT has those
safety bumper, You mean that little tiny bumper with the 20mph shocks? 
 collapseable steering wheel, cab design, Is your entire engine designed to drop under the cab rather than push back into the passenger compartment? Mine is. 
ABS brakes, Got those too, except mine are much larger than yours and designed to stop a lot more weight than yours
the list goes on. And so does the list of larger and better safety features than your truck. 

Obviously your owner/operator kinfolk haven't bothered to enlighten you. Yeah, the tires on my HDT cost more...and last longer. My oil change costs more than yours also. And my engine has an average life of a million miles before it needs rebuilding. Your entire pickup will not last a million miles.

In a HDT frontal crash, the main benefit is you can grab a drink from the refrig as it crashes through the front window. My HDT cost less than a King Ranch F-350, will tow more weight than that F-350 and has a greater chance of surviving a frontal crash than an F-350. And as you mentioned it has a refrigerator (designed by some great swedish engineers to stay put in a crash). It also has air suspension and air seats for a lot more comfort than any pickup in town. It has a microwave, a dining table, a clothes closet and two beds. The bed of my truck is capable of carrying loads that weigh more than your entire truck too.
Other than a bench seat what is in the back of your truck?

I'm sorry, I forgot...tell me again what your truck can do Greg?  

 

[avvidclif]

Amen.....

[gjhunter01]

My Chevy 3500 can do everything your HDT does for about a 1/3 of the cost with a luxury ride. I like how you compare the price of a F350 as more than a HDT. If you can point the way where I can buy a new HDT for less cost than a new F350, than I will run out and buy one tomorrow for my son's O/O business, HDT's generally cost $140k+ and I priced a new Chevy 3500 at $57k. As far as miles, with full timing I average 10k miles a year and since my Chevy has 307k on the odometer, that would translate to 30 years in the full timing business. A new HDT will go a million miles but are you really going to run that far with a RV, at 10k miles a year, that is 100 years of full timing which is more than I plan to do. As far as maint cost, some things are time dependent, such as oil change once a year, tires and batteries every 7 years and a HDT cost is twice that of a P/U cost for these items. We also replaced both radiators recently at a DIYS part cost of $200 for Chevy and $1200 for Freightliner. There is not one single item/service anywhere that is cheaper on a HDT than a P/U. For operating cost, a P/U gets 11/21 mpg vs a HDT at 6/9 for loaded vs empty mpg. You claim you can stop with more weight, I hope so since a HDT weighs in at 10k lbs more than a P/U right off the bat and than throw a toad in the mix because the HDT is just not practical as a run a round vehicle.

I don't hate HDT's in fact I just spent all day in my son's Freightliner loading and delivering 3 flatbed loads throughout the Detroit area, and I am tired. If a RV owner wants to own a HDT, I think that is just fine and I have no problem with that, it's like me owning  a motorcycle. My question is why do the HDT owners feel they have to justify there HDT choice, it's just not practical no matter how you look at it, again much like my motorcycle. No RV manufactures even come close to suggest that a HDT be used as a tow vehicle, that ought to tell you something.

Automotive companies spend a lot of $$ on safety features, don't kid yourself that a HDT is even close in the safety category, it's like comparing safety features of a car to a farm tractor.

Greg, Lets keep this friendly, it's just a debate

[Av8r3400]

This is a apples and onions comparison. Just about every note above can be argued, but it isn't worth the effort as Phil has proven. 

My first hand experience shows me where the accuracy is.

Agree to disagree -- To each their own. 

[Big5er]

16 hours ago, gjhunter01 said:

 I like how you compare the price of a F350 as more than a HDT. If you can point the way where I can buy a new HDT for less cost than a new F350, than I will run out and buy one tomorrow for my son's O/O business, HDT's generally cost $140k+ and I priced a new Chevy 3500 at $57k.
No one (other than you) said anything about "new" Greg. But I paid $39k for my HDT. I could wear out 2 of those Chevy's before my HDT dies and still be ahead by about $75k. Gee, I wonder how much maintenance I can do for $75k? 

As far as miles, with full timing I average 10k miles a year and since my Chevy has 307k on the odometer, that would translate to 30 years in the full timing business.
And your LDT is almost the end of its' life. 300k miles on a little bitty transmission? Yeah, right its about done too. I have 530k miles on my odometer and that isn't even half the life of mine. I did have a little hick-up on my automatic transmission a few years ago. Yeah, I spent a grand...what will you spend when yours dies? Another $57k, cuz at that point your truck isn't worth fixing. My trailer also has a GVWR of 22500 lbs. What is the GVWR of your trailer Greg? Can your truck pull mine? Up Teton Pass (10% grades)? Better yet can your truck control my trailer on the way down that pass without smoking the brakes or that tired old transmission? Mine can do it with ease. 

 it's just not practical no matter how you look at it,
It is very practical Greg. Safety, no matter how YOU look at it, is very important to me and practical. My truck will not be shoved through an intersection or down a mountain pass by my trailer. Can you say that about your truck, pulling my trailer?

No RV manufactures even come close to suggest that a HDT be used as a tow vehicle, that ought to tell you something. And you are wrong again (that does "tell me something"). People should never make bold absolute statements when they aren't 100% positive, Greg. Maybe your average cookie cutter trailer manufacturer doesn't but when I started looking at a custom trailer, that was one of the first thing they asked. "Weight may be an issue. What are you planning to tow this with?". Not everyone tows a little bitty trailer Greg. I don't. So why are you so critical of those of us with large, heavy trailers?  And trucks capable of towing them?

Automotive companies spend a lot of $$ on safety features, don't kid yourself that a HDT is even close in the safety category, it's like comparing safety features of a car to a farm tractor.
That's just plain silly, Greg. Pick one, your truck or my smart car. Slam them head on into each other. Which one would you rather be operating? Now, explain to me how your pickup will fair in a better than my HDT when the two of them go head to head. You just keep trying to convince your self. I don't think you have many supporters of that theory in the real world.

44 minutes ago, Av8r3400 said:

This is a apples and onions comparison. Just about every note above can be argued, but it isn't worth the effort as Phil has proven. 

My first hand experience shows me where the accuracy is.

Agree to disagree -- To each their own. 

 

Yup, I'm done too.
Who is it that has the HDT where they painted the rear: "If I have to explain it, you probably wouldn't understand it"? 
 

Safe Travels Greg. 

[gjhunter01]

Ok, so we are comparing a used HDT w/1/2 mil miles including wear and rattles to a new F350 Ranch King? Next, I have done many grades without touching the brake pedal, just starting out slow, using exhaust brake, and down shifting. Braking is as much about skill as it is the brakes themselves. Now the issue of wearing out a Chevy 350 at 307k miles?? My engine oil sample analysis show little wear and should make 500k miles. My son' Chevy duramax motor made 550k miles before being replaced for $5000, (again 1/3 the cost of a HDT motor replacement). I not sure about slamming a HDT into a P/U, how often does that happen in the real world? I have heard of many cases where people have walked away from a serious car crash on account of the safety features. For a maint budget of $75k doesn't go very far in a HDT, my son spent $30k in maint on one of his semi's alone. Also, point me to a RV manufacture that requires a HDT for a tow vehicle?

Another family member bought a used 2012 Volvo for $75k 3 years ago and has put 200k miles on it. Meanwhile the Volvo has depreciated about $40k and he has spent $15k for maintenance. I know his HDT is commercial, but any HDT owner should expect the same cost after 200k miles

 

 

Greg

[Big5er]

10 hours ago, gjhunter01 said:

Another family member bought a used 2012 Volvo for $75k 3 years ago and has put 200k miles on it. Meanwhile the Volvo has depreciated about $40k and he has spent $15k for maintenance. I know his HDT is commercial, but any HDT owner should expect the same cost after 200k miles

Sounds like your family member got screwed, Greg. Maybe he should have shopped for a better deal? But thank goodness you are here to tell us all about how much money we are wasting. Of course like you mentioned in your previous post, full-timing is about 10,000 miles a year. So 200,000 miles is about twenty years of fulltiming. I can live with $15k in maintenance over 20 years. That isn't even a grand a year.

But maybe you should to pick a side and stay there. You can't even keep your own story straight, Greg. You keep jumping back and forth....and that makes your theory look weak. When it is YOUR truck, you full time and only drive a few thousand miles a year. But then you want to compare our HDT's to ones being used commercially. You also said that "No RV manufactures even come close to suggest that a HDT be used as a tow vehicle" and now you say "point me to a RV manufacture that requires a HDT for a tow vehicle".  When "suggest" got shot down, you abandoned that sinking ship and change your criteria to "require"? Which is it, Greg? Like Av8r3400 said, you are comparing apples to onions....and carrots, and lettuce, etc, etc so it seems.  

I hate to mention this but I can direct you to a whole forum full of HDT owners that certainly didn't spend $75k on their HDT nor have they spent $15k in maintenance in a 3 years period. I certainly haven't. What's your theory gonna change to now? Have you ever considered that the issue may just be your attitude toward RV HDT's?  

BTW: You never answered my question, except with some fairly non specific answer about your driving skills and your 300k mile tranny. Will your truck tow my trailer, with it's 22,500 lb GVWR, safely up and down a 10% grade?Let's just forget about how much of MY money you think I am wasting, Greg. After all, you aren't my financial adviser, my mother or my beneficiary. If I want to spend my money that is my choice, isn't it? So, how about a simple yes or no answer, if you are capable. Can your LDT even pull my trailer and still be within its' RATED towing capacity? Yes or No? If the answer is "no" then every bit of your criticism is sort of moot, isn't it? 

Wanna list some numbers on that pickup with 300k miles on it? Year, model, engine? I am anxious, waiting to hear about this Chevy 3500 with 300k miles that can even pull my trailer, while you complain about how much of MY money I spend on my truck. Most 3500's even capable of towing 20+ lbs would be maxed out on weight. Not exactly what I call "safe", operating at the extreme maximum towing capacity for 10k miles a year. Is that what you call "safe"? An old truck, hoping to get another 100k miles on it, pulling at it's maximum capacity? 

[chirakawa]

When I was seven or eight years old, I could stand back and pee over a 4' chain link fence.  That was sixty years ago.  Now, I can lean up against a fence and can't even reach the base with a good stream.   Same result, an empty bladder.

Either you get my point or you don't.

[Big5er]

50 minutes ago, chirakawa said:

When I was seven or eight years old, I could stand back and pee over a 4' chain link fence.  That was sixty years ago.  Now, I can lean up against a fence and can't even reach the base with a good stream.   Same result, an empty bladder.

Either you get my point or you don't.

LOL 

[Av8r3400]

Dust in the wind, Phil.  

[gjhunter01]

I am only trying to keep the HDT crowd honest and call them out when they make false claims that their HDTs are superior in safety and cost over pickups. The real test will be when you post your experiences 10 years after you rv with a HDT, if you are honest. My comments are based on my last 5 years of experience full timing with a pickup and family issues with high mileage commercial semi’s. If you already made your choice or don’t like free advice, then rv on down the road.

The above poster seems concern about my Chevy pulling a 20k trailer, well when Hot Shot hauling 5 years ago, I hauled 20k steel coils all over the NE for 3 years NY to Ill. My Chevy was commercially plated for 36k lbs and DOT legal for over 200k miles. So yes the Chevy can haul your 20k trailer with a little skill. I once hauled a Freightliner day cab from Chicago to Philly on a trailer with my Chevy. I had fun on the CB radio that trip offering semi rescue tows.

 

Greg

[Star Dreamer]

19 hours ago, gjhunter01 said:

I am only trying to keep the HDT crowd honest and call them out when they make false claims that their HDTs are superior in safety and cost over pickups. The real test will be when you post your experiences 10 years after you rv with a HDT, if you are honest. My comments are based on my last 5 years of experience full timing with a pickup and family issues with high mileage commercial semi’s. If you already made your choice or don’t like free advice, then rv on down the road.

The above poster seems concern about my Chevy pulling a 20k trailer, well when Hot Shot hauling 5 years ago, I hauled 20k steel coils all over the NE for 3 years NY to Ill. My Chevy was commercially plated for 36k lbs and DOT legal for over 200k miles. So yes the Chevy can haul your 20k trailer with a little skill. I once hauled a Freightliner day cab from Chicago to Philly on a trailer with my Chevy. I had fun on the CB radio that trip offering semi rescue tows.

 

Greg

We had a 2003 Chevy 3500 and its gross combined vehicle rating was 22000#. This was the max weight of trailer and truck and all payload. We were overweight and knew that we would need at least a new (at that time) dually which would have been closer to $65k with the options we would want. Our dually had been going through injectors like crazy (first eight under warranty and then another 10 that we replaced and was due for another set when we sold it. They were not cheap to replace.  We easily put $15k into the dually with maintenance, repairs and trying to make things better in the there years we had it. That was 5 years ago. We paid less than have the amount for  anew truck for our HDT with 454k miles on it. In the 5 years we have averaged about 12k miles a year (and we are not retired yet) and we have probably spent about $2k in maintenance and repairs in that time. We did make our own hauler bed which is not included in that cost but  was not necessary, just something we wanted for when we do retire and head out on longer trips. We keep good records of what we have spent and so far the use HDT is far better in total cost than the LDT was and It would take quite a bit to use up the difference in the base price plus the cost to finance that extra amount.

Our Dually would barely stop the 15k# trailer we had even with all the trailer brakes working. We always had to make sure we had extra space available and I would not take it in the mountains. We also knew we would want a bigger trailer in the future. The HDT has no trouble stopping the same trailer even when we had all 6 brakes on the trailer fail on a trip to Pennsylvania.

You say your Chevy was plated for 36K, we could plate ours for whatever we wanted also but does not mean it can handle it. What is your Chevy rated at for Gross Combined vehicle weight? That is the true maximum number and I am sure Chevy would advertise it if it can do 36k# combined.

From the 2017 Chevy website:

3500HD tows up to:

23,300 lbs.^†with available Duramax 6.6L Turbo-Diesel V8

^†Requires Silverado 3500HD Regular Cab 2WD SRW with fifth-wheel hitch. Before you buy a vehicle or use it for trailering, carefully review the Trailering section of the Owner's Manual. The weight of passengers, cargo and options or accessories may reduce the amount you can tow.

So it sounds like they have upped the towing capacity from ours but we would never want a regular cab and the DRW will reduce the capacity.

There are other reasons to consider LDT, MDT or HDT trucks, A person has to use all of them to determine what will work the best for them. RVing is usually a compromise someplace. Not all solutions work for everyone.

[Five Wood]

This thread has clearly gone on longer than it should have.

 

Jim

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Today I made a run from Bismarck ND to Sioux Falls SD and back.  420 miles each way.  If I saw 1 F150 with a 5th wheel I saw 10 today.  Some were small 25-28 ft rigs that had "Lite" plastered in the name, several were the old Coachman 5th wheels with the exposed front landing gear, and then there were 2 that were hauling Grand Design Reflections.... 1 was a 337 RLS... passed him in the outside lane when the wind blew him over there... I read the numbers next to the door going by, and the other was a 311BH.... he passed me after I had passed him, I guess to show me that his Ford had enough guts to keep up with me at 75mph on I-29 south....  He was wiggling all over the road as well..... My wife started to ask me if that was safe, then she told herself to shut up....

[Second Chance]

5 minutes ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

Today I made a run from Bismarck ND to Sioux Falls SD and back.  420 miles each way.  If I saw 1 F150 with a 5th wheel I saw 10 today.  Some were small 25-28 ft rigs that had "Lite" plastered in the name, several were the old Coachman 5th wheels with the exposed front landing gear, and then there were 2 that were hauling Grand Design Reflections.... 1 was a 337 RLS... passed him in the outside lane when the wind blew him over there... I read the numbers next to the door going by, and the other was a 311BH.... he passed me after I had passed him, I guess to show me that his Ford had enough guts to keep up with me at 75mph on I-29 south....  He was wiggling all over the road as well..... My wife started to ask me if that was safe, then she told herself to shut up....

That's incredibly scary, Jim. We moved from a 3/4-ton to a 1-ton DRW with a 337RLS  because we didn't feel we had enough truck - not to mention that our pin weight is 3,100 lbs. Imagine that on any 1/2-ton truck!

Rob

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Headlights were aimed up and they were moving down the highway... I'm sure it was a "It felt just Fine....Didn't even know the camper Was back there"  kinda driver.  

It's amazing at the number of people that see the Big Red Volvo and say "Bet you don't even know the RV is behind you".  I have tried really really hard to not answer back " Only an idiot would not feel XXXX weight behind their truck.

On our trip to Florida to pick up the DRV, I towed a 6x12 utility trailer with a 4-wheeler to Georgia from North Dakota.  I couldn't see it in my mirrors, but I could still feel every bump or lurch it made.  

[Big5er]

9 hours ago, Star Dreamer said:

You say your Chevy was plated for 36K, we could plate ours for whatever we wanted also but does not mean it can handle it. What is your Chevy rated at for Gross Combined vehicle weight? That is the true maximum number and I am sure Chevy would advertise it if it can do 36k# combined.

You are wasting your time asking Greg this question. He is all about smoke and mirrors. I can "plate" my smart car for 36,000lbs but that doesn't mean it can tow or stop that much weight. I have specifically asked Greg, several times, to post numbers for his truck and he won't. Instead he replies with anecdotes, things like registered weight and more BS about his family and their commercial operation. If he could supply real numbers (year, make, model, gvwr, etc) that would have proven his claims he would done so already. The fact that he hasn't proves the point several people here have presented. Of course his stalling tactics have given him ample opportunity to make up some numbers, except He will have a hard time finding numbers that will work with fulltiming mileage, years and that 300k miles he already has.

He claims he is only trying to keep the HDT crowd honest but he cannot (or will not) honestly answer a simple, specific, question. I deal with people like him all day long. Always deflecting the original question away with something unrelated or another question, but never actually answering the question they were asked. It would be kind of sad really, if it weren't so comical. Gotta hate it when facts totally ruin a good story.

[ARGO]

I am NOT going to get into this dogfight. But I'd like to point out, that if you KNOWINGLY tow more than your truck is legally door-stickered for, that is "gross negligence" . Your insurance co and even a mediocre lawyer will skin you alive if you have a loss

[chirakawa]

8 hours ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

Today I made a run from Bismarck ND to Sioux Falls SD and back.  420 miles each way.  If I saw 1 F150 with a 5th wheel I saw 10 today.  Some were small 25-28 ft rigs that had "Lite" plastered in the name, several were the old Coachman 5th wheels with the exposed front landing gear, and then there were 2 that were hauling Grand Design Reflections.... 1 was a 337 RLS... passed him in the outside lane when the wind blew him over there... I read the numbers next to the door going by, and the other was a 311BH.... he passed me after I had passed him, I guess to show me that his Ford had enough guts to keep up with me at 75mph on I-29 south....  He was wiggling all over the road as well..... My wife started to ask me if that was safe, then she told herself to shut up....

You drove 840 miles in one day and are making comments about others driving unsafely? 

[Yarome]

15 minutes ago, chirakawa said:

You drove 840 miles in one day and are making comments about others driving unsafely? 

Are you insinuating that he's too much of geezer to make a long flat drive like that without multiple naps? 

[chirakawa]

17 minutes ago, Yarome said:

Are you insinuating that he's too much of geezer to make a long flat drive like that without multiple naps? 

No, I have no idea how old he/she is.  I generally agree with his/her comments, was just pointing out that we all have different ideas about what is safe or not.