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5th Wheel towing and States CDL Req

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We're thinking of a new 5th Wheel to replace our Carriage Cameo. It was heavy but I tow it with a Chevy 2500HD Duramax. We were looking to step up to a Mobile Suiites, but the weights are looking like I'm in CDL territory (at least in CT, our present locale). Anyone know of  state where we could tow such a rig, with a Duelly with no CDL?

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It is not the states you can tow in, it is the state where you get your license.  If the state your license in allows your rig without a CDL, then the other 49 states accept it because of the Full Faith Clause of the Constitution.

HHRV Resource Guide Driver License Requirements

Edited by Mark and Dale Bruss

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Each state has different licensing requirements for trailer towing, but as Mark states above as long as you are legal in your home (domicile) state you are legal in all states.  The link he provided has a run down of driver license requirements by state.  

Being from California, I can tell you they require a non commercial class A license to tow any 5th wheel RV trailer over 15000 lbs GVWR.  My brother in law lives in Colorado and he is able to tow any 5th wheel RV with his standard driver license (including recreational doubles).  These are the only states I am personally familiar with.

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Very few states require a "C"DL for a recreational trailer. Several do require a non-commercial class A or B. I thought CT was one of those. You might want to verify the type of license you need before deciding to change your domicile unless there are other reasons to change. 

Edited by Big5er

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Remember the "C" in CDL means commercial it is a Commercial drivers license  that is required by the Federal Government if you are driving Commercial or for hire... Pulling a RV for pleasure is NOT commercial and a CDL is NOT required. Some states have a CDL but it is not really a CDL just a way for the State to make some money from Rv'ers.

In fact if you work for a RV transporter company you ARE required to have the Federal CDL because you are pulling Commercial

If you hold  a so called CDL from one of the States that require it for a RV and decide to  jump in a 18 wheeler and  pull commercial...you will arrested.  The  State CDL is worthless. I have held a real CDL for years.

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On 6/8/2017 at 4:07 PM, richfaa said:

Remember the "C" in CDL means commercial it is a Commercial drivers license  that is required by the Federal Government if you are driving Commercial or for hire... Pulling a RV for pleasure is NOT commercial and a CDL is NOT required. Some states have a CDL but it is not really a CDL just a way for the State to make some money from Rv'ers.

In fact if you work for a RV transporter company you ARE required to have the Federal CDL because you are pulling Commercial

If you hold  a so called CDL from one of the States that require it for a RV and decide to  jump in a 18 wheeler and  pull commercial...you will arrested.  The  State CDL is worthless. I have held a real CDL for years.

FALSE!

See my reply in the other thread. Posting this rubbish twice doesn't make it true. Who issued your "real" CDL?

Edited by Big5er

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2 hours ago, Big5er said:

FALSE!

See my reply in the other thread. Posting this rubbish twice doesn't make it true. Who issued your "real" CDL?

What did I say that is not true    .My CDL was issued by the state of Ohio.

Some people may wonder if they have to get a Commercial Driver’s License. Rules for U.S. Commercial Drivers Licenses are

administered by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA). Although this federal administration sets minimum rules

that apply to each state, but states and provinces have the right to set more strict rules. RV's used strictly for recreational and other

noncommercial functions do not meet the FMCSA definition of a CMV. This does not mean that there are not more strict rules, and

even special drivers licenses for operators of RVs. Be sure to thoroughly understand the requirements of each state you plan on

visiting. In some circumstances you will need to understand the different classifications for motor vehicles, which may impact what

type of special license you may need. These classifications are based on the weight and length of your vehicle. Larger and longer

vehicles in some cases require that operators have an appropriate class license based on the class of the vehicle.

 

CDL’s pertain more to why you are driving, rather than what you are driving. Very few states require you to have a CDL to operate a motorhome. CDL’s are intended for vehicles with commercial use, so unless you drive a motorhome for a living, you probably don’t need a CDL. There are a few exceptions though. For motorhomes over 26,000 lb., Washington, DC, and Hawaii require you to have a CDL. In Washington, DC, the road test is not required to get your CDL, but you do have to pass the CDL knowledge test. Wisconsin and Indiana require a CDL for motorhomes longer than 45’. Most states rule that individuals operating a motorhome exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes, are exempt from CDL requirements.

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1 hour ago, richfaa said:

What did I say that is not true   Lets start with your statement about being arrested for driving commercially while you have a CDL. And then that statement about states having a CDL that is not a CDL. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

My CDL was issued by the state of Ohio. What makes your CDL any more "real" than any other states CDL?

RV's used strictly for recreational and other non‐commercial functions do not meet the FMCSA definition of a CMV. Again, not true. This is what happens when you get your knowledge from a CDL traing company rather than the FMCSR's. An HDT RV does meet the definition of a Commercial Motor Vehicle. It is simply allowed an EXEMPTION from the regualtions. There is a big difference in an exemption and what you claim.

CDL’s pertain more to why you are driving, rather than what you are driving. Actually it pertains to BOTH. You can drive commercially and be required to have a CDL even if you are not driving a "commercial" motor vehicle. I'll see if you can find that one on "Truckingtruth.com"

Very few states require you to have a CDL to operate a motorhome. Earlier you said that no one required it.

In Washington, DC, the road test is not required to get your CDL, but you do have to pass the CDL knowledge test. That is not what DC's DMV web page says. Under "Steps to Apply..." Read item #7. Where did you get your information from?

CDL’s are intended for vehicles with commercial use, so unless you drive a motorhome for a living, you probably don’t need a CDL.

 Most states rule that individuals operating a motorhome exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes, are exempt from CDL requirements.

Ahh, "probably" and "most". Not what you said earlier. You plainly said "Pulling a RV for pleasure is NOT commercial and a CDL is NOT required".

 

Edited by Big5er

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10 hours ago, Big5er said:

 

If you hold  a so called CDL from one of the States that require it for a RV and decide to  jump in a 18 wheeler and  pull commercial...you will arrested.  The  State CDL is worthless. I have held a real CDL for years.

.That would be a non commercial CDL.Can not pull commercial on a non Commercial CDL.I said the Commercial CDL is issued by any State but regulated by FMCSA. A Non commercial CDL is NOT a Commercial CDL

Ohio Requires a CDL to drive a School bus, A state can Increase the requirement but can not decrease them(Actually it pertains to BOTH. You can drive commercially and be required to have a CDL even if you are not driving a "commercial" motor vehicle. I'll see if you can find that one on "Truckingtruth.com"

Of Course the HDT meets the  definition of a Commercial vehicle but when pulling NOT FOR HIRE it is not a commercial vehicle .My F-350 is a commercial vehicle IF pulling for hire like delivering RV's for a transport company.

 states rule that individuals operating a motorhome exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes, are exempt from CDL requirements... That is pulling for pleasure..

Read the knowledge for DC CDL    is it the same as the knowledge test  for a Commercial CDL.

 

A Commercial CDL and a NON commercial CDL are two different things. You can not use  that NON commercial CDL to pull  OTR for trucking company. Ohio does nor require a special license to operate a RV but if I went over to Indiana and worked for a transporter company I would be pulling commercial and would need a Commercial CDL. A NON commercial CDL would not do it.

Very few states require you to have a CDL to operate a motorhome. Earlier you said that no one required .

It is not required by the FMCSA.. A State can require it as it is in excess of the FMCSA rule not les than.

 

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1 hour ago, GlennWest said:

Non commercial CDL is a oximoron. Either CDL or not. 

Yup. And if you HAVE a CDL you can drive any motorhome or RV conversion that I know of, in any state that I know of. CDL trumps any state licensing regulation for motorhomes/recreation tow vehicles. 

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5 hours ago, jjwicklund said:

Why don't we just call it an additional endorsement on your DL and leave it at that.

Because it is not an endorsement? 

6 hours ago, richfaa said:

If you hold  a so called CDL from one of the States that require it for a RV and decide to  jump in a 18 wheeler and  pull commercial...you will arrested.  The  State CDL is worthless. I have held a real CDL for years. And your "CDL" is no more "real" than anyone elses. You will NOT be arrested for driving a COMMERCIAL motor vehicle with a COMMERCIAL drivers license. Please stop quoting garbage form TruckerTruth.com and post me one statute (just one) from ANY State that says that issue a "real" CDL and a "fake" CDL. How can you have a COMMERCIAL DRIVERS LICENSE that is not COMMERCIAL? All 50 States issue ONE CDL, that meets the requirements set forth in 49CFR. None of them issue a CDL that does not. I dare you to show me one. 

.That would be a non commercial CDL.Can not pull commercial on a non Commercial CDL.I said the Commercial CDL is issued by any State but regulated by FMCSA. A Non commercial CDL is NOT a Commercial CDL And again, how can you have a non commercial, commercial license?  

Ohio Requires a CDL to drive a School bus, A state can Increase the requirement but can not decrease them(Actually it pertains to BOTH. You can drive commercially and be required to have a CDL even if you are not driving a "commercial" motor vehicle. I'll see if you can find that one on "Truckingtruth.com"

Of Course the HDT meets the  definition of a Commercial vehicle but when pulling NOT FOR HIRE it is not a commercial vehicle .My F-350 is a commercial vehicle IF pulling for hire like delivering RV's for a transport company. WRONG!!! Go read the definition of a CMV in the LAW...not the BS you found on your beloved web site. 49 CFR is easy to find.
And "not for hire" does NOT mean you are not commercial, I don't care what TruckerTruth.com said. Any "private carrier" is "Not For Hire". Try looking that up too. 

Pepsico-14,247 tractors 9,163 straight trucks 38,928 pickups and cargo vans 15,087 trailers NOT FOR HIRE

Coca Cola-7,989 tractors 1,893 straight trucks 3,800 pickups and cargo vans 10,101 trailers NOT FOR HIRE

and #3 in the country, from right here is my hometown:
Sysco-
7,941 tractors 1,407 straight trucks 9,959 trailers is NOT FOR HIRE!
and they are ALL commercial motor carriers. They are quired to have a USDOT number, insurance on file with and their drivers are REQUIRED to have a CDL, log books, medical certificates and everything else that goes along with driving a CMV. Just like you and your "real" CDL. 


 

 14,247 tractors 9,163 straight trucks 38,928 pickups and cargo vans 15,087 trailers

 states rule that individuals operating a motorhome exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes, are exempt from CDL requirements... That is pulling for pleasure.. WRONG AGAIN! The Federal statutes say that a CMV (which includes an HDT RV and maybe your F-350 pulling the right travel trailer) driven for strictly personal usage is exempt from CDL

Read the knowledge for DC CDL    is it the same as the knowledge test  for a Commercial CDL. Your previous post said the ROAD test wasn't required in Washington DC now you want to say the knowledge test. You can't seem to keep your story straight. 

 

A Commercial CDL and a NON commercial CDL are two different things. No it isn't! There is NO non commercial "C"DL. Please. please, please show me one...anywhere, from any State. What does the "C" is CDL stand for? Please stop quoting from that silly web site. It is WRONG. Try looking up the things you are claiming to know about in the LAW. You can not find it because what you are saying does not exist. I suppose rather than you educating yourself on the Federal regulations I could look them up and quote them to you but I do it all day...at work...for a living. I do not need to educate you. But PLEASE stop spreading FALSE information. You WILL NOT be arrested in any state in this country for driving a COMMERCIAL vehicle as long as you have a CDL issued by any state, providence of Canada or a Federal license form Mexico. There is NO "REAL" cdl. How arrogant must someone be to believe his CDL is any more "real" than any one elses?  You can not use  that NON commercial CDL to pull  OTR for trucking company. Ohio does nor require a special license to operate a RV but if I went over to Indiana and worked for a transporter company I would be pulling commercial and would need a Commercial CDL. A NON commercial CDL would not do it.

 

Edited by Big5er

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Phil,

Until a few years ago, Georgia issued a class A, non commercial license. Because of the confusion that caused, they renamed it to a class E license. A LOT of EMT and firemen in this state hold that license as well as a few other oddballs like us.

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GH, Texas does the same. It is a Class A drivers license, just like your State. But a CDL is a CDL. I have no doubt that there are many states with a Class A DL, but none have a non commercial CDL. 

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Many years ago in Eastern NC myself and others had several long conversations with our local Highway Patrol DOT enforcement troopers.  

The issue was when does a vehicle become commercial and when does the CDL apply to the driver?

Example- 

1- A hot shot driver shows up at our boat building facility and loads a boat to haul on his equipment to Florida- He is Commercial and has to follow all the rules and regs.

2- I, as a co-owner of the company, load a boat on a company owned trailer that has our company logo on it, that is hitched to my personal truck that didn't have anything on the sides, but did have the company name in the back window, and deliver the boat to an owner.  I am commercial because the I am using my personal truck in a commercial endeavor.  Intent was to deliver the boat and receive a check.

3-  The landscape guy that took care of our lawn.  Drove a 3500 Dually with signage all over it...total wrap with his name and phone number plastered on all sides, tailgate and hood.  Had a 30ft+ gooseneck trailer with several lawn mowers and all the equipment he needed also plasterd with his name, phone numbers, and equipment brands.  He also had a flat bed that he hauled a backhoe on, bobcat etc..... This guy didn't have a CDL, none of his crew had CDL's  (much less green cards) but the state DOT guys NEVER interfered with him.  Reason given was if they started stopping every vehicle that was operating commercially, they would create a traffic jam in court that nobody wanted to deal with.  So the HP "Picked" who they would watch and have their roadside chats with who they wouldn't.

It was ridiculous in our opinion that we had to have CDL's to deliver our goods to our customer.  We were not using an HDT or MDT-style truck, but we were considered commercial by DOT.

 

 

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What about the kid who's using his car with a lighted sign on top to deliver pizzas?  Commercial with logbook, hours of service, etc?  Or not?

What happens if his boss asks him to deliver a couple cans of spices to their other store 100 miles away?  Commercial or not?

At what point does the CDL requirement kick in?

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2 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

What about the kid who's using his car with a lighted sign on top to deliver pizzas?  Commercial with logbook, hours of service, etc?  Or not?

What happens if his boss asks him to deliver a couple cans of spices to their other store 100 miles away?  Commercial or not?

At what point does the CDL requirement kick in?

That's easy Lou. Go look up the definition of a Commercial Motor Vehicle. The kids car (and cargo) doesn't meet the definition. Also, check your state to see when they require a CDL. I'd be willing to bet the kid doesn't need one of them either. Logbook, hours of service,etc do not necessarily apply at the same level as a CDL.

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Years ago in NC I ran a business. Repaired out door equipment, lawn mowers, trenchers, saws, etc. Retailed a lot of equipment. Delivered all larger equipment. Picked up and delivered thousands of lawn tractors for repair and general maintenance. Had Leos for customers, friends, never a CDL came into question. I never gave it a thought. I was definitely commercial

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But what were you driving Glenn? What were you towing? A plain old tow truck is commercial, but isn't a "commercial motor vehicle" and doesn't require a CDL.

Edited by Big5er

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Big5er,  Did you know that your CDL is only an endorsement over your basic DL.

Do you know what endorsment means.  There are dictionaries.  To save you time it means approval.  For DL's it means you are approved to drive the type of vehicle that is noted on your DL pure and simple.

Edited by jjwicklund

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1 hour ago, jjwicklund said:

Big5er,  Did you know that your CDL is only an endorsement over your basic DL.

Do you know what endorsment means.  There are dictionaries.  To save you time it means approval.  For DL's it means you are approved to drive the type of vehicle that is noted on your DL pure and simple.

A CDL is a commercial driver's license.  It can be Class A, Class B, or Class C, depending on type of vehicle.  Endorsements can be added to a commercial driver's license for additional skills like hazardous material, tankers, buses, double towing, etc. 

A commercial driver's license is not an endorsement on a basic driver's license.

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47 minutes ago, chirakawa said:

A CDL is a commercial driver's license.  It can be Class A, Class B, or Class C, depending on type of vehicle.  Endorsements can be added to a commercial driver's license for additional skills like hazardous material, tankers, buses, double towing, etc. 

A commercial driver's license is not an endorsement on a basic driver's license.

Know of anyone who received a CDL without ever having a regular DL and do you not have to relinquish you DL to receive a CDL? Can you get a CDL learner permit without having a valid DL?  A basic DL is in fact an endorsement.  Again check the dictionary for the meaning of endorsement.

 

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38 minutes ago, jjwicklund said:

Know of anyone who received a CDL without ever having a regular DL and do you not have to relinquish you DL to receive a CDL? Can you get a CDL learner permit without having a valid DL?  A basic DL is in fact an endorsement.  Again check the dictionary for the meaning of endorsement.

I understand what you're saying.  However, when it comes to a driver's license, the term endorsement has a very specific meaning.  An endorsement is opposite of a restriction, which is also a specific term when relating to a driver's license.  An endorsement enables the license holder to perform additional tasks, such as hauling hazardous material or operating a motorcycle.  A restriction prevents certain activities, such as operating a motor vehicle without wearing eyeglasses.

The generic definition of endorsement as found in a dictionary does not apply here.

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Quote

Big5er,  Did you know that your CDL is only an endorsement over your basic DL.

Do you know what endorsment means.  There are dictionaries.  To save you time it means approval.  For DL's it means you are approved to drive the type of vehicle that is noted on your DL pure and simple.

Obviously you didn't until chirakawa explained it to you.

Try using the definitions you find in the law, not in Webster's dictionary. The "legal" definitions vary considerably and those are the ones that matter, not the ones you find in the dictionary.

To save YOU some time, try looking in 383.5 for the definition and it doesn't mean "approval". Then you can check 383.93 for the list of the allowed endorsements. Endorsements that are added to a CDL, not to a DL and the "C" in CDL isn't one of them. If you want to pick a fight, you should know the material. 

Edited by Big5er

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