My Solar Installs - Now with Solar Output Data

[Chad Heiser]

50 minutes ago, Itinerant1 said:

Keeping in mind that my set up is with lithium batteries. That screen is connected to the CPU which connects to all the batteries. Also with that monitor it will show individual cell temps and voltage per cell.

Oh yeah.  I totally forgot about the lithium battery bank when I looked at the picture in your last post.  It all makes sense now.  I really would like to go lithium one of these days for several reasons.  The weight savings and the built in monitoring capabilities of a battery management system are right at the top of that list of reasons.  Not to mention the ability to discharge the bank much more deeply than an AGM or lead acid bank while getting full power the whole time.  Hopefully when I'm ready to build my next system the prices will have dropped even more than they already have.

[Itinerant1]

Yes the weight saving is a plus the entire system panels, batteries and all components is a little over 500#.  The wizard to the left of light is what came on the rig and isn't hook up. Below the light and right is everthing.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Itinerant1

[lappir]

Following, thanks for the fantastic information. 

Rod

[Chad Heiser]

9 hours ago, Itinerant1 said:

Yes the weight saving is a plus the entire system panels, batteries and all components is a little over 500#.  The wizard to the left of light is what came on the rig and isn't hook up. Below the light and right is everthing.

That is a nice clean install.  My system has more weight in just the batteries (almost 700 lbs).  My entire system weighs approximately 1400 lbs (this includes the generator).  It is a lot of weight to add to a 5er, but if you have followed my other thread on my weights I am still under my GVWR in my trailer when fully loaded.  If I was still in my Montana with this system, I would definitely have been over weight.  A lithium bank is a great space and weight saver.  You just have to be willing/able to lay out the money for it up front.

All this talk about systems is really making me anxious to get mine out again for some more testing.

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Chad Heiser

[Itinerant1]

Thanks it was all Starlight I just had to reach in the wallet . Yes I read your thread and enjoy the info shown and explained. Tons of great info for folks. Can't wait for updates as you go forward. 

[Chad Heiser]

UPDATE:

We spent the weekend in the trailer and I put the solar through its paces.  We were at a park in a water and power site, but I did not hook up power for this trip.  It was a four day weekend trip with my wife and our granddaughter.  We were with 5 other couples (some of them also with kids) and we had some other people come out for the day on Saturday and Sunday.  In other words, the new trailer had a revolving door on it.  Everyone wanted a tour and to see all the new stuff.  The kids watched movies, we watched playoff basketball and movies, my DW made coffee every morning, the microwave was used, the dishwasher was run, the heater ran at night, the residential refrigerator was on 24/7, multiple electronic devices were charging, etc, etc.  We did nothing to conserve power.  I drew the batteries down into the 70% range every night.  I have 1040 amp hours of battery so we were using 300 + amp hrs per day (not accounting for the free energy the solar provided as the batteries were charging and once they were fully charged).  I tracked usage from 9:00 am (when I got up - it was a nice weekend ) until the batteries were fully charged on day two and day three of the trip (it rained on day four and we packed up and left by 11:00 that morning).

Day 1

Time  - Ext Temp  -  Sun Condition  -  SOC  -  Charge Status  - PV Volts  -  Batt Volts  -  Batt Amps - PV Watts
9:00 am         61             Overcast            82%              Bulk            60.4            13.0              23.3          290
9:30 am         62             Overcast            83%              Bulk            59.9            13.3              36.6          500
10:00 am       63             Slight Sun          84%              Bulk            50.4            13.3              42.0           635
10:30 am       63             Partial Sun         85%              Bulk            50.4            13.4              44.1          563.9
11:00 am       65             Partial Sun         87%              Bulk            56.4             13.6              55.6          751
11:30 am       66             Mostly Sun         89%              Bulk            57.0             13.7              64.8         903
12:00 pm       67             Mostly Sun         93%             Bulk             55.6             14.1             67.4          939
12:30 pm       67             Hazy Sun           94%             Bulk             55.6              15.0             63.2          951
1:00 pm         68             Hazy Sun           96%            Absorb          59.4              15.0             51.1          775
1:30 pm         69             Hazy Sun            97%           Absorb          63.8              14.9             46.2           703
2:00 pm         69             Hazy Sun            100%         Float             68.6               13.7            14.3          198

Day 2

9:00 am         63              Mostly Sun        75%            Bulk             52.6              12.7             34.8         441.9
9:30 am         64              Full Sun             76%            Bulk             52.7              13.2            48.3         640.2
10:00 am       66              Full Sun             77%            Bulk             50.1              13.2             56.5         744.4
10:30 am       67              Full Sun             79%            Bulk             49.3              13.4             57.6         774.5
11:00 am       68              Full Sun              82%           Bulk             55.0               13.5             69.3         931.5
11:30 am       69              Full Sun              85%           Bulk             54.3               13.7             77.2       1060.3
12:00 pm      70              Full Sun              87%           Bulk              53.4               13.9            74.8         1027.2
12:30 pm      71              Full Sun              90%            Bulk             53.3                14.2           71.6         1008
1:00 pm         72             Full Sun              93%            Bulk             54.6                14.5           74.7        1084.6
1:30 pm         72             Full Sun              95%         Absorb            60.4               15.0            61.1           906
2:00 pm         73             Full Sun              97%         Absorb            62.8                14.9           41.8           621.4
2:30 pm         74             Full Sun              100%        Float               68.4                13.6          15.9           276.5

The panels were somewhat dirtier than I thought they would be.  It misted the first night and that kind of cemented some dust to the panels.  I had my satellite dish up the whole time and was getting some minor shading on one panel from it and one vent cover.  The trailer was facing east, which is the best for my panel layout.  The eastern sky was clear of obstructions, but there were trees to the west of me that shaded slightly in the late afternoon as the sun began moving toward the western horizon.  All and all, I am very happy.  I can't imagine us using any more power than we did this weekend without hookups and my batteries were back to 100% every afternoon.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Chad Heiser

[Yarome]

1 hour ago, Chad Heiser said:

so we were using 300 + amp hrs per day (not accounting for the free energy the solar provided as the batteries were charging and once they were fully charged).

I was going to say... yeah... I don't think so buddy.. "300". You're panels were doing a bit of heavy lifting. You can see the aux draws from your mid to late morning.

Looks real sharp! And I agree.. I don't think you'll have any issues if you can sustain a full charge day with that much traffic, this time of year, and a partially cloudy day. Day 2 must have been your "heavy" day hu? That was a lot of juice, there! 

I don't think you could get any happier with that. 

[Chad Heiser]

1 hour ago, Yarome said:

I was going to say... yeah... I don't think so buddy.. "300". You're panels were doing a bit of heavy lifting. You can see the aux draws from your mid to late morning.

Looks real sharp! And I agree.. I don't think you'll have any issues if you can sustain a full charge day with that much traffic, this time of year, and a partially cloudy day. Day 2 must have been your "heavy" day hu? That was a lot of juice, there! 

I don't think you could get any happier with that. 

Day two was a little heavier as far as usage, but there was also more sun that day so that helped.  I know we used a lot more than 300 amp hours throughout the day.  I used that as a simple math equation of going from 100% SOC to the low 70's% SOC as an example.  Really we used that 300 amp hours in the evenings along.  We were typically still right at or near 100% SOC until the sun went down.  Then we drew down into the 70% SOC range through the evening and into the next morning when the whole process would start over.  I was going to reset my amp hour usage counter when we arrived, but I forgot so I don't have the exact number we used (but it was a lot).

I am very pleased with the results.

[Chad Heiser]

On 4/3/2017 at 7:06 PM, RickS said:

Thanks Chad! Just wondering with such a new SC and having fans wondering if it was audible. Liked the comment about about you being so far north.....made me laugh!! You should be able to get solar energy from street lights a night.  

This time around, I did pay attention to the fans in the PT-100.  They never kicked on.  The temperatures were fairly cool all weekend though, so the basement compartment where the PT is mounted never got warm.

[ALLOY]

On 3/23/2017 at 10:23 PM, Chad Heiser said:

I didn't add the second inverter because I was worried about the "idle" draw of the 3012.  I did it for two reasons.  The primary reason was for use while on the road.  I do not want all my electronics (TV's, satellite boxes, stereos, dishwasher, clothes washer, microwave, etc.) powered while my rig is bouncing down the highway.  I see no reason to take the chance of creating an issue with sensitive items in a moving environment.  I am probably being overly cautious on this, but this is my primary reason.  My secondary reason was as a back up to keep the fridge running in boondocking situations where I was trying to conserve as much energy as possible.  For example, multiple days in a row of cloud covered, rainy days where the solar isn't going to be able to keep up with high electrical usage.  In these situations, if I am not using any other 120 volt appliances, why power them with the big inverter when all I really need to do is keep the refrigerator running.  I can turn the big inverter off and use the small inverter to help conserve energy and minimize generator run time.  I kind of look at like my last trailer with the RV type fridge that I would switch to propane and only turn the whole house inverter on when I actually needed it (not exactly the same circumstances, but similar).  Again, I am probably being overly conservative here, but I figured I was building a system from scratch so why not do it the way I wanted to do it.  It also didn't hurt that I was able to source the small inverter for about half price, so why not.

Hi

You put allot of though into this system.

I like the idea of the second inverter.

I'd like to ask 2 questions.

Was throwing the breakers in the panel to isolate the fridge a consideration?

On standby there is a 1.2A @ 12v difference between the standby draw of the 1012 and the 3012. If my (old) brain recalls correctly you have a transfer switch between the 2 inverters that will draw power?  When designing a system for myself I'm wondering how closely I should pay attention to ghost loads. 

Thank You

[Chad Heiser]

10 minutes ago, J-T said:

Hi

You put allot of though into this system.

I like the idea of the second inverter.

I'd like to ask 2 questions.

Was throwing the breakers in the panel to isolate the fridge a consideration?

On standby there is a 1.2A @ 12v difference between the standby draw of the 1012 and the 3012. If my (old) brain recalls correctly you have a transfer switch between the 2 inverters that will draw power?  When designing a system for myself I'm wondering how closely I should pay attention to ghost loads. 

Thank You

Thanks for the compliment.  I did put a lot of thought into the design and components.  It really was a natural progression from the previous system I designed and built in my last trailer.  

To answer your questions:

1.  No I did not consider flipping breakers to isolate the refrigerator.  Residential style circuit breakers are not really designed to be used as regular on/off switches.  The contacts in them can degrade over time with repeated switching.  In addition to this, typical RV circuit breaker panels are not usually located in easy access locations.  The ones in my current trailer are down low in a cabinet near the floor.  I have to get down on my knees to get access to them and to see which breakers are for which circuits.

2.  The transfer switch does not draw any power from the system.  It simply changes contacts to the appropriate circuit based on which one has priority and whether or not it is energized.  It is a passive device only reacting to input from other devices.

You do need to be aware of "ghost" loads when you are running off battery power.  In order to preserve battery power, you should be aware of what the draws are on the battery bank.  I do not use both inverters at once, so I do not have duplicate inverter "overhead".  This is also one of he reasons for adding the second dedicated refrigerator inverter.  When traveling, there is no need to energize all the appliances in the trailer through the whole house inverter.  None of these appliances will be used while running down the road, so why power them just to keep the refrigerator running?  This helps eliminate unneeded draws from the battery bank when they aren't needed.  It also gives me redundancy in my system just in case.

[ALLOY]

Thanks Chad

I've had a box of 120v switching breakers lying around for 10+ years.....I finally have a use for them.

In out case we have a 300w (3w standby) and would adds a 3000w. The 300w so the family (Dad like his 60" TV) can watch a movie before going to bed.

I had the thought of using a battery switch set up as  Inverter 1 - OFF -  Inverter 2  with the output from both inverters feeding  the 110v panel. The feed from both inverters would be live when there is any 110v in the trailer.  The panel in ours is up in a bedroom cabinet so switching circuits on and off would be O.K. What I like about the system you designed is one doesn't have to remember to turn breakers on/off.

Our PD transfer switch hums. Tried to tighten things up to no avail. I assumed the AC (wish it was DC) coil that is energized to  keep the contact closed. What switch are you using?

Once again I really appreciated all the information you posted, Thank You

 

 

[Chad Heiser]

The transfer switch I am using is a small 15 amp transfer switch from Magnum Energy.  It is only on the refrigerator circuit.  The transfer switch is plugged into my small Magnum CSW 1012 inverter (like the diagram in the link).  The breaker for the refrigerator circuit in my sub panel feeds the AC In side of the transfer switch and the AC OUT side of the transfer switch goes directly to the refrigerator plug.  My large inverter, my generator or shore power (Whichever is available) energize the sub panel which sends power into the AC IN side and passes it through to the refrigerator.  When I don't want to use one of these sources, I turn on the small inverter and it then passes power through to the refrigerator plug.

In essence I have three transfer switches in my system.  The first is in line between shore power and my generator.  The second is built into my large Magnum 3012 Hybrid inverter.  The third is the small transfer switch described above.  These three switches all work together to seamlessly pass power to my residential refrigerator based on the power source that is available with no intervention from me.

[Itinerant1]

Chad the system looks like it doing a great job.

I've been boondocking the past 7 days in an area that had no tv stations or Verizon signal talk about internet withdrawal but it did give me a lot of time to learn the system and components better.

 You probably already know that the ME-ARC has a record of usages and such for the past 255 days.

From the manual.

Using a PT Controller: Operation/Monitoring
10.2.2 Monitoring the PT Charge Controller
The ME-ARC remote’s METER button has additional menus that are helpful for the proper opera-
tion and monitoring of your PT controller system.
10.2.2.1 ME-ARC Remote’s PT Controller METER Menus
Press the ME-ARC remote’s METER button, rotate the SELECT knob to the 07 PT Meters menu, 
and then press the SELECT knob to access the 07 PT Meter read-only menus. Rotate the SELECT 
knob to view the various PT meters.
METER: 07A PT Status
This read-only menu allows you to scroll through three separate screens to display: the PT’s 
charging status/fault, the Power status, and fi nally the Relay status.
Info: This menu is used to determine if the PT controller is working correctly and for 
troubleshooting. For any fault mode displayed in the status menu, refer to Section 10.3.2

This is a sample from mine that I've been recording. Plus it show lifetime to batteries. After 11 months  so far mines at 1.36 MWH.

[Chad Heiser]

Yes I am aware of those menus.  For this test, I was more interested in tracking the actual readings than the cumulative ones.  I'm still only part time and don't use the trailer every day.  When it isn't in use, it sits indoors in my shop and I isolate the PT from the batteries and the array so it doesn't give me a no sun fault code (it will give a fault if the controller doesn't detect any power on the PV input terminals for 24 hours).  In my dark shop, the panels aren't exposed to sun so the code happens after the first day.  

I'll go down and get my power generated to date information after work tomorrow.  That will only be the power from this last trip and my first test.  The rest of the time it has been in the shop.  

As I said earlier, I wanted to reset the meters to get just the data from this trip, but I forgot to do that before I left.

[Jack Mayer]

Chad, what is your phantom draw averaging on that coach?  Are you doing anything to manage that, or are you like me, and ignore it

I'm designing a system at the moment with three (or 4) PAE 4448 inverters in parallel. Solar managed by multiple arrays of panels with PT100's. Have you used any external applications to monitor things? I'm trying to decide if I want to use the Magnums or go to Victrons for this project....any thoughts?

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Jack Mayer

[DKRITTER]

I find this absolutely fascinating but I don't have a clue what you're saying.

 

 

[Chad Heiser]

3 hours ago, Jack Mayer said:

Chad, what is your phantom draw averaging on that coach?  Are you doing anything to manage that, or are you like me, and ignore it

I'm designing a system at the moment with three (or 4) PAE 4448 inverters in parallel. Solar managed by multiple arrays of panels with PT100's. Have you used any external applications to monitor things? I'm trying to decide if I want to use the Magnums or go to Victrons for this project....any thoughts?

 

Jack,

I am like you and ignore the phantom draws with the solar I have now.  Actually, my trailer is still so new and has been used so little so far that I haven't calculated what my phantom draws are yet.  Based on my testing so far, I don't know that I ever will either.  I am definitely producing enough power to not worry about them.

I am not using any external applications currently.  I am interested in the Magnum ME-MW-W MagWeb but I do not have an always on internet solution in my trailer currently to take advantage of it.  It does have some limitations and doesn't appear to integrate with the PT-100 yet though.  This is one area where I think Magnum is somewhat lacking.  They provide a wealth of information through the ME-ARC, but they don't have a great solution for getting this data to another device.  If remote monitoring is really important to your system, it might push me over to Victron.  I think they have more access, but I would have to research it more to confirm exactly what they can provide that Magnum does not.

I really wish Magnum would come up with an app or similar product that put all the ME-ARC functionality on an IOS or Android app through Bluetooth or WiFi.

[Chad Heiser]

3 hours ago, DKRITTER said:

I find this absolutely fascinating but I don't have a clue what you're saying.

 

 

Solar and power in general in RV's is fascinating to me as well.  I am self taught on most of this stuff.  I did have the advantage that my dad was an electrician and I used to work with him when I was a kid, so I have a basic electrical background.  It really isn't that complicated though and I'm happy to answer any questions I can.  There is still a lot I don't know, but each new project forces me to research and learn.

[Jack Mayer]

On 4/27/2017 at 11:39 AM, Chad Heiser said:

 

I really wish Magnum would come up with an app or similar product that put all the ME-ARC functionality on an IOS or Android app through Bluetooth or WiFi.

Yeah, for SURE....

Victron does have very good monitoring on external devices. I'm installing a Victron battery monitor in my new truck, since I have an electric battery based apu for cooling. I'll give you external access so you can play with it, once I get it in. 

I use an ATT Homebase (and other stuff) for Internet access "on the fly". But you might use the Mobley....I'm about to order one. That would give you unlimited data and "always on" Internet from your not always used" trailer. You need to retire.

[Jack Mayer]

On 4/27/2017 at 8:29 AM, DKRITTER said:

I find this absolutely fascinating but I don't have a clue what you're saying.

 

 

The basics are pretty well laid out on my website. LInk in signature. I'm happy to answer questions.

[Chad Heiser]

2 hours ago, Jack Mayer said:

I use an ATT Homebase (and other stuff) for Internet access "on the fly". But you might use the Mobley....I'm about to order one. That would give you unlimited data and "always on" Internet from your not always used" trailer. You need to retire.

I've been thinking about getting a Mobley.  Ive been following the thread on them.  I definitely wish I could retire, but that's still a few years off.

[lockmup68]

I used the Mobley in Crossville for the first time. some testing in Crossville. not too shabby. Plugged it into the lighter today on way down to Chattanooga and back and worked great.

 

 

[lockmup68]

On 4/30/2017 at 9:47 AM, Jack Mayer said:

Victron does have very good monitoring on external devices. I'm installing a Victron battery monitor in my new truck, since I have an electric battery based apu for cooling. I'll give you external access so you can play with it, once I get it in. 

2

I think I'm going Victron, Cost is sixes with Magnum, but the display is calling my name. I also like the surge coverage. It is double on the Victron. 

[Chad Heiser]

You can't go wrong with either.  I look forward to hearing what you think of the set up.  That Victron GUI remote is really nice.

I'll have my Mobley next week.  Hopefully I won't have any issues getting it activated (like needing to have a new SIM sent out).  We'll see how it goes.