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Kirk W

Where will healthcare go in the near future?

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. Do we agree that access to equal quality/quantity healthcare is a right of citizenship, or perhaps of existence? Historically it has not been true in most of the world, if it is anywhere.

 

At present 32 out of 33 developed countries have universal health coverage with the US being the sole exception. Maybe that's not "most of the world" but IMO the US should be comparing itself to equivalent developed countries, not "most of the world." Attached is a list of others that do provide this.

Edited by docj

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Over the last few years, I've noticed on many forums (And gee, not all RV'ing related:)!), that another method of separation between the overall good, neutral, evil opinions of ACA lies on the financial front. I say 'another' as it's obvious that political differences is usually seen as the primary separation of opinions...

 

-Those all on Medicare, have a less impacted opinion on ACA

 

-Those Pre 65 Retired, without covered or heavily subsidized Health Insurance, have another view

 

-Those still in the work force, with covered or heavily subsidized Health Insurance, have another view

 

-Those with lower income, and prior were not covered by Employee Health Insurance and now obtaining ACA subsidy, have another

 

 

And that is understandable, as on many things those that are receiving a specific benefit and or not having to pay too much for something - are usually fine with the way things are:)! While those that are not able to receive, and or feel they are paying thru the nose for something - are usually wanting this injustice to be corrected:)!

 

Me? Yeah, I've whine many times that our retirement planning never budgeted for this large of a monthly outlay for less health insurance then we'd ever had before. So much so, that this year we elected not to pay for Health Insurance. In contrast, my little sister is a many decade meth addict, EBT carrying, scurrying from the bright lights great sponge on society - with heavily subsidized Gold ACA coverage.... Gee, I'm not a fan of ACA as it is now. And surprise, she thinks it rocks!

 

Yep I want changes. Yep I want to help those that 'can't' (Vs 'won't') help themselves (BIL is very low functioning Down Sydrome, and l feel myself, and society, have an obligation to help him, and likewise...). Yep I want no pre existing blocks. Yep I want a right to choose yes or no to living. Yep I want less overhead and non value added portions of our overall medical landscape removed. Yep I want medical professionals to make a good living, and return on their efforts to become educated. Yep I want less profits, and actually would prefer a Nationalized Health Coverage for all. Yep, I sure don't want Congress to have a different Health Coverage then all of us...

 

I could (As some of you know!) go on. But I'll stop, with only two more 'Yep's'. Yep, I'd like to know what happen to Jimmy Hoffa. And, Yep, I'd also like see an amendment for term caps in congress....

 

ACA a success? Sure, for those it helped. ACA a success? Many feel it is a failure! --- It all comes down to the ones that are given too, vs those that are taken from...

 

Once I get smart enough to figure out how to stay out of these kinds of threads - I'm sure I'll come up with first a USA comprehensive reform plan. Then roll it out thru the rest of the world....

 

Don't wait up for me! And best to all,

Smitty

 

I can answer one of your questions with no problem. Jimmy Hoffa is on an island with Elvis and JFK, the same island where they filmed the moon landing on.

Edited by chirakawa

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Chirawaka my wife is making fun of me because I want to stop in Roswell. Seems like I need you to argue my case.

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Chirawaka my wife is making fun of me because I want to stop in Roswell. Seems like I need you to argue my case.

 

You'll come a lot closer to finding a Martian than winning an argument with a woman.

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Interesting to watch Rand Paul and Tom Cotton starting to dig their heels in a little especially regarding gutting of Medicaid expansion. They both come from states where the uninsured rate was slashed by over 40%. Other states with Republican Senators that had over 40% decrease in uninsured are: Colo (Gardner)Iowa (Grassley, Ersnst)OH (Portman) and LA (Cassidy).

 

Smitty, you would think people would vote their economic interest on this issue but the results don't really show this. I think a much better indicator is what news network they watch. I estimate the percentage of the population that understands the ACA and it's relationship to Medicaid, Medicare, and the employer market is at the very best 5%.

 

The post election quote by Obama that said a lot to me was "Facts have a way of asserting themselves." I suspect this summarizes what we are about to witness. Easy to tear down. Now try to build.

 

Doc---agreed....

 

Chirawaka----Ha...A very wise man.

Edited by Daveh

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Joel,

You answered just as I was about to point out the same thing. I lived in Germany for 7 years and their universal health care is excellent. The Canadian Universal health care is also a closer to home example. The rhetoric and misleading comments, here in the USA, cloud the ability for many to see that universal health care and social safety nets work well only in civilized countries.

 

I am considering moving to Canada. Once approved for emigration with a goal of getting dual citizenship, you become immediately (3 months or so) enrolled in the Canadian health care system. An interesting note I found was that Canada does not tax American citizens for income earned in the US, and the US does not pursue taxes for our income earned in Canada.

 

So examples of Democracies/Parliamentary monarchies with universal health care abound. They do not feel the need to create fear, or make scapegoats of the poor.

 

So rather than get political, I suggest those who think they have all the answers look to several countries who are no better or brighter than we are in the US, (or are they?) that manage to have social programs and not only not go broke, but thrive with much less violent crime, especially shooting, and simply ask why we here can't figure it out. I can sell my property and move there with no change in anything except less crime, less social denigration as a cause rather than an effect. We spent a lot of time in Canada when we did a year up and back to do Alaska for 5 months.

 

BTW I am glad my wife still works. I may try to go back to work after I am fully recovered from the two spinal surgeries I had done November 10th and 15th. See, Canada does not accept retired couples for emigration. At least one of a couple must be working. Once recovered I will want to too We may just move to Colorado as originally planned. But we are leaving the South no matter what. We only came down here and off the road to care for aging parents, and the last one in our care left us a few weeks ago. So we are wrapping up business here, and deciding where up North we will move. Suburban Vancouver area is very nice. And easy access to bases in Washington state. I like the rural areas near several border crossings with Canada. Vancouver and coastal areas are preferred as the ocean has a moderating effect on the weather/temps.

 

The question we should be asking is how the other countries do their healthcare so well without all the rhetoric. More importantly the why. The answers to both questions would involve politics so I'll leave that for your own personal research.

 

Good posts Paul, Zulu, Daveh, Rob, and Barb!

Edited by RV

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You'll come a lot closer to finding a Martian than winning an argument with a woman.

 

 

Stop it please! My stomach muscles hurt from all this laughing... (And note, I have not shared this thread with my DW!)

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Dave,

 

"The post election quote by Obama that said a lot to me was "Facts have a way of asserting themselves." I suspect this summarizes what we are about to witness. Easy to tear down. Now try to build."

 

I like that sentence!!! And I suspect the 'facts' differ greatly based, upon the a Networks slant...

 

We can usually determine which Network a person usually watches, based upon the comments they make:)!

 

One thing for sure, the last of the Big Three Networks should be more concerned about the next few years of DC, then say Netflix of Amazon shows. It's shaping up for DC to be a 'Drama/Love/Horror/Non Reality/Soap Opera show All-In-One!!

 

I really wish George Carlin was still with us. To say the least, he had a unique way of covering what was going on in DC and Society as a whole:)!

 

​Best to all. And guys, all my respect to all of you/us - we may not always agree on all subjects, but I value the views from all!!

Smitty

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I am considering moving to Canada. Once approved for emigration with a goal of getting dual citizenship, you become immediately (3 months or so) enrolled in the Canadian health care system. An interesting note I found was that Canada does not tax American citizens for income earned in the US, and the US does not pursue taxes for our income earned in Canada.

 

 

You might want to check on the anticipated delay in processing your application, if you choose to file one. It's my understanding that the Canadian immigration system is woefully behind even for routine things like visas for spouses of Canadian citizens.

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Joel,

I am researching it now. I am still on muscle relaxers so take a lot longer to get things done. :o

 

I'm re-tired so have some time.

 

I'll keep posting about it.

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I can suggest ONE Thing that will fix the whole mess in a hurry- make the politicians who pass this stuff subject to the same healthcare we peasants are.

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Joel,

I am researching it now. I am still on muscle relaxers so take a lot longer to get things done. :o

 

I'm re-tired so have some time.

 

I'll keep posting about it.

 

 

RV:

 

There was one thing about your previous post that didn't ring true to me. Canadian citizens have to declare US pensions and SSA payments. Maybe US work income is excluded (although I don't know anything about that) but pensions aren't. That's why we didn't pursue our investigations any further. There is credit for taxes paid to the US, but I think the net result is an increase because Canadian rates are mostly higher than ours.

 

"If you receive a pension from any foreign country, including the United States, you must include it in your Canadian tax return. Due to the tax treaty between the two countries, you can deduct any U.S. taxes paid on your pension, as well as 15 percent of any U.S. Social Security benefits."

 

Here's the link: https://turbotax.intuit.ca/tax-resources/tax-tips/tax-law/us-pensions-taxed-to-canadians-living-in-canada.jsp

 

Joel

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Good info Joel, thanks! I only did the first overview and am still getting my mind wrapped around being able to finally leave here. Going on a trip to Denver to see if my old body can handle the attitude at altitude. THen we will decide if we want to go back to Canada.

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Good info Joel, thanks! I only did the first overview and am still getting my mind wrapped around being able to finally leave here. Going on a trip to Denver to see if my old body can handle the attitude at altitude. THen we will decide if we want to go back to Canada.

Check out Colorado Springs area. Way better than Denver. The Springs has a better environment, IMO. We spend half the year in Woodland Park, but it is at 8500'. May be an issue for some people. The Springs is 2500' lower.

Edited by Jack Mayer

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Check out Colorado Springs area. Way better than Denver. The Springs has a better environment, IMO. We spend half the year in Woodland Park, but it is at 8500'. May be an issue for some people. The Springs is 2500' lower.

 

The Springs is lower than Woodland Park, but still higher than the "Mile High City". However, there is far less traffic (although more than when we moved here 25 years ago) and for a military retiree a much better location with three major military bases in the area.

 

Edit: And there is hardly any air pollution here as opposed to Denver. Air quality here is good enough that we are exempt from Emissions Testing.

Edited by Chalkie

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Just look at what the entire civilized world does on health care. All of the other industrialized countries offer health care to all

of their people. Only the US doesn't. What does that tell you.

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I couldn't read it all bc of pay wall and I am already paying for two newspapers. I did see this AM on twitter a Fox News congressional correspondent say that repubs are leaning toward repeal and targeting replacement in 2018. ACA would function in 2018 as is though. Then a number of comments making the point that there is no way they would attempt replacement in election year so it will get kicked back further. So, on it goes.

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Here is some interesting reading on the subject of the thread, where does health care go next...?

 

January 5, The Wall Street Journal

 

Any article that starts out with the assumption that the ACA is a failure is probably not worth reading. The second biggest problem with the ACA is with those who oppose it, have done everything they can to try and make it a failure. Reminds me of the old story about the kid who killed his parents, and then asked the court for leniency because he was an orphan.

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Yes Paul. The glaring contradiction in all of this is that if the ACA were such a failure then it would be a piece of cake to replace. Republicans tried to strangle this legislation in the crib but it keeps surviving and growing (not thriving though). The ACA actually is remarkable in that it has made huge strides despite one party and several states working against it.

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There are some Republican plans they are more like bullet points though. This article by Sarah Kliff of Vox (she was formerly the health care reporter for the Washington Post) is quite fair and gives a good summary of existing proposals. I doubt any of these are what actually will be the plan but they all have things in common and probably provide an outline of what an alternative will look like. The problems for Republicans is that to have something as good as or better than the ACA you really end up with the ACA but calling it a different name or dropping all pretense and moving to single payer.

 

http://www.vox.com/2016/11/17/13626438/obamacare-replacement-plans-comparison

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If it sounds to good to be true it generally is.

 

There is no simple solution at this point, it will be a long haul but IMHO the secret is to start at the beginning with people taking care of themselves instead of depending on or delegating their responsibilities to someone or something else. Trying to lump everyone into a one size fits all pot will not work as you can tell from the many diverse points of view represented hear. We need choice and the opportunity to educate our selves on healthcare and choose the best product for our individual health situations and individual budgets. The small guy does needs a voice in the matter so as not to be steam rolled by big government.

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If it sounds to good to be true it generally is.

 

There is no simple solution at this point, it will be a long haul but IMHO the secret is to start at the beginning with people taking care of themselves instead of depending on or delegating their responsibilities to someone or something else. Trying to lump everyone into a one size fits all pot will not work as you can tell from the many diverse points of view represented hear. We need choice and the opportunity to educate our selves on healthcare and choose the best product for our individual health situations and individual budgets. The small guy does needs a voice in the matter so as not to be steam rolled by big government.

 

 

Here is the basic problem as I see it. First of all there are virtually no controls on the cost of healthcare. So as long as insurers can raise premiums to cover their increased payments to health care providers, they will do so until they can no longer raise premiums, then they will go out of business.

 

In today's market the cost of a family plan with reasonable deductions, co-payments, and out of pocked expenses, is about $10,000 per year, more or less. If you dont have an employer that pays most of that, a lot of people simply cant afford health insurance. There are some high deductible plans that work for some people, but again, not a lot of people have the cash on hand to pay the high deductible in the need should arise.

 

One way to start to improve the situation is to work to raise wages and benefits for millions of working poor is the USA, but few people want to do that.

 

Thus here we are.

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