tinstartrvlr Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Edit: Found an earlier post that discussed this issue, so maybe I don't have a problem after all. Bubbles are common to a new roof apparently. I took a look at my roof of my BRAND NEW TT a while ago. I have had this TT one month. I noticed that anywhere anyone has walked, the TPO membrane has separated from the underlayment and bubbled up, in the shape of a footprint. It is the Alpha Superflex roof system by the way. As soon as I saw the footprints, I talked to the roof maker, and they said I need to talk to the mfg. Called the mfg, and they said perhaps the glue just hasn't set up because it could have been rolled on a little thicker than usual. They told me to give it time and see if it settles down. (I would think that several months in the Az sun would have cured the glue by now, but maybe not). Okay, I can see the roof membrane being a little mushy if that was the case, and maybe it would show footprints. Now I have discovered random bubbles popping up on the slide, where no one walks or otherwise disturbs the membrane. Called the mfg and they tell me it is just cosmetic and shouldn't be a problem. Not sure I am believing what they say....seems like it's already a problem, unless membranes aren't really supposed to stayed glued down. Pic attached Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishjim Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I don't believe them ! Jim Spence 2000 Dodge 3500 1 ton QC 4x4 dually 5.9 diesel LB BD exhaust brake, 6 spd manual trans 34CKTS Cedar Creek 5er, Trail-Air hitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Greg Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 A couple small bubbles might be acceptable but I think there's a problem on yours. Greg Greg & Judy Bahnmiller Class of 2007 2014 F350 2007 HitchHiker Champagne Both sold 2/19, settled in Foley, AL after 12 years on the road http://bahnmilleradventure.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I agree with the other opinions. A few bubbles near the edges or where there is caulking is pretty normal, but it should take years for any of them to get larger if at all and the footprints would be completely unacceptable to me. I suggest that you call the manufacturer of the membrane and talk to them about it if you can do so. My experience is limited to the Dicor products, but most of them will support the end user as they want their products to be installed properly. You should be able to walk on the roof without damage to it, as long as you use proper footwear that won't scuff or tear the membrane. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinstartrvlr Posted March 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Kirk, Talked to the mfg of the roof membrane, and there doesn't seem to be a problem with the membrane itself but the way it was installed. So I have been in contact with the mfg. As I suspected, along with the comments here, it is beyond a cosmetic problem. We shall see..... Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I'm not at all surprised by what you have learned and I agree that the problem is in the installation. I'd be suspicious of a glue problem, bad or improper glue choice or perhaps workmanship. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 There is a possibility a worker, either at the factory or at the RV dealership, had a petroleum product on his/her shoes when they walked on your roof. Proving that would be quite difficult. I would press to have this corrected while under warranty. Begin with filing a written claim, and document all conversations you have with the membrane mfrg., the RV mfgr., and the RV dealership for future reference and proof of your attempts to get this corrected. FWIW, we bought a new 5er in 2005, when we sold it in 2013 it still did not have any bubbles larger than a couple inches in diameter under the EPEM membrane. 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinstartrvlr Posted March 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Ray, I had no idea that just residual stuff on someones shoes could cause that kind of problem. Wow. But it seems to be related to pressure, because I see evidence of my own footprints up there from when I went to take a look at things, and I'm pretty certain other than dust I had nothing on my shoes. I am already documenting everything, and the mfg has been good about responding to the problem, even to go so far as to admit there may be a manufacturing issue. However, they can't tell unless they see it, so I hope there is a way for them to see it without me having to go to the factory or something like that.... Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirakawa Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I can't see the attached pic. Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie. Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die. Albert King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishjim Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Kirk, Talked to the mfg of the roof membrane, and there doesn't seem to be a problem with the membrane itself but the way it was installed. So I have been in contact with the mfg. As I suspected, along with the comments here, it is beyond a cosmetic problem. We shall see..... Sounds like somebody forgot to stir the glue pot. Mines an "05" and not a bubble one on the roof, A couple patches where a tree refused to move out of my way Jim Spence 2000 Dodge 3500 1 ton QC 4x4 dually 5.9 diesel LB BD exhaust brake, 6 spd manual trans 34CKTS Cedar Creek 5er, Trail-Air hitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinstartrvlr Posted March 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Didn't attach the pics originally since I found the other post that sort of answered the question. I'll see if I can get a couple to upload. Pic 1 is of the slide obviously, and 2 is a partial section of the roof. There is actually a trail of footprints front to rear. Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 That is by far the worst that I have ever seen. If it were me, I'd see if the membrane manufacturer's rep can receive and look at some of those pictures to get them to help communicate with the dealer. I would also get into contact with the RV manufacturer and see if they will look at those pictures. Do not let them put you off! Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 This website may offer some insight into the correct procedure for installing a new EPDM roof membrane: http://www.motorhome.com/rv-how-to/rv-tech-tips/fiddlin-on-the-roof-motorhome-rubber-roof-replacement/ Apparently there are many things, that if performed improperly, or in the wrong weather, that results in a poor installation. I found that article in these search results. Hopefully this will help you with communicating with the RV mfgr. and the selling dealership. You always have the option sending a type-written letter to MotorHome magazine hot line 2750 Park View Court,suite 240 Oxnard, CA 93036 They print success stories in every issue negotiating RV owners problems in dealing with RV dealerships and RV mfgr's to get a problem resolved. 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarvan Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 What Kirk said. Unsat all the way.... don't give up. Someone has to "eat" this, and it should NOT be you. In a balls to the wall with Heartland myself right now... hang in there. Previously a 2017 Forest River, Berkshire 38A, "The Dragonship". https://dragonship.blog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirakawa Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 The OP does not have an EPDM roof and does not have a motorhome. To the OP.................no way would I accept that roof. However, the solution may involve you having to return the trailer to the manufacturer or at the very least leave it with the dealer for an extended period. Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie. Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die. Albert King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishjim Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 That is by far the worst that I have ever seen. If it were me, I'd see if the membrane manufacturer's rep can receive and look at some of those pictures to get them to help communicate with the dealer. I would also get into contact with the RV manufacturer and see if they will look at those pictures. Do not let them put you off! And I would have BBB number memorized. I would demand very prompt attn to this NOW... Do not delay and get pics of everything from every angle you can get. Also whats to stop that roof from blowing off going down the road causing an accident if it goes over a vehicle behind you ! COSMETIC my arse ! Jim Spence 2000 Dodge 3500 1 ton QC 4x4 dually 5.9 diesel LB BD exhaust brake, 6 spd manual trans 34CKTS Cedar Creek 5er, Trail-Air hitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishjim Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I think you should be in negotiations on getting a new trailer, What you have is a super big mess and I am questioning their integrity in selling this to you. You may have to get a lawyer involved. Jim Spence 2000 Dodge 3500 1 ton QC 4x4 dually 5.9 diesel LB BD exhaust brake, 6 spd manual trans 34CKTS Cedar Creek 5er, Trail-Air hitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinstartrvlr Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Morning all, I have been in contact with the mfg; they are being very receptive about the problem. They suggested the glue may not yet have set up so I agreed to give it a little time (a month and I am a couple weeks in already) to see if it settles down (I doubt it will, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment). They said they really need to see the roof to be sure of the problem, and have no problem with me taking it to the factory. There are dealers who can do the repair but I would prefer going to the factory, and definitely don't want to go back to the dealer I bought it from. Except that the factory is 2500 miles away from where I am now. So my next step after the month is up is to make plans I guess to see what my options are. I kind of agree with you Jim, but I really hope I don't have to go that route. Thanks for all the input. Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 I'm not sure that your dealer had any real part in the problem, but they clearly were not helpful to you. It may not hurt to wait a month, but unless those bubbles completely disappear I'd still plan to take it back to the factory. And I would be very careful about what you accept as an answer since your RV only has a 1 year warranty from the manufacturer. I'll be very surprised if it does not prove to be a problem of improper installation of the membrane. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishjim Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 I agree with Kirk, When the dealer said cosmetic alarms went off. That roof is going to have to be stripped completely down and done over. And this is where the part in me says I Bought a new rv I want a new RV not a re-roofed one and this is where the BBB may need to step in. I would be talking with people in charge and nailing down the next steps, Who's paying ? A 2500 mile trip is not cheap, How long in a motel room ? And get some details in writing. I believe you can get a free consultation with an attorney. This is not the time to see how sweet you can be. It's a mistake that was made and the factory has to pay for this mistake ! But it requires reaching an agreement with the top of the chain of command, possibly your attorney talking to their attorney then and only then do you have a foot to stand on and know exactly what is going to take place. MHO they should pay your expenses for getting there also but thats only dreaming Jim Spence 2000 Dodge 3500 1 ton QC 4x4 dually 5.9 diesel LB BD exhaust brake, 6 spd manual trans 34CKTS Cedar Creek 5er, Trail-Air hitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Greg Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 My two cents.....before you get a lawyer involved try and work out a satisfactory resolution yourself with the manufacturers management. Once lawyers are involved the manufacturer will probably step back and talk through their lawyer and you will lose any control you may have. You can always bring in a lawyer later if your not satisfied. I would be very surprised if any travel expenses would be picked up, most warranties don't cover incidental expenses but you can always try. It might be possible that the manufacturer can arrange for the roof repair by an approved repair facility closer to you. I would expect that an RV manufacturer should have qualified resources (dealers?) scattered around the county. Greg Greg & Judy Bahnmiller Class of 2007 2014 F350 2007 HitchHiker Champagne Both sold 2/19, settled in Foley, AL after 12 years on the road http://bahnmilleradventure.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishjim Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 My two cents.....before you get a lawyer involved try and work out a satisfactory resolution yourself with the manufacturers management. Once lawyers are involved the manufacturer will probably step back and talk through their lawyer and you will lose any control you may have. You can always bring in a lawyer later if your not satisfied. I would be very surprised if any travel expenses would be picked up, most warranties don't cover incidental expenses but you can always try. It might be possible that the manufacturer can arrange for the roof repair by an approved repair facility closer to you. I would expect that an RV manufacturer should have qualified resources (dealers?) scattered around the county. Greg A roof repair on a brand new trailer Greg ? This is a badly damaged POS...They owe him another brand new, Maybe a couple employees need to be fired but just the same they shipped out to a dealer a piece of crap ! If you bought a new car and it got a fender bent to where it had to be replaced while they were prepping it , Would you settle for a new fender painted to match the car hopefully. NO I wouldn't think so. Jim Spence 2000 Dodge 3500 1 ton QC 4x4 dually 5.9 diesel LB BD exhaust brake, 6 spd manual trans 34CKTS Cedar Creek 5er, Trail-Air hitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Greg Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 As I said.......my two cents and a "satisfactory resolution". Yours may be different than mine. I do not believe that involving lawyers always makes things better, especially at the beginning of an issue. I lump lawyers and politicians together. Greg Greg & Judy Bahnmiller Class of 2007 2014 F350 2007 HitchHiker Champagne Both sold 2/19, settled in Foley, AL after 12 years on the road http://bahnmilleradventure.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpsinc Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 The trailer was purchase with the expectation that it would be like each of the other new trailers that was sold by that dealer. It is not unreasonable to expect that you shouldnt have to take YOUR time to return it to the manufacturer for them to correct what should have been done correctly the first time. That being said, mistakes do happen and the product should be exchanged for one that is satisfactory. If it was Home Depot, Lowes or Walmart, I bet there wouldnt be a discussion or any effort to cause you to take a bunch of pictures to prove that you have an unsatisfactory product. You are an unsatisfied customer, and the product should be exchanged for one that is satisfactory. We cant get American manufacturing back on track if this kind of thing has to be proven to be defective. If the customer is dissatified, then make it right and compensate them for their inconvenience. The other trailer owners are not having to pony up time, effort and money for their SATISFACTORY trailers, and they paid the money just like the owner of this defective trailer. And remember, trailer problems almost always start at the roof. Marcel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinstartrvlr Posted April 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Greetings all, Thanks for the input from everyone. I agree with what Greg says, but I also agree with what Jim says as far as a replacement and not a fix. Both the dealer and the mfg are saying it may fix itself in a month or so. It has been almost a month, so soon I will be back on the phone. The mfg has been very receptive to the problem (so far) and should that change somewhere down the road, then perhaps a lawyer is a solution. But once that happens, (a lawyer) things will drag out forever, and if the roof leaks and basically starts damaging things, and I lose the legal battle, I am left with something worse than what I had to begin with and a bunch of legal bills on top of that. So I am going to be patient for now...... Ya just can't RV without a hitch.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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