NevRLube Redux

Jack Mayer · August 7, 2015

There is no question standard bearings are more available. I have lots of experience with standard bearings, including lots of roadside service "opportunities". Those opportunities are what motivated to me to look at Never Lube. Since putting on NL I've never touched a bearing. I'll stick with my NL, but it is good advice to carry a spare hub.

SuiteSuccess · August 7, 2015

There is no question standard bearings are more available. I have lots of experience with standard bearings, including lots of roadside service "opportunities". Those opportunities are what motivated to me to look at Never Lube. Since putting on NL I've never touched a bearing. I'll stick with my NL, but it is good advice to carry a spare hub.

Jack,

I'll be sticking with them also since I'm so invested $$. What are your feelings about the Chinese cartridges that Dexter seems to be specing?

Jack Mayer · August 8, 2015

Jack,

I'll be sticking with them also since I'm so invested $$. What are your feelings about the Chinese cartridges that Dexter seems to be specing?

I don't have an opinion on them, since I have no experience with them. I've not heard anything negative on them though. Do you even have a choice?

SuiteSuccess · August 8, 2015

I don't have an opinion on them, since I have no experience with them. I've not heard anything negative on them though. Do you even have a choice?

Don't think I do have a choice based on my search.

phoenix2013 · August 9, 2015

Here's a question for all you wits to ponder?

The RV industry has been a perpetual laggard slow to observe and react to the changes it has been creating. My advanced age allowed me to observe that in two-three decades they doubled and even tripled the weights of fifths.

When in the past 8K was normal and 10K was heavy, now 15-18K is "normal" and 22-28K is heavy.

Yea, Dexter always had axles and brakes to do the "right thing", but the industry had to be dragged screaming and kicking to move from 6K axles and brakes to 7K and again to 8K. And again from electric brakes to hydraulic.

They had to be dragged screaming and kicking from 15 inch tires to 16 inch tires and now to 17.5 inch tires.

And who can forget the "pop corn" days of Goodyear tires and the progression of D ratings to E ratings to G rating until the H ratings of today.

They like to install the absolute minimums that they think will do the job and still allow them to show that they "left some margin" below the maximum allowable load. There is a difference when the safety margin or failure margin is 2% vs. 25-50%.

My second fifth was built with 15 inch tires rated for around 9K (total), it weighed over 12K, even changing (myself) to 16 inch tires barely got me (then) to around 12K. That's after I popped bunch of the 15 inch ones, one for every trip I took.

Not all Chinese products are junk, but many are, the problem is technology transfer and quality control. I've been involved with manufacturing all my life and I moved those manufacturing companies to different locations utilizing new vendors. Every time I started using a new vendor they would repeat (or try to repeat) the screwups of the previous vendor until "they got good".

Manufacturing is not just making things, there is always "black magic" involved. The little tidbits of how to do it right every time, the "gotchas" that are not part of the drawing or procedures, the things that only the "old" engineer knows, or the guy on the line has been doing for years, "but it was never documented". You can move production of the part to China, but unless these other things are moved also, they will produce junk.

If Timken is now made in China these day the quality of those bearings will depend on how much of their decades worth of "black magic" they transferred to China.

I had an extensive discussion at a trade show with a Chinese rep (an American) whose company helps to find companies in China to manufacture products. His assessment was that it is a manufacturing wild, wild west there and unless you have a physical presence there, on site, engineering wise and quality control wise, junk will arrive in a container in a California port to meet you. Many of the companies that they "visit" with very professional web sites and brochures are a house with manufacturing in the living room staffed by relatives.

You can be pretty certain that if the product made in China that is non US branded and "re-appeared" on our shores as a result of stolen technology, or reverse engineered technology it is full of "gotchas", inadequacies and lacks the years of improvements that a branded US product had to go through. But I can also assure you that if it is cheaper than US product, the RV industry will love it and embrace it with both arms.

But getting back to the fundamentals of my question. Perhaps it's time for the spindles and bearings to grow in size to take care of the loads of the new 25-30K fifths, just like the axles and tires had to.

Jack Mayer · August 9, 2015

Here's a question for all you wits to ponder?

The RV industry has been a perpetual laggard slow to observe and react to the changes it has been creating...........

But getting back to the fundamentals of my question. Perhaps it's time for the spindles and bearings to grow in size to take care of the loads of the new 25-30K fifths, just like the axles and tires had to.

Well, as many of you have heard me say in the past - the RV industry generally produces "junk". It meets the demands of the market for "Flash",, but from a technical perspective it (in general) is pretty behind what one would desire. In no way does it compare to automotive production or yachts.

Henry's point is well taken. Perhaps it is time to put true commercial running gear under these larger trailers. I've been wanting to do that for some time. The issue for a general product is multi-fold. But the biggest barrier is that people will not pay for quality (vs. "flash"). New Horizons, Forks and Spacecraft are all proof of that. In total they produce around 60 units a year. Max. And I cannot tell you how many customers I have talked to that want to cut out something like disc brakes when trying to get that "dream trailer" price down.

The market is pretty good at driving what the product content is. And clearly, the market does not want higher-level infrastructure. It wants flash.

rickeieio · August 9, 2015

Well, as many of you have heard me say in the past - the RV industry generally produces "junk". It meets the demands of the market for "Flash",, but from a technical perspective it (in general) is pretty behind what one would desire. In no way does it compare to automotive production or yachts.

Henry's point is well taken. Perhaps it is time to put true commercial running gear under these larger trailers. I've been wanting to do that for some time. The issue for a general product is multi-fold. But the biggest barrier is that people will not pay for quality (vs. "flash"). New Horizons, Forks and Spacecraft are all proof of that. In total they produce around 60 units a year. Max. And I cannot tell you how many customers I have talked to that want to cut out something like disc brakes when trying to get that "dream trailer" price down.

The market is pretty good at driving what the product content is. And clearly, the market does not want higher-level infrastructure. It wants flash.

Well stated. Now can I have my soapbox back?

phoenix2013 · August 9, 2015

That's why if it's left up to the customers junk will be junk and junk will rule. Any salesman caught in a frank moment will tell you, "Never underestimate the stupidity of the person coming through the door". "Even the ones 'educated' by the brochures, TV or magazines mostly have no clue".

I'll second what Jack says. Anytime one has direct contact with customers, particularly on high end products you inevitably run into ones with Chevy pockets and Mercedes tastes. Auto industry has operated on the "principle" of helping the customers to achieve this illusion of getting something for nothing for decades until Nader went nutty and exposed this charade. At first the government didn't want to embarrass the industry too much, remember when disk brakes were "optional". Eventually the "optional" things became required and by the time airbags appeared they didn't give the industry any choice. These days junk in the automotive industry is exposed immediately and there are serious consequences for selling it. Which means that cheap customers (an enormous majority) are not driving the industry when it comes to safety items and critical items.

I don't want to leave you guys in a funk, there is a hope on the horizon. NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) is finally getting "interested" in the RV industry. There is an article in the June issue of RV Pro (page 46) what is sparking their "interest".

http://read.uberflip.com/i/517314-rv-pro-june-15

Good read, it also discusses the difficulty of more conscientious manufacturers dealing with bad parts and suppliers who build them or import them.

Also, in other parts of this publication the recalls of various RVs and RV products are shown front and center. But remember this is a magazine sent to the RV industry members, I am curious, since I don't read these anymore, are the recall notices splashed all over the pages of Trailer Life of MotorHome?

Alie&Jim's Carrilite · August 9, 2015

Completely off subject, but in line with Phoenix above- Interesting that they didn't mention Lippert in any of that article. And second is that they didn't touch the tire safety issues.

No back to our regularly scheduled subject!

SuiteSuccess · August 9, 2015

I will make the recommendation that I bought my parts from DexterPartsOnLine. I actually thought I was buying direct from Dexter Axles but this is a separate business, however my parts came direct from Dexter Axles in Indiana so I felt okay. Gordon and Dustin whom I dealt with at DPOL were extremely courteous and actually called me several times when there was a delay in receiving my parts. Of note when I was concerned about the Chinese bearing and I called Dexter Axle direct their "technical" assistance folks were less than knowledgeable about the product and were somewhat hostile that I would question its manufacture or reliability. Dustin then made a call at his insistence to find out about the change in manufacture. Also the bearings from Dexter Axle through their parts store were $158 while the same bearing from PartsOnLine was $125. I had also ordered two hubs with bearings already pressed and they were $350 apiece vs. $450 from Dexter direct. Above info just in case anyone has to order soon.

phoenix2013 · August 9, 2015

Completely off subject, but in line with Phoenix above- Interesting that they didn't mention Lippert in any of that article. And second is that they didn't touch the tire safety issues.

No back to our regularly scheduled subject!

Almost felt when reading it that they were talking about Lippert.