QLStar Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 What type of brake controllers are HDT owners using for their electric trailer brakes since MaxBrake and BrakeSmart are no longer available? Need to know what is available and what is and isn't working. Thanks 2007 Volvo VNL 670, Cummins ISX 450. Auto, APU. "PoTater" 2013 Landmark San Antonio, 41' idahopotater@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFlySwatter Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 After reading what other members said about the Hayes controller, I pulled my Prodigy controller out and put the Hayes air/electric controller in and it works great. Truck and trailer stop as one unit now. I've only ran about 1,000 miles with it but so far I'm liking it and would recommend it. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRChurch Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Like OldFlySwatter wrote, I did the same. I made the replacement during the 2014 ECR in Crossville, TN; it's a very simple installation...especially, if a Jackalopee is installed to interface the truck's electric systems with the trailer's electric systems. The installation seems to be working very well; I've driven about 11k-12k miles with that installation since then. I agree with his recommendation, too. Raymond Raymond (G8r.Ray; i.e., Gator Ray) & JanetGrinnin' ear-to-ear, since 2012-03-142005 Volvo 630 Motor Coach, VE D12 465hp/1650lb-ft, 12 sp FreedomLine (2-Peddle),217in WB, smart car deck/bed by Toterman, Pressure Pro,PowerTank, Crossfire (dual tire pressure equilizer) 2006 smart forTwo Passion (450, Gen I), Ruby Red/Silver2008 smart forTwo Passion (451, Gen II), Blue/Black2009 DRV Mobile Suites 36RS3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreyandSusan Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Same as Bill - using Direclink NE controller with the Direclink actuator. Do not have ABS unit but purchased all compatible components so that it could be added later. Susan & Trey Selman | email | HDT: '01 770 VED12 | 5er: '02 40' Travel Supreme RLTSOA | '16 Piaggio MP3 500 | '15 Smart Cabrio | Personal Blog | HHRV Resource Guide | HHRV Campgrounds | Recreation Vehicle Safety & Education Foundation | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deezl Smoke Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I just bought one of these for the Hitch Hiker. Have not ran it yet. Hope to get it installed soon and see what happens. I'm a work'n on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob A Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I tried several before hearing or the hayes, it works great. 2014 jayco siesmic 3914 1998 volvo 610, singled short ( bought in 2005) 14 speed volvo tranny 2014 Toyota yaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLStar Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I think the Hayes will be the one. Thanks for the input. Quentin 2007 Volvo VNL 670, Cummins ISX 450. Auto, APU. "PoTater" 2013 Landmark San Antonio, 41' idahopotater@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 direct link Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmzero Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I'm about to order a brake controller myself. This seems to be a polarizing issue, but I wanted to ask you guys if there was a general consensus on Hayes vs. Direct Link at this point. The Hayes seems to be pretty popular - http://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Hayes/HA100400B.html Are there any major benefits of one over the other? I have purchased a Jackalopee as well. "Willy Mammoth" - Volvo 730, Sold Heartland Cyclone 4000 Toy HaulerT-Minus 26 years and counting to being a full timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Since you have a newer truck, I'd go with the Direct Link. It seems to be the preferred controller for the newer computer controlled trucks. It's also the one that Gregg uses in his customizations. If our truck was newer I'd use it instead of the Haye's Alie & Jim + 8 paws 2017 DRV Memphis BART- 1998 Volvo 610 Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmzero Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Since you have a newer truck, I'd go with the Direct Link. It seems to be the preferred controller for the newer computer controlled trucks. It's also the one that Gregg uses in his customizations. If our truck was newer I'd use it instead of the Haye's Thanks, Bill and Jim. That's just the explanation and differentiation for which I was looking. DirecLink it is. I sent them an email earlier this morning as soon as I hear back from them I'll get one on order. "Willy Mammoth" - Volvo 730, Sold Heartland Cyclone 4000 Toy HaulerT-Minus 26 years and counting to being a full timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Hayes is elegant simplicity. All it is is a linear power potentiometer in line with your batteries modulating current with air pressure changing the position of the wiper mechanically. That's it, one part, three connections. Direct link seems very sophisticated, if it was developed by the same people who designed the Tucson Brake system I would be intrigued. I spent some time with the Tucson engineer at the Rally, these guys are top shelf designers. Don't know about the technical principles they use to generate the PWM to the pucks, but I would assume these days there is a lot of info on that data bus one can tap into and utilize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I like the Hayes for it's simplicity. It needs nothing but air from the pedal. Nothing computer controlled, it just works. If it was the difference between HD TV and non HD TV that I have to look at every day, then I might want fancy and sophisticated but I don't even look at it when I tow my trailer. It is the last thing I think of after I hitch. The HDT and hayes controller work better than anything I ever towed with, it is the best I have ever had. I don't need to spend more to do "best" more expensively. MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEIFamily Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I need to bite the bullet on one too.. So the one that Bmzero posted is the preferred no frills one? http://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Hayes/HA100400B.html I'm about to order a brake controller myself. This seems to be a polarizing issue, but I wanted to ask you guys if there was a general consensus on Hayes vs. Direct Link at this point. The Hayes seems to be pretty popular - http://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Hayes/HA100400B.html Are there any major benefits of one over the other? I have purchased a Jackalopee as well. 2006 Volvo 670 singled long 2011 Heartland Sundance 3300CK 2006 Smart passion 2001 F350 DRW CREWCAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 That's it. Alie & Jim + 8 paws 2017 DRV Memphis BART- 1998 Volvo 610 Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEIFamily Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Thanks! 2006 Volvo 670 singled long 2011 Heartland Sundance 3300CK 2006 Smart passion 2001 F350 DRW CREWCAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickS Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 If I didn't still have my Maxbrake controller I'd go with the Hayes. It is a little cheaper from Amazon with free shipping. Rick & Carey,Excel W41GKE Wild Cargo Toyhauler Volvo 730, D13, I-shift, 500/1850Brabus Smart Car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think there is a lot of merit in the ability to add ABS later.....if in fact that is possible with the equipment you have or will get. ABS does make a difference on the trailer. You will find out real fast if you test drive one in slippery conditions. It is remarkable. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 The "magic" concept here is proportionality. You have two uncoupled systems basically operating independently, truck brakes and trailer brakes. Each capable of doing each own thing regardless what the other one is doing. The trick is how you mirror each other first and then how you apportion their action to equalize it. The cheapest controllers use time segments which does none of the above well, but it doesn't matter if you use them on a popup behind an SUV, it will do. Pendulums works OK to some extent detecting what's going on, but don't work as well on HDTs where weighst are up there and the trailer doesn't affects the truck as much as a pickup. MaxBrake, BrakeSmart and Hayes work well because they sense what you foot is doing to stop everything. They look at brake line pressure, either air or hydraulic fluid, and generate more or less current depending how hard you press the pedal. The adjustments on these further regulate the ratio between the two systems (equalizing the "aggressiveness" of the fifth braking). There is a lot of information on the J1939 bus in modern vehicles, generated by myriad of sensors in engines, transmissions, wheels, etc. I have no doubt that a very precise software algorithm can be written from that info to simulate braking and to generate the appropriate current flow to the pucks. We done something similar 20 years ago (well before the J1939 standard) but it is not simple or easy. The trucking industry doesn't fool around with any of that, they couple the two systems together with hoses so that whatever your foot is telling the truck brakes to do, the trailer instantly knows it too. That's why in this discussion I think the BluDot air over hydraulics system needs to be.mentioned too. It is probably the most proportional system between the truck and the trailer and uses trucking industry parts with decades of use and reliability but it is not as simple to install as the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 That's why in this discussion I think the BluDot air over hydraulics system needs to be.mentioned too. It is probably the most proportional system between the truck and the trailer and uses trucking industry parts with decades of use and reliability but it is not as simple to install as the others. When I built this trailer (the 2015) I had to decide if I was going to put on ABS and use the Tuscon system in both the truck and trailer, or stick with BluDot on just the trailer. It was a very difficult decision. In the end, I decided that since I had the Bludot I'd just put that on, knowing that I could upgrade to the Tuscon system if I keep this trailer, and wanted to do so (the Dexter/Morryde disc brake system have the tone rings in them). I pulled the BluDot off our 2012 because the person did not want air/hydraulic brakes. Instead they have electric/hydraulic. So the BD was "free". BUT, if I wanted the best possible system I'd probably do either a commercial trailer ABS adaptation, or a Tuscon system. The BD works flawlessly and is truly proportional. The two units totally act as one. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIBERNUT Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Hayes is the best electric for air trucks. But Blu-dot makes it look like you're in the stone age, it's that much better in response time. 2000 Volvo 635 A/S, N-14 Cummins"The Phoenix"'03 KA 38KSWB http://s918.photobucket.com/user/sibernut/library/?sort=6&page=1Furkids- Sibe's CH. Sedona & Tseika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 How much is a BluDot System on a two axle trailer? 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2013 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 You have to pick the axles, weights, brake types http://www.bludotinc.com/pdf-html/th-series.html then call for a price. I installed mine about 8 years ago and the kit was around $500 then, I'm sure it's more now. Obviously it only works with hydraulic brakes, shoe or disk, electrics need not apply. Incidentally most electric brakes can be replaced with hydraulic equivalents on the existing axles and the prices are reasonable for these. Identifying these variations is important, because it governs the size of hydraulic chambers and hydraulic pressure (1,500 psi for disks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEIFamily Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 If I didn't still have my Maxbrake controller I'd go with the Hayes. It is a little cheaper from Amazon with free shipping. Ended up ordering mine from etrailer, $249. and $6.99 shipping to Canada.. sucks the USA amazon won't ship it here After conversion, $330 CDN 2006 Volvo 670 singled long 2011 Heartland Sundance 3300CK 2006 Smart passion 2001 F350 DRW CREWCAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 For the BluDot, if you are running the large Dexter disc brakes you need dual actuators (2 master cylinders/brake cans). You plumb a split system - one actuator controls a single axle; the other actuator controls two axles. The reason is the fluid volume requirements of the large Dexters. To much to push with one actuator. So that increases the costs. But remember, this takes the place of the actuation system....it is not a "controller". Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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