docj Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 There is no question that a commercial diesel engine like an ISM will go hundreds of thousands of miles without pause, even in RV use. The smaller diesel engines like used in pickups - not so much. But those are not commonly found in motorhomes. Actually the "baby" of the Cummins family, the 6.7 L ISB, is rather common in lower end DPs these days and it basically is the pickup truck diesel. It's what powers the Tiffin RED, the Palazzo, and the Tuscany XTE. As you probably are aware, the ISB is, at best, a medium duty engine. Not that it won't have a mileage life far greater than most RVers will ever travel, but it's not in the same league as its big brothers, the ISM and ISX. Sandie & Joel 2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12 2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake systemWiFiRanger Ambassador Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbDan17 Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 RayIN-I appreciate the input. If money were no object and we could afford to order a new DP, the dual fill would be desirable. Since a used diesel is what our budget allows, dual fill will be a bonus for us if the original owner added it. It is good to know about, and I didn't know about it previously. docj-thanks for the information on the different diesel engines (ISM, ISX & ISB). This goes on the list of things to be sure of when looking at the DP's. Barbara & Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ticat900 Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Hello all- My DH and I have decided on a Class A motorhome for FT. Our next decision is Gas or Diesel. We have no idea what to look for, except we believe we can either buy a new Gas or a used Diesel (somewhere between $100-$150k). We know we want 1 1/2 baths, can do a Queen bed and want back up cameras. Beyond this, we don't know what other preferences are critical and what is considered nice to have. I'm sure this question has been asked before and you're all so knowledgeable. Is there a thread someone can point us to, or a book you would suggest so we can learn more before we buy? When we built oiur house 9 years ago, we realized there were a lot of things we should have thought a little more about. We would like to minimize this feeling as much as possible and take advantage of all your experience. Guidance please.... Barbara & Dan Diesel ,Side cooling,40 ft ,at least 400HP, dishwasher, Stacking washer and dryer, midroom level TV at least 40 inch,electric awnings, computer/office desk area electric flush toilit min 2 slides but should go four slides, electric front door lock and remote entry switch, Norcold basement freezer, slide out storage trays 3000 watt inverter, residential fridge ,15000K roof AC and with heat pumps,150 gallon dual fill system(both sides) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave O Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Diesel ,Side cooling,40 ft ,at least 400HP, dishwasher, Stacking washer and dryer, midroom level TV at least 40 inch,electric awnings, computer/office desk area electric flush toilit min 2 slides but should go four slides, electric front door lock and remote entry switch, Norcold basement freezer, slide out storage trays 3000 watt inverter, residential fridge ,15000K roof AC and with heat pumps,150 gallon dual fill system(both sides) Hi ticat900 If Barb and Dan get everything you recommend they will have a "state of the art" coach. If they can afford the $500+K and get this coach, after they live in it for 6 months they will find that they do not care for a lot of these features because they do not fit their lifestyles and desires. We have about 50% of the things you listed and it has taken us 20 years to decide we wanted this 50% (and the ability to afford it) and do NOT want anything to do with the remaining items. Dave O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docj Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Diesel ,Side cooling,40 ft ,at least 400HP, dishwasher, Stacking washer and dryer, midroom level TV at least 40 inch,electric awnings, computer/office desk area electric flush toilit min 2 slides but should go four slides, electric front door lock and remote entry switch, Norcold basement freezer, slide out storage trays 3000 watt inverter, residential fridge ,15000K roof AC and with heat pumps,150 gallon dual fill system(both sides) To each his own; I won't even go through your list to indicate which ones don't matter to me nor will I add all the others from my list that you haven't included. No two full-timers will have the same list just as no two full-timers have the same definition of full-timing. Nor is there any need for them to agree. Sandie & Joel 2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12 2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake systemWiFiRanger Ambassador Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 RayIN-I appreciate the input. If money were no object and we could afford to order a new DP, the dual fill would be desirable. Since a used diesel is what our budget allows, dual fill will be a bonus for us if the original owner added it. It is good to know about, and I didn't know about it previously. I am a firm believer that for most of us, budget limits make for a much happier fulltime lifestyle. Let me suggest that even though many in this tread go to lengths to convince you that gas powered RVs don't work, I believe that you should at least consider them as you look and realize that they are viable and that they can and do serve very well and many of them are doing so. Just as a Cadillac is nicer than a Chevy, the diesel has advantages over the gas chassis but it is also true that the Chevy gets one to work just as well and the gas motorhome gets one to the very same places and experiences as will the diesel but at far less cost. Diesels cost more to buy and more to maintain so make sure that one will fit into your budget. It is important to understand that with each year that any RV has been used the risk of it having been neglected or abused increases. While the modern diesel engines do last far longer than the gasoline ones, they do nothing at all to increase the lifespan of any of the appliances or interior items of the RV since those are exactly the same in RVs of similar quality. I am often accused of not liking diesels but that is not true as I would have preferred to have one when we traveled fulltime, but the money that we saved with our gasser is what bought our present home-base (debt free) and so I have no regrets that we "got by" with our gas powered RV. We saw the same places, had the same experiences and did all that we wished to do, but with a significantly smaller budget. I have watched far too many folks come on these forums very excited to be joining the fulltime ranks and then disappear in only a year or two because the enthusiasm of we who are here has lead them to expect things that are not reality. Be very careful. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medico Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Diesel ,Side cooling,40 ft ,at least 400HP, dishwasher, Stacking washer and dryer, midroom level TV at least 40 inch,electric awnings, computer/office desk area electric flush toilit min 2 slides but should go four slides, electric front door lock and remote entry switch, Norcold basement freezer, slide out storage trays 3000 watt inverter, residential fridge ,15000K roof AC and with heat pumps,150 gallon dual fill system(both sides) Since they are looking at used, a better choice in my opinion, everything on their list is easily obtainable for far less than the $500K you quoted. Our CC Magna has all that and more for 60% less than you quoted. Even for new, a very good coach with all that could be had for about $400K. I'm thinking Allegro Bus, Dutch Star, Tour just to name a few. GS Lifetime #822128658, FMCA #F431170 2012 Airstream Mercedes Interstate Extended Class B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthego Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 I am a firm believer that for most of us, budget limits make for a much happier fulltime lifestyle. Let me suggest that even though many in this tread go to lengths to convince you that gas powered RVs don't work, I believe that you should at least consider them as you look and realize that they are viable and that they can and do serve very well and many of them are doing so. Just as a Cadillac is nicer than a Chevy, the diesel has advantages over the gas chassis but it is also true that the Chevy gets one to work just as well and the gas motorhome gets one to the very same places and experiences as will the diesel but at far less cost. Diesels cost more to buy and more to maintain so make sure that one will fit into your budget. It is important to understand that with each year that any RV has been used the risk of it having been neglected or abused increases. While the modern diesel engines do last far longer than the gasoline ones, they do nothing at all to increase the lifespan of any of the appliances or interior items of the RV since those are exactly the same in RVs of similar quality. I am often accused of not liking diesels but that is not true as I would have preferred to have one when we traveled fulltime, but the money that we saved with our gasser is what bought our present home-base (debt free) and so I have no regrets that we "got by" with our gas powered RV. We saw the same places, had the same experiences and did all that we wished to do, but with a significantly smaller budget. I have watched far too many folks come on these forums very excited to be joining the fulltime ranks and then disappear in only a year or two because the enthusiasm of we who are here has lead them to expect things that are not reality. Be very careful. Kirk, you keep beating the drum for gas powered rv's but I don't think some can hear it. A lot on here preach DP or 5er's are the only way to go then they park them for months at a time. Guess we've been doing it wrong the last 3+ years in our gas powered Super C. We don't have a S&B or a home base. Travel safe everyone. Jeff Tina and Jeff Class of 2011 "RV there yet?" 2005 Gulfstream Endura and a 1987 Jeep Wrangler http://rvtravelswith...a.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ticat900 Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hi ticat900 If Barb and Dan get everything you recommend they will have a "state of the art" coach. If they can afford the $500+K and get this coach, after they live in it for 6 months they will find that they do not care for a lot of these features because they do not fit their lifestyles and desires. We have about 50% of the things you listed and it has taken us 20 years to decide we wanted this 50% (and the ability to afford it) and do NOT want anything to do with the remaining items. Dave O I have "ALL" of the above and more and I only paid $185K 3 years ago. You can buy what I have for under 185 very easily.I have no Idea where any of you KIA people are coming up with 500K. The Unit I describe is best suited for full timers or 6 month snow birders verses week end warriors If you LIVE in it how could u NOT like these features such as stack W/D or dishwasher or decent sized Tv or computer desk?? I say quit the opposite as one require,s these features if your full timing Original post of mine: ticat900, on 13 Dec 2014 - 08:53 AM, said: Diesel ,Side cooling,40 ft ,at least 400HP, dishwasher, Stacking washer and dryer, midroom level TV at least 40 inch,electric awnings, computer/office desk area electric flush toilit min 2 slides but should go four slides, electric front door lock and remote entry switch, Norcold basement freezer, slide out storage trays 3000 watt inverter, residential fridge ,15000K roof AC and with heat pumps,150 gallon dual fill system(both sides) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ticat900 Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Since they are looking at used, a better choice in my opinion, everything on their list is easily obtainable for far less than the $500K you quoted. Our CC Magna has all that and more for 60% less than you quoted. Even for new, a very good coach with all that could be had for about $400K. I'm thinking Allegro Bus, Dutch Star, Tour just to name a few. HELLO Medco Since Iam talking "used" not new and I have all the stuff I said that would be nice for them to have and I NEVER QUOTED anyone $500K??? I paid $185 for my Loaded with aquahot .sat Tv and everything else 2008 AB Three years ago with only 5300 miles on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ticat900 Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 My mother-in-law traded in her 2001 40' tag axle diesel pusher for a 2014 33' gas motorhome and could not be happier. As a widow, she no longer has her fix it person, and the old motorhome was needing one. She finds the ride good with the gas motorhome and does not miss the 8 air bags. All of the appliances are new and work as expected, no idiosyncrasies. The big surprise was she did not have to slow down taking Cajon Pass on I-15 towing her Malibu with the Ford engine, the old ones Cummins ISC would slow to 35 to 40mph on that climb towing the same car. the ISC was most likely 330 or 350HP that weighed about 32000++ lbs A 2014 33 ft has 362 HP and weighs about 18000 lbs hard to compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ticat900 Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hi Ray We have only used the passenger side fill 2 or 3 times on our DP's since we moved into one in 1997. It would be a "nice to have feature". but I don't think we should tell a new RV'er (which I don't think was your intention) that dual fills are a "must have" or show stopper if looking at a coach that doesn't have them. Dave O you get in a 40+ foot diesel and hooked to a toad and believe you me dual fills are a must have especially at busy fillup venus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ticat900 Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hi ticat900 If Barb and Dan get everything you recommend they will have a "state of the art" coach. If they can afford the $500+K and get this coach, after they live in it for 6 months they will find that they do not care for a lot of these features because they do not fit their lifestyles and desires. We have about 50% of the things you listed and it has taken us 20 years to decide we wanted this 50% (and the ability to afford it) and do NOT want anything to do with the remaining items. Dave O I have all the stuff I mentioned and even more stuff I never brought up such as aquahot heating system.I bought it used 3 years ago with 5300 miles on it for 185K.I will say u can buy what I have for the same or a lot less depending on year,model and mileage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimalberta Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Kirk is right. Everyday I see people with gas motorhomes who are enjoying life on the road just as much as those with DPs. I like the gassers in that they are so much simpler and easier and cheaper to maintain. <p>....JIM and LINDA......2001 American Eagle 40 '.towing a GMC Sierra 1500 4X4 with RZR in the rear. 1999 JEEP Cherokee that we tow as well. IT IS A CONTENTED MAN WHO CAN APPRECIATE THE SCENERY ALONG A DETOUR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ticat900 Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Kirk is right. Everyday I see people with gas motorhomes who are enjoying life on the road just as much as those with DPs. I like the gassers in that they are so much simpler and easier and cheaper to maintain. Once you drive a 40ft 425HP ISL IFS sparton chassis Diesel Pusher (just a example) you will never ever drive a gasser. The ride is non comparable,The quietness is unreal(motor at rear) The stability is fantastic but yes slightly more sophisticated than a gasser for sure. Gasser Cheaper to maintain? maybe a little in some cases.Some diesel pusher owners way way way over maintain. Do some stuff yourselves and in a more reasonable time frame than the old "BOOK" says and you can save a ton One example is a ISL425 can go 20000 miles on a oil change, Allison transmission oil 300K.lifetime coolant 600K etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 I think it important that Kirk mention the gasser in these threads. People need to focus on "choices", and being aware of all valid alternatives is important. One may decide on a DP in the end, but you need to consider the merits of all choices in order to make the correct choice for you. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave O Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 you get in a 40+ foot diesel and hooked to a toad and believe you me dual fills are a must have especially at busy fillup venus Hi ticat900 I drive a 40ft DP with toad and have for over 15 years of full time traveling. I have only used my passenger side fill 2 or 3 times and NEVER was in a must use it situation. I am not sure where you get your fuel, but must be really different not to have driver side fill capabilities. Dave O Living in DP full time since 1996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave O Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 I think it important that Kirk mention the gasser in these threads. People need to focus on "choices", and being aware of all valid alternatives is important. One may decide on a DP in the end, but you need to consider the merits of all choices in order to make the correct choice for you. Hi Jack et al I totally agree about a gasser being a valid consideration. We had a gasser as our first coach for ten years and used it extensively, 2 or 3 weekends a month and 7 or 8 extended trips of at least 2-8 weeks. It is a very viable choice, especially with the amenities available in the last few years. Dave O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbaraok Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 We've filled in a lot of places where the pump was on the passenger side - - usually these are not truck stops. Often it was because there was more room on the outside and the only way to enter was for the pumps to be on the passenger side. Nice to be able to fill from each side, though I'm not sure it would be something that would be a deal breaker. When we were looking there were not gassers available over 36' that had w/d hookups. That has changed but really limited above 36'. Lots of people travel in shorter coaches, just depends upon how much you take with you, etc. For me the w/d was a must have, so, at that time, it meant diesel. But we had already decided on diesel because of the size and the fact that we knew we were going to spend a lot of time in the west going up and over the Rockies, Sierras, Cascades, and the exhaust brake (at least for me) was a must have. Side radiator was a ++++ for us and was the mid entry. Barb Barb & Dave O'Keeffe 2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docj Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 If you LIVE in it how could u NOT like these features such as stack W/D or dishwasher or decent sized Tv or computer desk?? I say quit the opposite as one require,s these features if your full timing We've been fulltiming for 4 years so we're reasonably familiar with the lifestyle. For the two of us we see absolutely no need for a dishwasher and prefer to have the cabinet space it would take up. We are quite satisfied with our Splendide combo and wouldn't want to lose the extra space stacked w/d would consume. We both have laptops and tablets and see no reason to have a computer desk even though I use my laptop for work on a daily basis. I'm pointing this out just to demonstrate that what is important to one person or couple may not be at all of interest to another. We value our hydronic heating system and huge kitchen far more than we would a dishwasher. And I wouldn't trade my 12 liter CAT and stage compression (not exhaust) brake for anything! Sandie & Joel 2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12 2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake systemWiFiRanger Ambassador Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ticat900 Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 We've been fulltiming for 4 years so we're reasonably familiar with the lifestyle. For the two of us we see absolutely no need for a dishwasher and prefer to have the cabinet space it would take up. We are quite satisfied with our Splendide combo and wouldn't want to lose the extra space stacked w/d would consume. We both have laptops and tablets and see no reason to have a computer desk even though I use my laptop for work on a daily basis. I'm pointing this out just to demonstrate that what is important to one person or couple may not be at all of interest to another. We value our hydronic heating system and huge kitchen far more than we would a dishwasher. And I wouldn't trade my 12 liter CAT and stage compression (not exhaust) brake for anything! to coin a phrase you used to me To each his own; The guy asked about must haves etc and I pointed out full time must haves in my experienced MH opinion. The Dish washer is great and does not take up much room. I have owned and used several splendides and work reasonable well but the stacker system is much more usable and 3 times as fast.Simply put a much better set up especially full timing I too have a HUGE kitchen in my AB. I don't like lap tops so I use a 23 inch all in one with wireless keys etc which if you know anything about computers is like a very large laptop Also have a 17 inch LT when between rv resorts etc. Like you say to each their own and I figured this couple may be unaware of some of the great options that are available in a DP MH so I pointed out what I feel are great things to have especially if your going to make this your house which I do for 5.5 months of the year Another must have especially full timing Is NO Carpet use tile,hardwood,laminets.Vinyl planking and a Built in VAC system is a absolute must have I find about 96% of Rv ers that say you don't need this or that is because they don't have one in thiers. Hard to judge something you have never tried or owned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Once you drive a 40ft 425HP ISL IFS sparton chassis Diesel Pusher (just a example) you will never ever drive a gasser. This post makes my point very well. Assuming that he is correct, if you can't afford to buy and maintain a diesel pusher, then you should just forget about ever being a fulltime RVer! Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Ticat- everything you mention is your opinion though. You can fulltime in a 30 Class A gasser just fine, and fit into many more places than the 40DP can. Vacuum, carpet, washer/dryer, dishwasher, is all opinionated items that you like but aren't necessary for everybody. There is no right way or wrong way to full time. It's all dependant to the individual like's and dislikes. Alie & Jim + 8 paws 2017 DRV Memphis BART- 1998 Volvo 610 Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimalberta Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Last year I talked to a guy with a new 36 foot gas MH and I asked him about the ride and handling. He replied that it was easier to drive than his 2 previous DPs and just as comfortable. I didnt press the issue and ask him about if further but took it for what it is. And by the way my AE is a 40 ft DP 400 hp ISL spartan IFS with dual fill, dual AC, washer drier, air ride, etc etc. has it spoiled me? I doubt it. The only thing I'm not sure about is the ability of a gas engine to hold back a MH on a mountain descent. I have never driven one so have been curious about this one issue on gassers. My exhaust brake works ok but I am still into the service brakes on long grades so IMHO a 2 stage jake is a very nice feature on a 40 ft or more diesel pusher. <p>....JIM and LINDA......2001 American Eagle 40 '.towing a GMC Sierra 1500 4X4 with RZR in the rear. 1999 JEEP Cherokee that we tow as well. IT IS A CONTENTED MAN WHO CAN APPRECIATE THE SCENERY ALONG A DETOUR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave O Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 This post makes my point very well. Assuming that he is correct, if you can't afford to buy and maintain a diesel pusher, then you should just forget about ever being a fulltime RVer! Hi Kirk When you get your tongue out of your cheek you can consider like most of have already--ticat900 is a very opinionated full timer and seems incapable of recognizing there are MANY options for full timing including those that have been pointed out here. It is my sincere hope that the OP consider his suggestions as those from a SINGLE source and that they are by no means indicative of the recommendations of many of us full timers and extended timers on this chat board. Dave O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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