Motorhome must haves and nice to haves

[wa_desert_rat]

With Internet forums you can get a good idea of how well a coach has been treated by the posts and threads of a previous owner. For instance, the Foretravel forum (www.foreforums.com) is just one of several forums in which owners trade ideas, upgrades, fixes, etc. These forums often include a "classified" section where the members' motor homes come up for sale first to those who are on the forum (often with several people looking for new-to-them coaches of that specific brand).

 

Be noting who is selling and then searching for posts by that member you can get a good idea how they looked at the maintenance of their RV. This, along with knowledgeable owners willing to help you do an inspection (knowing what to look for) can significantly reduce your exposure to bad deals.

 

Just as a for-instance, one long-standing member had to sell (reluctantly) his 1995 DP for about $30,000. This member in long standing had been actively helping other owners learn their coaches and about the upgrades available. Whoever bought that motor home got an amazing deal, seriously. And that was just one of several impeccably kept RVs put up on that forum's classified listings. Often they show up with tens of thousands of dollars worth of upgrades at prices under $50,000.

 

WDR

[BarbDan17]

WDR-

 

That's a great tip! I'm on it. Thank you.

 

Barbara

[SWharton]

Just thought of something else if you buy used. Check the mfg date of the tires. If older than about 6 years you should buy new tires, they may look good, but there is probably dry rot. Most motorhomes never wear out their tires. New ones are needed because of age.

 

Also a TPMS system is really great.

[Zulu]

 

BTW-Zulu, I think I see a Personal Shopper job in your future. I had been going to PPL several times (since a lot of people recommend them) and was intrigued by the Inspire.

 

Actually, I was going to cut it from the list because I thought it was a CC Intrigue. Inspires were manufactured after National RV took over Country Coach and I don't think Inspires have a good a rep as the CC Allure, Intrigue, Magna, Affinity. Anyway, your best bet is to check with the brand's user group or at least someone who owns one.

[BarbDan17]

SWharton-yes, thank you, one thing we were aware of was aging tires. Thanks for putting it on here though, in case someone else is reading up and wasn't aware.

 

Zulu-If I remember right the Inspire was a 40' Genoa which had a "Fulltiming" use type and a pretty solid rating at 4 1/2 stars with 86 for Reliability, 89 for Value and a 93 for Highway Control. There were certainly notes in the RV Ratings Guide which the staff had commented on the changes in ownership and and issues addressed. Nonetheless, it looked like it would warrant a good look.

 

....but on the right track.

[Jimalberta]

BarbDan, if you want to salivate a bit and dream big...check out the very best of the best. Newell, Prevost and Bluebird Wanderlodge. Foretravel is up there as well. These are coaches that are so well built that they are pretty much timeless...you never know you might be able to find a used one in your price range.

[Roger & Karen]

Someone more knowledgeable will know more than I about this, but I remember Caterpillar engines having problems around 2008-2009. Correct me if I got this wrong.

 

Karen

[kb0zke]

Lots of good advice here. Go for a high quality used DP and you will be happier than if you buy a newer, lower-quality unit.

 

"...but the gas chassis have 4 wheel disk brakes..." Our 1993 Foretravel has four-wheel discs, and I don't think that was the first year for them.

 

Jake brake vs transmission retarder is quite a discussion. Each has advantages and disadvantages. Make sure that the coach you pick has one or the other.

 

I'd suggest that you make a short list of high quality DP coaches that have active owner forums, join them all, and ask questions. While you are doing that look at every DP you can find, no matter the price or condition. Look at the floor plans and pretend to live in them, doing the everyday tasks. You will soon find out which one will work for you and which ones won't. One you know what you want and need, look for those floor plans in your list of brands. For example, here are Foretravel floor plans and specs: http://www.beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/foretravel-past-brochures-specifications-and-manuals.html which will let you see most of the available floor plans.

 

The reason I suggest that you join various owner forums is that you can find real information on prospective coaches. Many owners of high end coaches are on their second or third (or more) coach of that brand, and someone on the forum will own one similar to what you are considering. Also, that's where many of the private sales will be listed. It is also possible that someone on the forum will actually know the specific coach you are considering.

[Smitty77_7]

Zulu's three representative listings are good ones from two fronts. From top to bottom as listed, they show from higher quality (Magna's are a good entry point into the higher end of the food chain of top quality coaches.) The Mountain Aire is a respected higher end of the mid level quality coaches. And the Inspires are at the mid level, possibly a notch below mid level, of the mid level quality coaches. (All very much debatable, but how I see the pecking order:)!

 

I don't know if he did this on purpose with these choices, but they also highlight a few things to consider when shopping:

 

-The Magna with the BIG BLOCK CAT, has very good Jake Compression braking assist. The larger displacement, equals higher braking HP. This is very desirable for any volume of mountain driving.

-The Magna at 42', gets you more of the underneath storage recovered from the penalty of having a tag. (And I would take, and did, smaller amounts of underneath basement storage to gain a tag, over, and over again!). That extra 2' of basement storage is great. And IMO, with very little impact by being 2' longer then a 40' coach. IMO, from 40-44' very little impact on coach ownership. At 45', many state laws kick in on driving licenses.

-The Mountain Aire is a nice coach. However the ISL400 of 2006 had a risk of bad 'wrist pins'. Possible this coach may not have a ISL400 at risk, but for sure worth getting the actual engine SN and checking with Cummins to see if it is in the range. If it is, then IMO that is a negotiation point on actual purchase price. And, even at a lower purchase price, I'd also negotiate in as long of an Extended Warranty as you can get. (Don't go shopping afterwards for a EW, always when working with a dealer, even consignment ones like PPL, bundle everything into the contract upfront. They have room, and even if they have to pass the EW onto you at their costs, they are 'moving a coach', and will sometimes do so...)

-The Inspire is as mentioned, rated good as an overall coach. May not have all of the 'goodies' of the higher up the food chain Country Coaches, but certainly a well built coach. However this coach highlights the caution of lower miles. At that low of miles for this year coach, you want to have extra due diligence on engine/trans/chassis inspections.

 

A repeat of my opinion to pick your Budget Price Point. Retain 'catch up baseline maintenance' and 'making it yours alterations' budget on top of this purchase point price point. And, also budget a healthy 'Contingency Fund'.

 

For example:

Price Budget range $100-125K

Baseline and Making it Yours range $10-15K

Contingency $15-20K

 

Total Budget $125-160K

 

And if you want Extended Warranty, toss in another $5-10K, and shop carefully after researching EW's very well...

 

Have fun, and a happy preparing for your future coach hunting!!!

Smitty

[Bill Joyce]

Someone more knowledgeable will know more than I about this, but I remember Caterpillar engines having problems around 2008-2009. Correct me if I got this wrong.

 

Karen

I think this was the era when Cat made a bunch of deals to sell the C9 for motorhomes, to undercut the Cummins ISL. It took a while to get the Allison transmissions to work with the C9, which got it a bad reputation. Plus, we have friends who caravanned with C9 motorhomes and the C9 did not pull the mountains as well as an ISL.

[BarbDan17]

You've all given us many things to think about and helping us to narrow down what exactly a "quality" built coach is. Between all of you and the RV Ratings Guide, we have a lot more to consider now.

 

It's turned cold here, and even had snow flurries this morning. Yuck. Headed out to Palm Springs tomorrow for a week of vacation and to avoid thinking about the winter coming to the Chicago suburbs.

 

If you have more ideas, please keep them coming. If I don't respond for a week, it's not that I'm ignoring you, I'll just catch up when we get back.

 

Safe travels, and thanks again for all your help!

 

Barbara & Dan

[Kirk W]

I was just made aware that there is now a gas chassis motorhome that is very close to 40', as in the Newmar Canyon Star that is 39' 11" long and rides on a 266" wheelbase chassis from Ford. And this baby does not have an add-on tag either.

 

Thank you, Mainuh!

[Zulu]

I was just made aware that there is now a gas chassis motorhome that is very close to 40', as in the Newmar Canyon Star that is 39' 11" long and rides on a 266" wheelbase chassis from Ford. And this baby does not have an add-on tag either.

 

Well, a Newmar Canyon Star may be as long as a "standard" Class A DP, but . . .

 

The 39' 4-slideout Newmar Canyon Stars are built on a Ford F-53 26,000 lb GVWR chassis. Suspension = leaf springs.

The Canyon Stars are powered by 362HP 6.8L Triton V10 with 457 ft/lbs of torque.

It looks like a new 2015 39' Canyon Star could be had for about $150k.

 

 

By comparison . . .

 

A 42' 4-slideout 2005 Country Coach Magna DP is built on a Dynomax 52,000 lb air bag chassis with Independent Front Suspension.

This Magna is powered with a 525HP CAT C-13 with 1650 ft/lbs torque.

This 2005 Magna is priced at $145k.

[Kirk W]

It looks like a new 2015 39' Canyon Star could be had for about $150k.

 

By comparison . . .

 

This 2005 Magna is priced at $145k.

While the pusher has a great ride, it also has appliances which are all of them now 10 years into an expected life of 10 to 20 years and so will probably begin to need replaced soon. And there is also the risk that comes with an engine and transmission that has 10 years of history that you know nothing of........... Consider the cost of replacing that engine. Boogity who used to be a regular could tell you about that as his Country Coach was only 5 years old when he bought it and his engine had to be replaced after just more than a year of owning it. That diesel engine will cost you several times what a gas one would and there will be no warranty.

 

My point here is not that a used coach is a bad choice, but simply that each one must make the choice that is right for themselves. Our new gas coach also had new furniture rather than used and a bed that had never been slept in. Life has no guarantees and each person must balance the pros and cons of their choices. It is important to realize that there are risks in every choice that we make.

 

One other thing to consider as you look at used choices. When you consider how old an RV you will consider you need to look at the age that RV will be as you near the end of the time which you expect to live in it. We started our adventure with new but were very surprised one day when we woke up to discover that our RV was not new, but 10 years old! It may not matter, but remember that if you buy an RV that is now 10 years old, it will be 20 years old much more quickly than you probably expect. Worse than that, you will be 10 years older also!

[Bill Joyce]

My mother-in-law traded in her 2001 40' tag axle diesel pusher for a 2014 33' gas motorhome and could not be happier. As a widow, she no longer has her fix it person, and the old motorhome was needing one. She finds the ride good with the gas motorhome and does not miss the 8 air bags. All of the appliances are new and work as expected, no idiosyncrasies. The big surprise was she did not have to slow down taking Cajon Pass on I-15 towing her Malibu with the Ford engine, the old ones Cummins ISC would slow to 35 to 40mph on that climb towing the same car.

[Barbaraok]

Bill,

If that had been a 39' gas coach would the same results have occurred on the pass? Bet not. We have friends with a 38' gasser, nice coach and on the flats she runs just fine. Climbing, not so much.

 

Kirk,

 

Even brand new engines, both gas and diesel can fail. Likelihood - not so much. After all millions of diesels drive millions of miles each year along our nations highway with very few blowing out. And there is a great deal of difference between a 10 yr old gas engine that has 130,000 miles on it and a 10 yr old diesel with the same mileage - - the diesel is just getting broken in.

 

The one caveat that I give is not to test drive a diesel unless you are serious about having one - the ride will sway you.

 

Barb

[Jack Mayer]

There is no question that a commercial diesel engine like an ISM will go hundreds of thousands of miles without pause, even in RV use. The smaller diesel engines like used in pickups - not so much. But those are not commonly found in motorhomes. Can the big commercial engines break? Of course - but the B50 on that engine(ISM) is 750K miles. On the larger engines it is 1M miles. In RV use the B50 is likely reduced, but not by much. The B50 is the mean time for a rebuild.

 

The new gas motorhomes - the small ones like the 2014/2015 WInnebago Vista, etc. in the 27-30' range ride quite well, and have plenty of power and excellent downhill performance. Put a 39' coach on that chassis and you are probably marginal. While nothing rides as good as a diesel pusher - including my HDT - it is a matter of degree. The smaller gas chassis that are newer are quite good. The larger gas chassis "can" suffer, in relative terms, in both power and handling. That is what I'm observing in my search for a small motorhome.

[Kirk W]

The one caveat that I give is not to test drive a diesel unless you are serious about having one - the ride will sway you.

I absolutely agree that there is no gas chassis with the ride of the diesel if it has air ride(unless you add an very expensive after market air suspension) and I also agree that they do have other advantages. But my experience was that our humble gas rig got us everywhere that you went even if it may have taken just a little bit longer and for a less money. When the time to get a home once more came, we had the money to buy that home debt free, which we would not have had if we had spent enough to purchase the RV you travel in. For us, it has proven to be the right choice. .

[Smitty77_7]

One of these where no right or wrong way - just choices...

 

We looked very hard at gas UFO's with the 8.1. The 39' I felt were both underpowered, and more important under braked. They also had very small CCC available. The 37' was just enough lighter to allow better power to weight ratios, and braking while still not as nice as a DP with Jake, was also doable. But, the quality of these coaches were not what we were looking for. I also looked real hard at the Newmar Mountain Aire in gas trim, as well as the last few years of the Dolphin with Workhorse and 8.1. The build qualities and material choices, were what I would put at upper Mid Tier for the Dolphin, and lower Upper Tier for the Mountain Aire. But when we compared them to our Must Have's and Nice to Have's - they scored overall so much lower than the DP's. We decided to focus our efforts on them. I did also have a spreadsheet laid out with my projection of overall ownership costs for a 10 year period, including residual value at the end. On that spreadsheet I also had a line item called 'Quality of Enjoyment' - my perception and opinion on how much we would enjoy the overall ownership experience of these coaches. With a 1 t 10 level. The Mountain Aire scored highest on both the overall costs (lowest maintenance), and was given a solid 5 on Quality of Enjoyment. But when I added in my opinion on residual value at the end of 10 years, the Top Tier DP's on our short list, all scored higher then the gas units.

 

Long winded way to say lots of angles on this, and doing what you 'think' will work best for you - is of course the way to go.

 

I will say that we covered the reality of Kirk's comment about aging appliances in our total budget planning, and yes on the spreadsheet too. We decided on a 'good/solid foundation' of a coach, and budgeted for upgrades to what we wanted. Including newer appliances as needed (We're adding a Dishwasher in January, I rebuilt the Norcold 1200 with the Amish Cooling Unit, we are contemplating between a higher quality propane counter top - but will most likely keep the OEM unit and get a countertop convection, etc. The interior 're-do' includes new recliners, new J-Lounge couch, new carpeting (The OEM is great quality and hardly worn - but DW dislikes the light beige color as it always shows dirt and dog hair:)!), etc. I mention all of this, as aging appliances and furniture are real factors. We understand that at the end of 10-15 years, our planned horizon for this adventure, we will not recoup these costs. But that is where the quality of enjoyment kicks in...

 

Best of luck for those hunting for a rig, and working out what is right for them:)!

Smitty

[Jimalberta]

Lots of good thoughts here. As you can see I have a DP but could have gone with a gas just as easily. I really like the Winnibego Adventurer for some reason...they always seem to have nice floor plans and Triple E's Ambassador is another nice gas coach. Just make sure you get a coach with dual pane windows.....makes a huge difference.

[BarbDan17]

All-

 

I had so much fun in Palm Springs I forgot to come back and visit this thread (or maybe it was the 45 miles of hiking we did that wore me out). I know we all have different ideas of what is great and what is unacceptable or unnecessary, but you've all posted many things which I wouldn't have known to check out. I know we've decided we will buy a motorhome, and from all the guidance, probably an older used diesel. This is nothing against 5th wheels, travel trailers, truck campers or anything else people choose to call home, it's just what we believe will work best for us when we go fulltime. I'll probably be "downsized" some time next year by my employer of 35 years, and by all the responses I've received we have a lot to consider when narrowing our search for our future home on wheels (and even suggestions of where to search).

 

Thank you all very much for all your great suggestions. There have been a ton of "views" to this thread, so I hope it is helping others out there too.

 

I hope you all enjoy the upcoming holidays. Safe travels.

 

Barbara and Dan

[Ray,IN]

A "like to have" feature we moved to our "must have" list was dual fuel fill points for engine fuel. Many times we pulled into a filling station and all the port-side fill pumps were full, impossible or very difficult to access, but the starboard-side fills were open or accessible. We did a 4,000 mile caravan last summer and the dual-fill was great, two RV's could fuel simultaionusly, which speeded up a fuel stop for 4-5 rigs.

[Dave O]

A "like to have" feature we moved to our "must have" list was dual fuel fill points for engine fuel. Many times we pulled into a filling station and all the port-side fill pumps were full, impossible or very difficult to access, but the starboard-side fills were open or accessible. We did a 4,000 mile caravan last summer and the dual-fill was great, two RV's could fuel simultaionusly, which speeded up a fuel stop for 4-5 rigs.

 

Hi Ray

 

We have only used the passenger side fill 2 or 3 times on our DP's since we moved into one in 1997. It would be a "nice to have feature". but I don't think we should tell a new RV'er (which I don't think was your intention) that dual fills are a "must have" or show stopper if looking at a coach that doesn't have them.

 

Dave O

[BarbDan17]

RayIN and Dave O, WOW I didn't even know there was such an option. Good to know. While we will probably be buying a used diesel, it will be great if the rig has this, but it won't be a deal breaker if it doesn't. On the other hand, if I win the lottery, I could order a new one with this option, now that I know about it.

 

Thanks, guys!

Barbara

[Ray,IN]

Barbdan17, we only made our dual-fill decision after participating in an Alaska Caravan, At the time we had a 40' 5er and dually truck. We would watch the MH's re-fuel while we waited our turn. I realize it was a seldom seen event, 4-5 MH's driving in at the same time to refuel when there was only one diesel island. All but one had to wait in line while the one in front pumped ~60-80G of fuel, and the othe side (passenger fill side) remained empty. We used it some in the CA maritimes caravan last summer too.

Since we are done participating in caravans, the dual-fill is used maybe 30% of the time, like Dave said. I would want this feature on the next MH, whether it was gas or diesel, but like you, it is not a deal-breaker. I was only stating OUR preferences.