skp51443 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Stupid forum software... If you'd like I can try getting the attachment to work here, mail it to me at: Stan at StanMiller.info (replace at with @) First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I got it to convert to an image, forum doesn't like spreadsheets. Source is my photobucket: http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/stan-qaz/Skp%20Forum/2014/power-draw_zps9b1fce61-1.png First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Thank you for posting this. George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 So based on the energy audit, what I have learned, and my budget, please tell if if this system makes sense. Trojan T-145- 260ah x 4ea ----- 520AH Morningstar TriStar MPPT 60 - room for expansion Solar World 275w PV - 2 ea ----- 550W -room for expansion Magnum MMS-1012 - 1000W PSW inverter, 20A passthru, 50A-4 stage charger, w/temp sensor Magnum Energy ME-ARC Inverter Remote SubPanel - room for expansion Thanks George George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 We had a slightly smaller setup, 4 x T-105 Trojans a Blue Sky MPPT controller, 4 x 100 watt Siemens panels and a 3000 watt inverter. The inverter got so big due to needing one big enough to run the microwave and other stuff at the same time and then only being a few bucks more than the 2000 that would have worked but the 3000 had more features and a very nice remote. It did a good job of providing the needed power during summer months as long as I kept my computer usage under control. Winter was a bit harder as the lower sun didn't get us full even from reduced usage. I could have added another $1000 in panels, 200 watts back then, but I decided a small generator was a better option since it also gave us the option of shaded parking in the hottest part of summer. Our winter use didn't include the RV furnace, that fan is a power hog and something low/no power is really needed unless you are way over provisioned for your summer needs. Grabbing high efficiency lights was also a big plus, today I'd shop carefully for LEDs that can tolerate trailer voltages, 12 volt home LEDs fed 14.8 volts from your solar array during charging will often fail early and often. We ruled out tilting panels after the first wind storm and trying to put them back down on a slick roof without breaking them or me. First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Yes, a gen set is in the plan for sure. And I too, have no desire to tilt the panels. At first I thought I would, but the up and down the ladder would get old quick. As for heat, we will use the propane big buddy or equivalent. I'm not sure if the 50A charger is enough on the Magnum MMS-1012 ? George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Look up the maximum safe charging amps on your batteries as a starter. You will usually want to charge at no more than C10 (bank capacity in amp hours divided by 10) so 520 div 10 is 52 amp hours of charging current. If you expand your bank then you could use a larger charger but the maximum amp rate time period usually doesn't last very long before the current starts ramping down. It might take you a bit longer to charge off your generator but probably not enough to be inconvenient. A good option for faster charging during the initial bulk phase when your bank is so large that the charger can't do a C10 charge is to plug in your smart converter too, that will boost the charge a good bit for the first few minutes and then you can disconnect the converter and let the charger finish the job. It bears watching though as with two chargers putting in amps you may go over the C10 rate, more than that is hard on the battery plates and will usually increase water use. You might risk C8 for a few minutes but you probably wouldn't want to try C5 at all on a flooded battery. With a smart converter you can set the charging voltage to three levels with the control switch to control the charging amps it puts out to get close to C10. We kept our converter and used it for charging in most boondocking situations, the inverter charger would do that but then we'd not be able to make AC power with it. Having the converter available let us run our fancy electronics on nice clean inverter power and not the generator that wasn't as clean or frequency stable while the converter charged. It also gave us the ability to string out a lot of extension cords to reach power or to use a 15 amp outlet when driveway boondocking with no risk of low voltage or tripping a breaker at 2 AM when you want a hot chocolate out of the microwave. The converter will keep your batteries happy while the inverter keeps your gear running and as long as your average power use is less than the converter and solar can provide the batteries stay near full. Doesn't even interrupt your DVR recording session if an idiot mows over your bright orange extension cord and you have to splice it back together to get power again. First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'm curious as to the choice of the 1000 watt inverter. Why did you pick that one? Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I thought this would be a good stepping stone and something that could be easily upgraded if our usage warrants it. At this point, we don't see allot of heavy AC usage, other than television and pc stuff. So my thought was to pull one 20A circuit into the 1012 (or a sub panel). I can adjust the charging parameters with the remote (if the 50A is enough), and remote could also be used if an inverter upgrade is done. George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 George, that will work but you might want to set everything up for a swap in of the 2000 or 2800. That means putting in the right wire size from that inverter to the battery bank, with enough slack to swap something else in. I'd put in a subpanel and move all the "normal" circuits over to it. No one says you have to use them on the inverter. My only "issue" is that many people want to use the microwave on inverter and that will not work. but as long as you don't mind starting the genset you will have no real issue. You will also be marginal on coffee making.....but there are ways around that. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Jack, Good point pulling all the normal circuits to the sub-panel. This past weekend, I identified all my ac circuits, so OK, I think my "plan" is coming together! Yes, I absolutely want to wire this correctly from the start. Thanks! George George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gell Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I told a couple people who asked, that they were not too late to join the party if they could catch up on the homework quickly (a week). Also, let me apologize up front and let you all know that I will be very busy for a few weeks moving and getting ready to hit the road as new RV'rs and first time full timers in October. I will try to stay on top of my duties as the appointed leader of this endeavor. I can tell from the submissions that we have a good group of participants. Most, if not all, appear to know more about solar than I do. I am sure we all share my appreciation to have Jack helping with the technical side of this. Please remember to direct any questions that are not specifically technical solar based, to me. I will find time to respond. Thanks, Jim 2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it? '05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel 2016 smart car We started full timing on December 1st 2014 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelinfool Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Good luck Jim, I just finished the same process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 We are a year behind you guys.... Good luck and no worries. George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscans Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 We had a slightly smaller setup, 4 x T-105 Trojans a Blue Sky MPPT controller, 4 x 100 watt Siemens panels and a 3000 watt inverter. The inverter got so big due to needing one big enough to run the microwave and other stuff at the same time and then only being a few bucks more than the 2000 that would have worked but the 3000 had more features and a very nice remote. It did a good job of providing the needed power during summer months as long as I kept my computer usage under control. Winter was a bit harder as the lower sun didn't get us full even from reduced usage. I could have added another $1000 in panels, 200 watts back then, but I decided a small generator was a better option since it also gave us the option of shaded parking in the hottest part of summer. Our winter use didn't include the RV furnace, that fan is a power hog and something low/no power is really needed unless you are way over provisioned for your summer needs. Grabbing high efficiency lights was also a big plus, today I'd shop carefully for LEDs that can tolerate trailer voltages, 12 volt home LEDs fed 14.8 volts from your solar array during charging will often fail early and often. We ruled out tilting panels after the first wind storm and trying to put them back down on a slick roof without breaking them or me. Stan, Many companies make LED's that have a voltage controller built in that allows them to work from 8-30 VDC (typically) I would ONLY use that type as LED's are very voltage sensitive. Good luck, Mike Happy Trails, Florida Mike EXPERTS AREN'T!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdandby Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I have been following this thread with great interest. It seemed that early on there was quite a bit of interest from many of us out west that could not make the trip to FL in January. I would like to propose that a similar Rally be considered for Arizona or New Mexico. Those interested could, should, would have to take the lead on planning and implementation. I do not wish to highjack this thread, so if there is interest in this idea, please PM me and I will start a new thread to progress this plan. Tom & Lois Dansby 2001 American Dream Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdandby Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I have been following this thread with great interest. It seemed that early on there was quite a bit of interest from many of us out west that could not make the trip to FL in January. I would like to propose that a similar Rally be considered for Arizona or New Mexico. Those interested could, should, would have to take the lead on planning and implementation. I do not wish to highjack this thread, so if there is interest in this idea, please PM me and I will start a new thread to progress this plan. Tom & Lois Dansby 2001 American Dream Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I know Jim is busy right now getting ready to hit the road, but to the rest of the Solar Rally gang, has everyone come up with a solar plan ? I did my audit, and have a basic plan. I'm going to start looking where to mount everything. I'm going to cut some card board the size of the solar panels (I think I'm getting) and lay them out on top of my RV roof and look for shade/mounting problems. George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 You need to do that layout as part of the plan. Measuring is fine. But you need to know the amount of panel space that is available, and if it is shaded or not. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Jack, I'm looking at sub panels, how is this? http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=72191-296-QO24L70RBCP&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3364890&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1 George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Is a four breaker box going to work for your layout? You really want the fridge on a breaker with nothing else so that leaves three circuits for the rest of your inverter powered stuff. First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I'm going to build a phased in approach to my solar system. I'm not sure how to approach this, the MMS1012 has a 20 amp AC transfer capability. I have one circuit that handles the entertainment equipment, which is 15amp, which will handle all I need for now. But I want to pull other circuits into the sub panel for future expansion. But if I can only have 20amp through the inverter, I guess there is no reason to pull the other circuits. Am I thinking right? George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I'd only pull the ones you need powered now to the sub panel but don't let the breaker size set your layout, the breaker is picked to protect the wire and may be many times what you really will have in the way of current. Protect the inverter input with a 20 amp breaker and put as many circuits on the output as you want as long as the actual load won't trip the inverter input 20 amp breaker. We had a 30 amp relay in our inverter so we put a 30 amp breaker in the main panel to feed it. We had four 15 amp breakers fed by the inverter but the real draw was never much over 20 amps and rarely that high. We didn't have a breaker on the inverter output, I'd go with Jack's recommendation there on your system. First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Reck Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Good point, I won't be using all circuits at once. I have to keep this mind. George and Ann Marie 2014 Cedar Creek 36CKTS, 640W of Solar 2012 Ram 3500, DRW, Cummins, Big Horn, Q20, Retrax Pro Retired US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Just be sure that you have enough circuit slots for the future. Do this one time,and do it for all your future needs. Nothing wrong with that box - I use them all the time for Access Point wiring (for wifi systems). I generally use a larger box for most inverter installs, though. But if you don't need more space than that it is fine. Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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