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Parks with leash rules

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As I have been reading some of the other threads in "RVing With Pets, one in particular provoked the following thoughts:

 

The thread discusses non-pet friendly or specific size/breed limited parks. Fortunately our Abby qualifies for the latter. Obviously we do not patronize the other since she is always with us. But we have been told by some RVing acquaintances about parks that once were but no longer are pet friendly. One would ask why?

 

I only would have to go back to my own experiences over the past three and a half years to come up with a possible explanation. Our park has designated dog walk areas off site (your space). All areas are a pick up immediately after your pet. Keep your pets quiet. Most importantly, all pets are required to be leased at all times for their safety and that of the guest and only off leash inside the RV or at the doggie park.

 

Because of folks at other locations that have chosen to ignore such simple rules, Abby and I have been viciously attacked three times and I have been knocked to the ground once by an over friendly setter that I didn't even see coming from behind. Thankfully I was only scratched up by that one. But Abby could have easily been killed had I not been able to scare off one attacker and pull Abby's neck and throat out of the attackers mouth before clamping down and violently shaking her.

 

All of these incidents were easily avoidable, especially when I was simply walking my dog down the park's roadways an not in anyone's yard (territory). In each case the attackers were outside unleashed and unsupervised by their owners. This creates not only a financial responsibility for the pet owner, but possibly that of the park. I see the leash rule regularly broken in every resort we go to and one cannot expect staff to be everywhere to police these offenders.

 

So the conclusion I come up with is that maybe the once pet friendly parks felt the financial risk was no longer worth extending this luxury (and privilege) to their guest. Its ashamed to possibly loose that over a few bad apples in the bushel.

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After being "attacked" by dogs - both leashed and free range - on multiple occasions I now carry pepper spray most of the time when walking Poppy. Fortunately I have not had to use it. But the next dog that tries to bite me or latches onto me is going to get it.

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While I do agree that at least part of the reason that some parks change policy is the fault of the pet owners, I am always amazed by the number of stories of attacks, often from people who I know and tend to believe. I am amazed because in all of our years of RV travels and 12 years full-time, I don't believe that we ever traveled without a dog of some kind and yet I can only recall one time that a dog actually attacked our pet and never myself. I can recall quite a number of near miss or threat type of incidents, but I must lead a charmed life to have had as few problems as I have. The most threatened I have personally felt was from a free roaming pit bull in a state park where I was host. I didn't get bitten, but it was only quick movement and luck that prevented it.

 

None of that changes my belief that every pet owner should be responsible about picking up droppings, using a leash at all times and also about good pet manners. We have been campground hosts several times and that has made us aware of the problem and as a result I always keep pet poop bags in my pocket which I offer to the other pet owners if I happen to see one doing his "job" just to remind the owner, even when walking in a park or staying where I pay for the site. I think that the share of pets that roam free is small, but still a problem and that includes cats as well as dogs.

 

Park management that make the choice are making a business decision in commercial parks and usually it is a matter of liability and convenience for public parks if they go pet free. It is the age old problem that a few bad eggs make it difficult for those who try to act and behave responsibly.

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"Park management that make the choice are making a business decision in commercial parks and usually it is a matter of liability and convenience for public parks if they go pet free. It is the age old problem that a few bad eggs, apples, make it difficult for those who try to act and behave responsibly." Thanks Kirk. Just look at all the laws we have that come about because of the eggs or apples made it difficult on the rest of us.

 

Safe Travels!

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I wish I could have some of your luck Kirk! LOL

 

Let me share the worst and most dangerous attack I (Abby and I) were faced with. First let me note that I'm always scanning the area where we are walking for loose animals that could be a foe:

 

On one of my many daily walks around the park with Abby in the park we stayed in regularly prior to where we now stay. Unknown to me, a Fiver just down the road from my site had taken in a rescue German Sheppard mix. As we rounded the bend and I'll note here walking on the opposite side of the roadway I suddenly heard a growl.

 

With that this 85 Lb plus Sheppard charged and when he hit the end of the 20' tether the 1.5' long auger the tether was attached to ripped out of the ground. Dragging both along behind him the charge was on. All this time the owners were sitting inside watching TV having put the dog outside unattended.

 

It wasn't until I began yelling as the Sheppard first took Abby's neck completely in its mouth for the kill and thank God I was able to literally rip her away and raise her above my head as I fought off the attack with my free hand that someone (one of the owners) ran out to fetch the attacking Sheppard. In the process of the attack Abby's neck was welted and bruise and I was bitten in the arm as the Sheppard attempted to still attack her. The owner's response was "He's still just a youngster and was only playing!" I'm sorry but an attack like that is not "playfulness" in my opinion.

 

In all honesty I never dreamed this dog could have attack being that he was in fact tied. Lesson learned! That may be part of why the park we now stay in does not allow pets to be tied or left outside unattended.

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We also do not allow unattended pets. If I see them tied outside without the owners present than I will contact the owners. Their nice "fido" that is harmless to the family may, in fact, be aggressive to other dogs or people. They are animals, and are not predictable.

 

In 13+ years fulltime I've personally been attacked twice - once seriously by a pit bull mix. And my dog has been attacked once. I've been charged probably less than 10 times. I love dogs, and we have one. But I now carry pepper spray most of the time when walking. And I have other means of defense, should they be necessary.

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Very interesting I think that I read recently that a little more then fifty percent of RVers travel with pets and most were dogs.

Edited by whj

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It wasn't until I began yelling as the Sheppard first took Abby's neck completely in its mouth for the kill and thank God I was able to literally rip her away and raise her above my head as I fought off the attack with my free hand that someone (one of the owners) ran out to fetch the attacking Sheppard. In the process of the attack Abby's neck was welted and bruise and I was bitten in the arm as the Sheppard attempted to still attack her.

 

You don't say what you did, but if it had been me, not only would I have let the managers of the RV park know about the attack, but I would also have called the police. Then I would have insisted that the owners of the attacking dog pay for both veterinary and doctors bills, and if they didn't, they would be taken to court.

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You don't say what you did, but if it had been me, not only would I have let the managers of the RV park know about the attack, but I would also have called the police. Then I would have insisted that the owners of the attacking dog pay for both veterinary and doctors bills, and if they didn't, they would be taken to court.

They were immediately asked to pack up and leave the park and told not to return by park management. Prepaid remaining time at their site was not refunded (seasonal guest). I felt that was ample and hopefully taught them a lesson.

 

It was not the dog's fault in my opinion and in calling the police (especially since he was a rescue dog) I hated to think of the consequences for him. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt that in his young mind he thought he was doing the right thing in "protecting" his area. He just had not been properly taught what his boundaries our by his human companions in my opinion.

 

Plus no medical or veterinary cost were incurred by me thankfully. The only lasting scare is that although a little tuffy herself when it comes to [non aggressive] play with other canine friends, she still does shy away from the larger breeds. Otherwise she playfully rolls and chases with the others.

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They were immediately asked to pack up and leave the park and told not to return by park management. Prepaid remaining time at their site was not refunded (seasonal guest). I felt that was ample and hopefully taught them a lesson.

 

It was not the dog's fault in my opinion and in calling the police (especially since he was a rescue dog) I hated to think of the consequences for him. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt that in his young mind he thought he was doing the right thing in "protecting" his area. He just had not been properly taught what his boundaries our by his human companions in my opinion.

 

Plus no medical or veterinary cost were incurred by me thankfully. The only lasting scare is that although a little tuffy herself when it comes to [non aggressive] play with other canine friends, she still does shy away from the larger breeds. Otherwise she playfully rolls and chases with the others.

 

Excellent way to handle it and the park did the right thing. I agree 110% on it's the owners who should be trained.

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Also be aware of dogs on "safety" collars. In my case, the very friendly lab did not attack, just wanted to play. But big dogs can hurt our small dogs, even if it is just playing. The owner was upset that their dog bothered us and didn't understand why the collar broke. Well... a safety collar is intended to break if enough pressure is placed on it (prevents the dog from choking to death if it was caught on something). It is not intended to be used when tying a large playful (or aggressive) dog. Unfortunately, it is hard to see the type of collar on a dog until you are real close, so we stay away from all dogs that are tied on a leash or rope. In one state park, an aggressive dog was tied up with enough rope to reach the common road. I told the owner what I thought of that.

 

 

 

I wish I could have some of your luck Kirk! LOL

 

Let me share the worst and most dangerous attack I (Abby and I) were faced with. First let me note that I'm always scanning the area where we are walking for loose animals that could be a foe:

 

On one of my many daily walks around the park with Abby in the park we stayed in regularly prior to where we now stay. Unknown to me, a Fiver just down the road from my site had taken in a rescue German Sheppard mix. As we rounded the bend and I'll note here walking on the opposite side of the roadway I suddenly heard a growl.

 

With that this 85 Lb plus Sheppard charged and when he hit the end of the 20' tether the 1.5' long auger the tether was attached to ripped out of the ground. Dragging both along behind him the charge was on. All this time the owners were sitting inside watching TV having put the dog outside unattended.

 

It wasn't until I began yelling as the Sheppard first took Abby's neck completely in its mouth for the kill and thank God I was able to literally rip her away and raise her above my head as I fought off the attack with my free hand that someone (one of the owners) ran out to fetch the attacking Sheppard. In the process of the attack Abby's neck was welted and bruise and I was bitten in the arm as the Sheppard attempted to still attack her. The owner's response was "He's still just a youngster and was only playing!" I'm sorry but an attack like that is not "playfulness" in my opinion.

 

In all honesty I never dreamed this dog could have attack being that he was in fact tied. Lesson learned! That may be part of why the park we now stay in does not allow pets to be tied or left outside unattended.

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Here's my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.

 

We are staying at a very nice RV Park in upstate, western NY for the season. We do have a small dog (16 pounds) that we rescued about 4 months ago. It seems almost all the other seasonal campers here have dogs that are well behaved and properly cared for and leashed with their mom's and dad's picking up after them.

 

Unfortunately most (if not all) of the weekend campers have 1, 2 or MORE dogs with them, many in the huge size range. These dogs seem to bark at everything, and everyone in many cases. My dog has recently discovered he has a bark, generally because of all the weekend dogs barking at him, and in some cases running at him. He was most likely abused by his previous owners (I will not call those people his parents) and other dogs badly. He is just starting to interact with other people and dogs in the park, but these noisy dogs seem to bring back that nature in him.

 

I find myself picking up other people's dogs leavings every Monday after they have left. The RV Park owners say they will not set up a dog run/play area simply because people will not pick up after their pets. I have never seen one of our seasonal people not picking up after their pets, so I can only assume they are speaking of our weekend guests. In fact all of our seasonal people carry multiple bags with them for this purpose. A couple of times early on after we adopted Diesel, I ran out of bags and every time another of our neighbors had a bag I could use. I have also supplied bags for some of them under similar circumstances.

 

I have to believe the only reason the RV Parks owners still allow these weekend dogs is purely financial because they probably would not come if their pets were not allowed.

 

I guess the last part of my rant will focus on the fact that these same weekenders allow their pre-teen kids to walk their huge dogs rather than doing it themselves. I have had to, on numerous occasions, pick Diesel up so that these barely contained dogs do not get to him. Even if they are friendly, they are so big that Diesel could get hurt by them because their walker's are not physically able to restrain them.

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You all know how I feel about dogs. Kenworth should have called the police on that shepherd. I have been attacked a number of times by smaller dogs without Jin present. Jin has been attacked 3 times on the street and another 3 itmes in dog parks. The fault is almost never the dogs fault. Mostly this is caused by owners who don't train or socialize their dogs.

 

As for picking up droppings. I've been in RV parks with dogruns and seen droppings outside the fence. I have always seen the problem as people who keep dogs as fixtures rather than as pets. If you're going to own a dog then train it and take care of it responsibly. As for that GSD that attacked your dog Kenworth I would have killed it.

 

Has anyone ever seen an RV park with a pets only section. I'm staying in one now. Nice park and I don't have to worry about loose dogs.

 

BTW for those of you who were following Jin's being unlawfully cited. The AZ Attorney General has filed a complaint against the city for causing personal harm to a service dog and it's handler. We are still trying to get the citation dismissed at a pre-trial hearing next week.

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I have to believe the only reason the RV Parks owners still allow these weekend dogs is purely financial because they probably would not come if their pets were not allowed.

As a dog owner I take great offense at those owner who are not responsible.It tends to reflect upon us all. There is never a good excuse for someone's dog bothering others, not even service dogs.

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BTW for those of you who were following Jin's being unlawfully cited. The AZ Attorney General has filed a complaint against the city for causing personal harm to a service dog and it's handler. We are still trying to get the citation dismissed at a pre-trial hearing next week.

How about sharing the complaint number or something as the complaints are public records but I was told that is needed to get information about what is happening there? What town was the complaint filed against and by which Attorney General's office location?

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Guest Pensauncola

 

I have been attacked a number of times by smaller dogs without Jin present. Jin has been attacked 3 times on the street and another 3 itmes in dog parks. The fault is almost never the dogs fault. Mostly this is caused by owners who don't train or socialize their dogs.

 

BTW for those of you who were following Jin's being unlawfully cited. The AZ Attorney General has filed a complaint against the city for causing personal harm to a service dog and it's handler. We are still trying to get the citation dismissed at a pre-trial hearing next week.

 

One must ask the question, why are you so often a victim? What is it about you and/or your animal that attracts attacks? Do you have a big bullseye on your back? Do you cover yourself in some offensive fragrance? Do you behave in some antagonistic way? Is the world out to get you?

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My dog (miniature schnauzer) and I was attacked by a rott about 20 years ago one block from home. We were in the street as there was no sidewalk and the rott can charging out from the garage. I keeping the dog away from mine, I was knocked down and injured my wrist. He came out and got the dog. It tried to lunge at me again and I kicked it id the ribs as hard as I could. He got mad over me kicking his dog. I wound up going to the ER and getting treatment for my wrist. 20 years later it still bothers me. The idiot would not pay for my ER treatment until I got a lawyer to send him a letter and he finally had his insurance company contact me and they paid for my treatment and the lawyers fees.

 

Since then I have been charged by dogs not on a leash. I generally carry a "walking" stick and I will use if on your loose dog. The rules for leashes apply to everyone, There is no excuse for letting any dog out with out a leash.

 

Ken

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Has anyone ever seen an RV park with a pets only section. I'm staying in one now. Nice park and I don't have to worry about loose dogs.

I stayed for a month this summer in one and really enjoyed it. I didn't have to worry about RVers that didn't like pets and those in our section understood pets and dogs and knew how to deal with situations. I hope more parks will adopt this policy.

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How about sharing the complaint number or something as the complaints are public records but I was told that is needed to get information about what is happening there? What town was the complaint filed against and by which Attorney General's office location?

 

Sure Kirk. I have nothing to hide. First there is a pre-trial conference this Tues on the off lead charge + misdemeanor criminal charges for belligerence. We have evidence that shows we were legally in the park and are presenting other evidence showing Jin's work and training history and documentation that supports my need for a service dog along with docs that explain how I am disabled. We are hoping to get the misdemeanor charges dismissed.

 

The second charge filed was filed by the AZ AG against the city of Glendale AZ on 25 Sept for Personal Harm. Anyone who want's the number I'll PM it to you, Kirk it's already in your box. A letter that came from the AGs office says they offer meditation (Auto correct first put in medication then meditationj lol). They are two separate complaints.

 

One must ask the question, why are you so often a victim? What is it about you and/or your animal that attracts attacks? Do you have a big bullseye on your back? Do you cover yourself in some offensive fragrance? Do you behave in some antagonistic way? Is the world out to get you?

Yes I walk around armed to the teeth wearing offensive pheronomes and make sounds that annoy people and dogs. :D

 

No the world it not out to get me and I don't believe in conspiracy theory.

 

Still it is a good question and there is an answer as to why it happens. Start with it's not just me and it is common problem among service dog owners. Videos on Youtube, news stories, and sound bytes show just how common it is. SD teams have studies this for years and the SD community does have some answers. Unfortunately there are no real studies on why this happens only those done by a few people who have an interest and wanted an answer. I wonder if I could get a grant to study the problem considering how common it is.

 

There are two general types of attacks on service dog teams. Those against the handler and those against the dog and the attacks can be dogs against service dogs or people against service dog and those are more brutal that dog on dog. Attacks by dogs against service dogs happen for several reasons. Part of the answer seems to be the service dogs training. In general SDs are alpha dogs that have the motivation and drive to work. You don't want a dog that will tuck it's tail in service. Jin is an alpha dominant. I have seen in the packs he is a member of he is the leader and that includes being among other alpha dominant dogs. Out of harness his behavior is the same as any other dog that is alpha dominant (AD) With the other dogs we live and associate with he is the one who breaks up arguments, keeps order, etc. When in harness he becomes alpha submissive something that is trained. I t means that Jin will ignore everything that is going on around him except for what is in the scope of of his work. He remains focused on me, the street, noises, people petting him... geez if you set a bomb off next to him he would be vaporized :lol: but he wouldn't jump. A service dog cannot react to anything. It is something we all strive for in training even if it;s not 100%. Jin is around a 95%+ . The thought is to other dogs on the street and SD, Jin in this case, appears to be an omega submissive because of his training. However he is still giving off alpha signals. Confrusing to other and that is to be answered with a challenge.

 

What causes or triggers the attacks? IN specific I don't know. A few weeks ago my friend Andee and her dog were in Walmart when her dog was mauled by a dog wearing an SD vest. Andee said the other dog was pulling at it's lead when they saw them around the store and when the dog came withing striking distance it attacked. Another occasion a gal I know was in an airport waiting to get a flight and a K-9 on patrol got near her dog than when berserk tying to get her dog. She said it took two cops to drag the dog away. Maybe this will say it better. I've been in Home Depot when a guy with Rover on a leash walked by and the dog was straining to get at Jin, growling and barking at the same time. That dog should not have been in public.

 

How do I deal with the problem? By training Jin to not react to other dogs. If we are in a park/dogpark or someplace off lead Jin even has a commnand/warning signal that another dogs is cloising on him. I just tell him incoming.

 

 

followed by some examples of what does happen all too often

 

 

The problem is serious enough that there is even a

 

The second type of attacks on service and guide dogs are by people. At one dog park in Alameda CA there is a guy who brings his dog and use it to harass other dogs. I'm not going to post any vids on service dogs being attacked but go search youtube and guess what you'll find? It happens all the time and all too often the police are the ones who kill the dogs. I'm not pointing fingers or saying why because that is a topic in itself. I shall say it makes may disabled people distrustful of the police because the po0lice in general don't know the law and refuse to look at it when you try to show it to them. That brings me to my citation. I was targeted by the city. That too is an attack, not physical, but an attack nonetheless and it was seriuous enough to cause me personal harm and is a violation of state law. .

 

Discrimination against people with service dogs is on the rise. With youtube and media it is seen all the time now especially against veterans. My filing against the city involves civil rights and discrimination. There are going to be more service dogs on the streets and I would say most of them in the hands of vets for PTSD and physical assistance like Jin does for me. Disabled people very rarely have what it takes to respond to this. Some dogs shall be very well trained and others not, which is another issue entirely. So long as we have service dogs on the street and people walking around with poorly trained dogs on leashes or not it is going to be a problem. So how do you know if a dog is a potential problem? Look for a dog (autocorrect replace 'gdo' with 'god') that is pulling on it's leash or is at it's maximum length and taut. Watch for stiff dogs.

A well behaved dogs is relaxed. Watch faces and ears. Ears forward means interest, back means suspicious and not sure. Walso wath the lips and eyes. Curling lips and wide open eyes also says be careful.

 

I hope that answers your question because it is certainly something I can live without. Just remember that the last attack on Jin came out of the blue on a city street.

 

 

I stayed for a month this summer in one and really enjoyed it. I didn't have to worry about RVers that didn't like pets and those in our section understood pets and dogs and knew how to deal with situations. I hope more parks will adopt this policy.

 

I like the idea too. Last time I stayed in a park with pets only section I stayed in the pets section. Too many problems with people who didn't clean up properly and untrained and poorly trained dogs including those that barked all the time. The park I'm in now has a pets only section and I'm in the no pets section. A lot fewer problems. I've posted a flyer on the bulletin board and one on the tree beside my trailer explaining about Jin.

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Very interesting I think that I read recently that a little more then fifty percent of RVers travel with pets and most were dogs.

I was in camping world in Vacaville CA today and a little more than fifty percent of the shoppers were walking or carrying their dogs around the store. It just cracks me up. I've seen less dogs walking around in Petsmart.......

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We have a long-haired German Shepherd Dog who travels with us everywhere. We keep her on leash where required, and under voice control where not. I can't count the number of timmes (over 10) where she has been atrtacked by small dogs. Her reaction is to knock them off either by shaking or using her pawsand knocking them down and scolding them as if they were her puppies, i.e. putting her mouth over them. Although she could easily close her jaws on them, she won't. I've been bitten several times by these little dogs when they just won't give up. I'm actually more afraid of these little dogs than bigger dogs. People have told me I have no right walking her along paths as she is so big and dangerous, while their little dogs are loose and running and growling at her. Although not a therapy dog, she has been into hospitals and rehabilitation centers and is received very well. It bothers me that campgrounds put a size restriction, but realize other bigger dogs may have caused problems. If my dog is required to be on a leash, everyone's dogs should also be. Too many have told me tht it doesn' apply to small dogs.

 

Sorry to get on my soap box, but it does bother me.

Edited by elliott-maine

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We have a long-haired German Shepherd Dog who travels with us everywhere. We keep her on leash where required, and under voice control where not. I can't count the number of timmes (over 10) where she has been atrtacked by small dogs. Her reaction is to knock them off either by shaking or using her pawsand knocking them down and scolding them as if they were her puppies, i.e. putting her mouth over them. Although she could easily close her jaws on them, she won't. I've been bitten several times by these little dogs when they just won't give up. I'm actually more afraid of these little dogs than bigger dogs. People have told me I have no right walking her along paths as she is so big and dangerous, while their little dogs are loose and running and growling at her. Although not a therapy dog, she has been into hospitals and rehabilitation centers and is received very well. It bothers me that campgrounds put a size restriction, but realize other bigger dogs may have caused problems. If my dog is required to be on a leash, everyone's dogs should also be. Too many have told me tht it doesn' apply to small dogs.

 

Sorry to get on my soap box, but it does bother me.

Not a soap box, rather good input to the thread IMO. I would say that for the "non-aggressive" breed dogs, it really has nothing to do with size. The unruliness and aggressiveness of these biters and attackers are what endanger others and spoil it for the rest of us. Unless the path/trail is signed and designated for a certain breed(s) and size limitation, you have every right to walk your Shepperd there as do I and my Boston Terrier. Either only become "dangerous" when they have proven themselves as such!

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I like the idea of separate sections, too. It means that neighbor's will be more understanding if they get yappers at when passing our unit and that we will be more likely to get together with our pets and let them get to know each other. One thing that drives me crazy is DH leaving the door wide open when he is grilling or working on a project outside. Our dog is well socialized. He has never run out and charged anyone, but that doesn't mean he never sill. It also means that his 4-legged campground buddies are happy to come into our RV with dirty feet and sopping wet coats and visit.

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