National Public WiFi plan

[Cloud 9]

I must agree w/ Doug, those of us who live in these areas are limited to say the least. However, the thought of such a federally regulated system gives me pause.

 

Carl

[Kirk W]

However, the thought of such a federally regulated system gives me pause.

It really isn't at all practical at this time. WiFi is a signal with very limited distance range just like cell signals.

 

It is also worth noting that all of those stories are dated February, 2013.

[Kmill]

Actually I've read about a national grid comprised of satellite and dirigibles (in rural areas). My opinion is that private enterprise is getting in the way of universal access to our wireless internet by overcharging. Just try to run wireless on the road. If your on a budget it is tuff. As a business man I would love to park in a BLM area and have access from the Big Horns to South Texas. I'm all for it.

[Kirk W]

I'm all for it.

Me too, but I'd suggest that you not hold your breath!

[skp51443]

A big problem with WiFi is that the frequencies 2.4 and 5 gHz are so high that they have fairly short ranges and little penetration of solid objects. That means you need a lot of base stations and there you hit the second problem, on 2.4 gHz you only have three non-overlapping channels, 5 gHz is better on the channel count but the range is worse.

 

Doing a wireless Internet, not WiFi which is a small range of equipment/specifications/frequencies, there are possibilities, fewer than there were before we started selling frequencies to the highest bidder. It could be done but it will be expensive and getting decent speeds will be difficult either in the boonies at longer ranges or in the city with lots of users. We'd be a lot smarter to look to Korea and Japan for how to do an Internet, they have got it done right.

[dmcb]

Speeds are important but actually getting the internet is even more so.

I can remember the first internet service we had in Michigan was dial up.

You could start the process of getting on the internet, go make a bag of microwave popcorn, eat the popcorn and often still not even be on the net.

Once on the net I could then talk about speeds to use it.

When you have experience this kind of "service", speed becomes a relative thing.

And yes that actually happened.

[jamtracy]

Speeds are important but actually getting the internet is even more so.

I can remember the first internet service we had in Michigan was dial up.

You could start the process of getting on the internet, go make a bag of microwave popcorn, eat the popcorn and often still not even be on the net.

Once on the net I could then talk about speeds to use it.

When you have experience this kind of "service", speed becomes a relative thing.

And yes that actually happened.

Awe dmcb, I use to do this with coffee. Start the dial up and go get a cup of coffee. We thought wow this is how it is and got used to it. Then cable internet came along where we were living and we got on the pilot program for it. I still remember that awesome sound of the dial up starting!!!

[Kirk W]

I am so old that I can remember when I moved up to high speed internet the first time by getting a 2400 baud modem!

 

Consider how slow it would be with one of those today, with all of the graphics on today's website???

[skp51443]

2400 was a big jump, I used to hand-build 110-300 baud modems for friends so we could chat back and forth with our homebrew computers.

 

Sadly today speed is pretty important, not so much because of what you want to do on-line but due to the tracking, advertisements and other nonsense folks are building into their sites on the assumption that everyone has a fast connection.

[Pieere]

Some of the time I think this W 8.1 computer has an antique modem! I wonder if this Wifi is sending messages by carrier pigeon!

[Michael Sroufe]

Kmill Posted: "Actually I've read about a national grid comprised of satellite and dirigibles (in rural areas)."

 

Dirigibles or Aerostats wouldn't work in the wind.

 

Michael

[dmcb]

The anchor the weather ones. Why wouldn't that work for the internet dirigible?

[Pete Kildow]

Were in the same boat. Centurylink and we pay for phone line and DSL. But if our Government would allow it. Our local electric Co-OP could be selling us 20+ Faster than my 1.5 DSL through there power grid. Our Co-Op is set up for it now, as they use it to read our meters now. But the people in power do not want it working. As these company's that hold us hostage to there sub-par service does not want anything to get in there way of making a great profit off a product that is not worth it.

My wife's Uncle is president of our local Power Co-OP, and I asked him Christmas when we would be seeing this?? His answer was tomorrow if the people in charge would sign one paper. But phone company's and others selling service has 10 lobbyist there padding the pockets to keep it from the country. The Co-Op does supply our schools with internet and it blows anything we can get out of the water. My brother in law is a Principle at one of schools. His PC is so fast its unreal, I used my cell there on there first day with it. It would load pages so fast it was a blur. Where my service through the phone takes a minute to load the same page. But then again, our cell service also sucks.

[Michael Sroufe]

The anchor the weather ones. Why wouldn't that work for the internet dirigible?

 

We spent a month in the Florida Keys several years ago. Whenever the wind blew at a pretty good rate, the Aerostat spy balloon was not up in the air. Locals said that was usually the case.

[dmcb]

Someone thinks it will work.

http://www.google.com/loon/faq/

[Kirk W]

We’re looking for partners who can help us iterate on the technology and connect with local communities. Please fill out this form, and we’ll be in touch if there is an opportunity to work together.

So when do you plan to begin investing?

[skp51443]

That Loon link discusses balloons at 60,000 to 90,000 feet, don't think they are going to be tethered at that height, the cable would be trimming wings off commercial air liners at around 30,000 feet! They keep on station by trying to find a bit of wind moving the direction they want to go, no good wind and they have to be replaced by another balloon to fill in the spot they drifted out of.

 

Using 2.4 and 5 gHz frequencies at that altitude and trying to cover a 40 KM circle is going to prove interesting, wet weather is going to really chop the range as water absorbs either frequency quite well. Antenna size on the user devices is going to be interesting too, I've seen several designs for the same frequencies at that range for ground based clear-air links and they are a bit bulky.

 

Still it will be interesting to watch, nt sure that I'd put money into it though.

 

What really makes sense to me is a ground based system over fiber for all fixed users and 5 gHz WiFi tagged on top of that (because of the number of open channels) for mobile devices. It will take a lot of investment but when you get done you have a fiber network that can pass a lot of info and that is going to be needed for HD TV and a lot of other technologies, getting that amount of data wireless isn't really possible unless they take some frequencies away from somebody.

[RVRoadie]

GlobeTel Communications Corp. (AMEX:GTE) was the last company to go bust with this idea (including some of my money). I also lost some money when Paul Allen (Microsoft co-founder) was going to deliver internet through the power gird.

 

The technology was developed by Sanswire Networks. This article appeared in USA Today a few years ago.

 

No more for me.

[Michael Sroufe]

Tom and Rocki posted:"I also lost some money when Paul Allen (Microsoft co-founder) was going to deliver internet through the power gird."

 

When I was at the U of Oregon in 1960 the FM signal of the campus radio station was delivered to dorms and other campus buildings through the University's power grid which was generated on campus and separate from that of Eugene and the surrounding area. Was Allen's attempt of too large a scale or were there technicalities that couldn't be overcome?

 

And there is this quote from earlier in this thread from Pete K. that makes it sound like it could be done if only....

 

"Were in the same boat. Centurylink and we pay for phone line and DSL. But if our Government would allow it. Our local electric Co-OP could be selling us 20+ Faster than my 1.5 DSL through there power grid. Our Co-Op is set up for it now, as they use it to read our meters now. But the people in power do not want it working. As these company's that hold us hostage to there sub-par service does not want anything to get in there way of making a great profit off a product that is not worth it.

My wife's Uncle is president of our local Power Co-OP, and I asked him Christmas when we would be seeing this?? His answer was tomorrow if the people in charge would sign one paper. But phone company's and others selling service has 10 lobbyist there padding the pockets to keep it from the country. The Co-Op does supply our schools with internet and it blows anything we can get out of the water. My brother in law is a Principle at one of schools. His PC is so fast its unreal, I used my cell there on there first day with it. It would load pages so fast it was a blur. Where my service through the phone takes a minute to load the same page. But then again, our cell service also sucks."

 

Is it just more of the powers that be running everything for grand profit or are there technicalities that make it physically very difficult?

 

Michael

[dmcb]

An interesting subject of which I know nothing.

I posted that link because I thought someone at least thought it possible. No they will not be tethered at that height but it is explained how they stay in position.

I am old but not old fashioned.

I don't discount something because I don't see how it can work. I don't believe all I see and read either.

Would I invest. Not likely but I might risk a modest amount if it was easy and I met the people. I play the slots modestly also so it would just be another form of entertainment as long I didn't invest enough it would hurt to lose.

Many people have become wealthy by investing a small amount in a new idea.

Some questioned RV when he invested in an electric car but it looks like that worked out pretty well the last I looked.

But far be it from me to say it won't work. People have been proven wrong too many times over the years for me to do that.

[skp51443]

RV didn't just invest in an electric car he sorted out the many companies in the electric car business and found one that was actually interested in building an electric car. The other companies pretty much were looking for government subsidies and suckers, most, once they had bled both dry they are either bankrupt or in line for more handouts.

 

The key is to do as RV did, sorting through the dross for the few and far between nuggets of gold. This same thing applies to solar companies, how many went bust once the founders sucked out millions, battery companies too. It can be done but you are playing a game where the crooks and schemers have a pretty good advantage.

 

I'm putting this WiFi one in the iffy category until a lot more technical details are discussed. For now it looks like so many of the presentations I did to the government when my company was looking for more work. I feel that made me an expert on milking the system with partial information and rosy futures (we never lied) as we won several contracts, milked the heck out of them for years and actually accomplished little other than getting me a paycheck and the boss a yacht.

 

The balloons may well work, it wouldn't be that expensive to make a few, launch them and see, you could probably get a grant to do that. There are lots of uses for something like this even if it just carries a high resolution camera or a radio or TV system. Where I get a bit less convinced is the WiFi side of the issue, if they could get more and longer ranged frequencies it would be a no-brainer but in the current 2.4 band with 3 frequencies and 5 band with 9, in the US and possibly a couple more elsewhere range and interference are key and unaddressed issues.

[dmcb]

I agree with your outlook Stan.

I am not sold and I don't know as much as you about the subject. Its just over the years I have seen many things work that many thought impossible or at least very difficult.

Extracting oil might be one of them. Remember when we were thought to be using the last and now it looks like we will be able to satisfy our needs and may export some.

Who would have thought that 20 years ago?

In any event if this does work I doubt I will be around to see it.

[desertranger]

There is sort of a national WiFi plan in place now. Boingo.com. I got a year of it free with my tablet and here at north ranch I see it on the wifi list along with Tengo Internet. I haven't messed with it yet but will be hear for awhile so will get around to it.

[bodar]

I am one of those optimists that believes all things happen for a reason. I also try to be non judgmental.

 

Right now I am thinking about all the money that local, state and federal agencies spend supplying cellphones to those who are needy.

 

Perhaps if the WiFi was free we would save some money and everyone could be happier.

[travelrider73]

Deleting my post (for now). I guess Stanley thinks I may have violated TOS with what I originally wrote. I don't know - just being safe.