David-and-Cheryl

25 minutes ago, rkbrown04 said:

That’s all I needed.   I thought the GVWR and the associated GCVR had a factor in the difference.   I don’t have a tow vehicle over 10k so I guess B it will be.   Thank you for the quick response.

 

R

The confusion is understandable. If your motorhome was less than 26,000 lbs and you planned to tow anything then the combined weight WOULD make a difference. Good luck on your test!

1 hour ago, rkbrown04 said:

I have a scheduled driving test in my large Class A RV. The RV has GVWR 44,600 and a 15,000 hitch with a GCWR of 59,600.   I have taken my written test, applied for a non-CDL class A license.    Question is am I required to take my toad to the skills test?

If you want a Class A exempt license, you’ll have to take your test with a toad or trailer with a GVWR over 10,000 pounds. 

But do you really plan to tow anything that large? If not, you only need a Class B exempt license. Although that class allows you to tow a vehicle up to 10,000 lbs GVWR, it’s the same license that you’ll need to drive your motorhome even without a toad. Therefore your MH alone is sufficient for your test. 

Note that the weight rating of your hitch is irrelevant. It’s what you actually tow with it that matters. 

You might want to refer back to the table linked from the original post (also here) to help make this more clear. 

David

If you are establishing domicile in Florida—which you must do before you can get a Florida drivers license or register your vehicles there—then you will first need a PHYSICAL address in the state, not just a mail forwarding PO Box. Escapees can provide you with that if you use their mail forwarding service. I don’t know about the others. That physical address will then be the one on your Florida drivers license. 
 

If you are not establishing domicile in Florida (not just mail forwarding there), you can’t get a Florida DL. 
 

See the two links that Kirk posted earlier for background. You might also find this blog post that we did a few years ago helpful: http://landmarkadventures.net/two-texans-become-floridians-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-my-domicile/. If you’re an Escapees member, Member Services can also give you some guidance. Their phone number is 936-327-8873. 

1 hour ago, Papa Jim said:

I’m from New York and I had to get the “R” endorsement for my license to drive an RV over 26 K pounds. This included a road test but didn’t require a written test. If I move to Texas will my R endorsement translate into a non commercial class A or do I need to start all over?

In general, Texas will honor a license from another state with similar privileges. They don’t check into how the license is granted. So when you move to Texas you should be able to exchange your NY license for a Class A exempt without additional testing. 

1 hour ago, jblo said:

Lot of info here, and tried to figure out what I actually need for my 35400 GVWR (45400 GCVWR) Tiffin MH + Jeep at 5500GVWR.

Currently have the Class A that I got when I had fiver and 450.  The way I read the table is an A allows for more GCVWR than does the B.  I have a letter from the DPS saying I am legal with the A for the above.  

What I am asking is--does an A cover more weight than the B?  Am I actually ok with the A?

Got an appt 1/2 with DPS for the required old age 'in person' renewal. Wondering about what will the process be?

Thanks.

Joe

Your Class A license also covers you for vehicles that would require a Class B (as well as, of course, Class C vehicles). 
 

David

On 12/20/2022 at 3:53 PM, Liz_P said:

Lastly "What is the new ITD Program?" indicates that you’ll need to complete the new Impact Texas Drivers (ITD) Program, about the dangers of distracted driving. I did complete the course, however, the Angleton TDPS office did not ask for this, and when I indicated I had this certificate, they said that this is not required if you currently hold a valid Texas drivers license. 

 

Thanks for sharing your experience, Liz. Based on your feedback I've updated the original post to clarify that the ITD program is required only for those who don't already hold a Texas driver's license.

David

19 minutes ago, Blues said:

You have it backwards.  He's not driving a motorhome and towing a GMC Sierra; he's driving a GMC Sierra and towing a fifth-wheel trailer.

To the OP:  I'm in Texas and currently have Progressive on my motorhome, and also had Progressive about ten years ago, and they've never asked what class of driver's license I have.  In fact, none of the insurance companies that have insured my moho in Texas have ever asked.

Ah, right you are! I misread his original post. Apologies--the confusion was mine. The OP will in fact need a Class A exempt license as he said, since the combination is over 26k pounds. I will go back and remove the last paragraph of my first reply to avoid anyone getting mixed up. Thanks for straightening me out.

8 hours ago, TXiceman said:

I think there is some confusion there.  Add the GVWR of the truck and the GVWR of the trailer.  A total of 26,001# or more will push you to a class A or a Class B driver's license.  If you are towing less than 10,000# you go to a class B.  This is usually the case with a larger class A motor home and a tow car.  If you are towing over 10,000# you need a class A License.

Ken

The confusion was that I somehow read "motorhome" when the original question clearly says "fifth wheel". Oops. That's what I get for replying before I was fully caffeinated in the morning!

Given that, what you wrote, Ken, is almost correct, except that there's no way he would need a Class B license. If his fifth wheel's GVWR is 10,000 pounds or less (highly unlikely), he needs just a regular Class C. Same for if the fifth wheel's GVWR is more than 10,000 pounds but the combined GVWRs total 26,000 pounds or less--only a Class C is needed.

However, since he stated that his combination exceeds 26,000 pounds GVWR, his trailer's GVWR is almost certainly over 10,000 pounds--so he needs a Class A Exempt. See the table that appears in my original post to show which class of license is needed in all cases:

It's a three-step analysis:

1. First look at the GVWR of just the powered vehicle (tow vehicle or motorhome), not the combined GVWR. 
2. Then look at the GVWR of the vehicle being towed, if any.
3. Then look at the combined GVWR of both vehicles.

9 hours ago, Av8r said:

I’m a little confused with getting the Driver’s License, license plates and insurance. As I understand the process, step one is to get my Texas Class C Driver’s License, correct?

Once I have my Driver’s License, or perhaps simultaneously, I should be able to get my license plates for my GMC Sierra, correct?

I will need a Class A Driver’s License as the combined weight is over 26,000 pounds. Will Texas issue license plates for my Jayco North Point fifth wheel even though I don’t have a Class A Driver’s License?

My insurance is through Progressive. Will my insurance issue in Texas after I have my Driver’s License and plates, even though I won’t have my Class A Driver’s License for probably a month or so after changing my domicile to Texas?

I changed my domicile the other way, from Texas to Florida, but I lived in Texas for most of my pre-RVing life, so I'm fairly sure that what I'm going to tell you is correct. Someone else who has actually moved to Texas may want to chime in too.

If Texas is like Florida and most other states, you'll need some proof of residency before you can get a Texas driver's license, license plates, etc. Your auto insurance can actually be part of that proof. You can change your Progressive auto insurance address first without any proof of residency. Auto insurance is based on where the vehicle is "garaged", not the owner's state of domicile.

You can get your Texas plates for both your RV and your Sierra at the same time you get your driver's license (not sure if they're physically in the same office, but neither is a prerequisite for the other). The Class A license is not required to get your plates. Texas will issue you a Class C license based on your Florida driver's license. Then at some point in the future, you'll need to test for the appropriate license for your RV.

2 hours ago, edenjw said:

David and Cheryl,

    I just completed my Class B driving skills test today.  Thank you so much for this discussion.  Without it, I would have had a much more difficult time having all the required documents and paperwork.   I did my driving test at the TDPS office on Gessner in Houston.  It was a busy site, but with the appointment system it was do-able.  Actually, driving 30 miles each way in Houston traffic was more of a challenge than the testing process.   

Thanks again,

Jon Eden

Thanks, Jon, I'm glad it was helpful! Congratulations on passing your test!

David Goldstein

On 3/29/2021 at 4:44 PM, Pdocar said:

CLASS A: Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle or vehicles towed exceeds 10,000 pounds;

The gross combined weight rating is decided by the manufacturer. The GCWR of an F450 is 43,300 lbs per Ford Motor Company. The Gross vehicle weight rating of an F450 is 14,000 lbs. per Ford Motor Company. Even if your trailer is rated at 12,000 lbs., or less, you would still need a class A license.

Well, that's an interesting anomaly you've spotted. Here is the exact language from the Texas Transportation Code:

Sec. 521.081.  CLASS A LICENSE.  A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1)  a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or
(2)  a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.

At first glance, your interpretation seems almost right: you would need a Class A license for a combination only if at least one of the vehicles has a GCWR over 26,000 lbs and the GVWR of the towed vehicle is more than 10,000 lbs. (Note that a towed vehicle with a 10,000 lb or less GVWR would not cause the combination to need a Class A license, even if the GCWR of the tow vehicle is 26,001 lbs or more, because both conditions must be met.)

The statute refers to "a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating...". However, that's a meaningless phrase. A combination (meaning two or more vehicles) isn't given a GCWR, or any ratings at all for that matter. Specs like this are given only to an individual vehicle, like the 43,300 lbs for the F-450. 

So the question is, which of these is the phrase actually intended to mean?

1. "a combination of vehicles that has a total gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more..." (this is how we've been interpreting it), OR
2. "a combination of vehicles in which any one of the vehicles has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more..."

The second option would actually cast a wider net because it would apply to more vehicles. Take a hypothetical combination of a 2021 Ford F-250 XLT 4x4 with the 6.7L turbodiesel, SRW, and 3.31 gear ratio. That truck has a 30,000 lb. GCWR for conventional towing, and a GVWR of around 10,000 lbs. depending on the cab style. We'll have that truck tow a hypothetical trailer with a GVWR of 10,001 lbs.

Under the first interpretation of the statute, this combination can be driven with a Class C license, because the total of the GVWRs for the two vehicles is less than 26,001 pounds. But under the second interpretation of the statute, this combination requires a Class A license, because the GCWR of the truck is more than 26,001 pounds and the trailer's GVWR is over 10,000 pounds.

I'll have to do more research to find out which of these interpretations the DPS actually uses. If I can find out anything further, I'll post it here.

EDIT: Section 522.003(17) of the Texas Transportation Code defines "gross combination weight rating" as "the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination or articulated vehicle or, if the manufacturer has not specified a value, the sum of the gross vehicle weight rating of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit or units and any load on a towed unit." Since there is no manufacturer-specified GCWR for the types of combinations we usually drive (a truck from one manufacturer towing a trailer from another), the second part of the definition would apply: the sum of the GVWR of the tow vehicle plus the GVW (actual, not rated) of the trailer. This gives us yet a third interpretation of the rule! We now have less clarity, not more.

THE ANSWER: through a former Texas law enforcement officer, I was able to get an answer to this question from a Department of Public Safety license & weight trooper with the DPS Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Service. For purposes of determining the needed license class, Texas DPS interprets Sec. 521.081(2) to mean the total of the Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings (GVWRs) of all the vehicles in a combination. If that total is 26,001 pounds or more and any towed vehicle in the combination has a GVWR more than 10,000 pounds, a Class A license is required. (This is interpretation #1 above, and is the same as how most everyone has understood the statute.) This makes sense because each vehicle's GVWR is determined by its manufacturer and is generally placarded somewhere on the vehicle, making it easy for a LEO to obtain during a traffic stop.

The DPS trooper added that they will sometimes look up the Gross Combined Weight Rating of the towing vehicle--unlike the GVWR, the GCWR is generally not readily available on the vehicle itself--but only if they suspect that the combination actually exceeds the towing vehicle's GCWR.

11 minutes ago, Randy Reecer said:

My wife and I recently bought our first class a diesel pusher. We are Texas residents and know we need to upgrade our license to the class b non cdl. We have made our appointments for both the written and skills test. Amarillo for the written, Childress for the skills. These tests are in May. All of that being said, we are having a hard time finding exactly what we need to study for this  test. The DPS web site is just about worthless for a guide. We have filled out our application and have both diligently studied the Texas Drivers license handbook, but no where in that handbook does it mention the non CDL info. I’ve looked at the cdl stuff but honestly we are,lost and need some help. So what do we study???

Randy, if you go to the very first post in this long forum thread, back on page 1, you'll find a detailed answer to that question and many more.

David

14 hours ago, Mike83 said:

I know I need it.  I have a dually with a GVWR of 14,000 and a fifth wheel with a GVWR of 16750.  That will put me at 30750 well over the 26000 limit of a class C license.  So I know I need a class A, I am just confused about the appropriate written tests to take before I am eligible for the driving test.  The DPS office said I only needed the special requirements test and not the combination vehicle test. After looking at other posts on here I am pretty sure I do as other have said they had to.  I have also seen some post saying I am required to take the air brake test from section 5.  I was able to schedule another written test for tomorrow and will knock out the combination vehicle test hopefully and then hopefully make it through the driving test.  Thanks to this site I have read through a bunch of post and saw I have to take the IMPACT training as well.  Just hope they're a no more surprises for tomorrow.  I am also a little confused on what will be required of me for the pre trip inspection.  A lot of people here are saying the examiner looks over your truck and trailer rather than what I was expecting where I would have to explain everything to them.I guess I will find out tomorrow.  

Mike, unfortunately many of the DPS offices just aren't very well informed about the Class A and B Exempt written testing requirements. It sounds like you got it straightened out though. 

As far as I know, you do NOT need to take the Air Brakes test, even if your rig did have air brakes.

And on the pre-drive inspection, all the examiner will do is check your vehicle to make sure it is legal to drive--basically the same things that are checked on the annual Texas safety inspection. I think I have a mostly complete list in the original post. You do NOT have to explain any of it or have any special safety equipment on board--that's only for CDL applicants.

When you've done the Impact training, would you mind posting here a description of what it was, how long it took you to complete, and any problems you had with taking it? That's a brand-new requirement and I haven't heard from anyone yet who has done it.

Good luck on your driving test!

David

I have just updated the main post with a bunch of changes over the last year or so. Among them:

• Added information on the new REAL ID document requirements for proving citizenship, identity, Social Security registration, residency, and vehicle ownership;
• Added information on the new Improving Texas Drivers (ITD) course requirement;
• Updated the reference to Form DL-43, which has been superseded by by Form DL-14A;
• Updated the duration of license validity (now eight years instead of six)
• Updated the license renewal fee (now $32)
• Checked all links and fixed where needed.

I've also turned this post into a new article for the Escapees blog. It should be published sometime in the next month or two.

36 minutes ago, Second Chance said:

That's not quite true since everything is based on the state where you are licensed - not the state where you are driving. 

Rob

Well, yes and no. It's true that in a state that requires special licensing, they have to honor the requirements of the state where you're licensed. So, for instance, if you're driving in NM (which requires special licensing), you're legal if you have the proper license for the state where you're licensed. That could be a Class A or B Exempt license from Texas, or a regular passenger vehicle license from Florida (which has no special license requirements). I'm now licensed in Florida, and with my normal passenger vehicle license I can legally drive my rig anywhere in the country, even though it would require a Class A license in Texas and some other states.

However, the reverse is not true. If you're driving in a state that does not require special licensing, I'm pretty confident that you won't get a citation for not being properly licensed in your home state (assuming of course that you have a valid license for a regular passenger vehicle). You're not violating the laws of that state, and a state law enforcement officer probably does not have the authority to cite you for violating the laws of any other state. For that matter, they probably wouldn't even know (or care) that your home state requires a special license.

3 hours ago, Second Chance said:

No - not in Texas. You are not licensed to drive the rig until you have passed the driving portion of the test, they take your class C license from you, and hand you a (paper) temporary while you wait for your license in the mail.

Rob

That is the correct legal answer. However, because there is no non-CDL "learner's permit" that I'm aware of in Texas, there's a catch-22: it's hard to pass the driving test if you've never driven your rig, but how do you practice for the test without the appropriate license?

The fact is, most people end up doing some driving illegally because that's the only way to gain some experience. For safety's sake, if you do that, I'd have your licensed husband in the passenger seat and actively acting as an "instructor". The chances of you getting stopped and cited are small (but not zero) as long as you don't break any laws or do anything unsafe. But again, in Texas, you would still be driving illegally without a license.

However, since you're going on a road trip, you can easily do your practice in a state that doesn't require a special class of license to drive your particular rig. I don't know your route, but according to http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml, Utah, Arizona and Idaho have no special licensing requirements.

8 hours ago, Snickdriver said:

Took the Class B Exempt Skills (driving) test yesterday, 5-19-20 at the Commercial Driver's License facility in Kilgore, (East) TX.  Very small facility.  Counted 4 people total, working when I was there.  Lady that did my test couldn't have been more nice.  She walked me through the airbrake test.  Then she had me back up 20' in a straight line.  Then she said we were just going on a drive to make sure I knew how to handle the large vehicle.  Down a 2 lane county road, right turn, onto the interstate for 1 mile, exit back to the facility.  Done.  If you've already been driving your Class A, and are safe and don't break any laws, you won't have a problem.  

Ask me any questions, while I still have it fresh in my mind!  OP David did great job on the post and all of his material was really helpful.  Thanks again David!

Congratulations on passing your test! I'm glad it was anticlimactic.  Thanks for the shout-out; I'm glad the post was helpful!

David

25 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

Yes, if the motorhome + towed vehicle is greater than 10K and the towed vehicle is greater than 10K, then a Class A is required.  So if you have a Class A with a GWR of 25K towing something that weighed 10,001 lbs, then Class A would be required.  If towed vehicle was 8K, instead, just a regular Class C.

Just to clarify for the OP...I think what BarbaraOK is getting at here is that you need only a Class C license if the GVWR of your motorhome is 26k pounds or less, unless your car's GVWR is over 10k pounds (unlikely) and the total GVWR of the combination is more than 26k pounds. That would be a very rare situation in an RV unless your toad is something like a 3/4 ton pickup truck. So her point, which is a good one, is that you may not need to get a Class A Exempt license at all. Remember that the class of motorhome you're driving has no bearing on the class of license you need. Yes, that's confusing.

When I answered your question, I was assuming that you had already determined that you actually do need a Class A or Class B Exempt license. That would likely be because your motorhome has a GVWR over 26,000 pounds.If that's the case, and your car's GVWR is 10k pounds or less, then you need only a Class B Exempt license. And because you'd need the same class of license if you weren't towing a car at all, there's no reason to take your toad to the driving test, and therefore no need to take the Combinations written test.

To put it a different way: you'll need your toad for the driving test and you'll have to take the Combinations written test only if you need a Class A Exempt license. And you need the Class A Exempt only if your car's GVWR exceeds 10k pounds, which it probably doesn't.

If you haven't already, see the table in the first post in this thread, which will help to make the "license class" requirements more clear.

21 minutes ago, Snickdriver said:

..."In addition, if your rig is a combination--for example, a truck towing a trailer--several members have reported that the Texas CDL Combinations Test is now also required, effective April 18, 2018."

Does the 'Combinations Test requirement' apply to me if I'm driving a Class A Motorhome towing a car?

Thanks!

I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure the answer would be yes. A "combination vehicle" is any vehicle with two separate parts - the power unit and the trailer. So a MH towing a car would fit the definition. 

27 minutes ago, RLCASC said:

My son has had his CDL for many years and has driven the testing vehicles for others to the DPS for their driving/road test. He said not unusual for maximum tire pressure to be required on commercial vehicles.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

18 hours ago, Blues said:

What do you mean "placarded maximum pressure"?  The max pressure I was referring to is the one written on the tire itself.  What's on the placard in a car, like on the door jamb, is the recommended pressure.  I once had an employee at a tire place argue with me about it on my car; he insisted the the tires should be filled to the max pressure listed on the tire, even when I pointed out the label on the door jamb giving the recommended pressures.

Poor choice of words on my part. I meant the recommended pressure on the door jamb. My conjecture was that examiners are used to looking at that for cars, and in the absence of it for RVs (I don't know about motorhomes, but most trailers don't have one), they would look at the tire's max pressure rating, which is often higher.

Regardless, it's surprising to me that the CDL test requires inflation to the maximum pressure on the tire, assuming that's true. I would think that most large commercial vehicles would use the tire manufacturer's load/inflation tables (like you were), rather than just inflating to the maximum on the tire--and that examiners would be aware of that fact. But wonders never cease, especially when it comes to governmental agencies.  

On 3/12/2020 at 2:54 PM, RLCASC said:

Scheduled my road/ driving test at Wichita Falls DPS.
Tester walked out looked at the right front tire and ask if I had a tire gauge.

I stated I did, and was asked to check tire pressure. I had tire pressures set to Michelin RV tire chart standards. Tester stated that tire pressures had to be set at Max tire pressure of 110 lbs or driving test couldn’t continue.

Once I pressured up all 6 tires to 110, Tester did safety check, had me do the standard air brake test, then proceeded with road test. Did straight line backing and about 4 mile of highway driving with two entrance and two exit ramps as part of test. 

After reading many of the posts, I didn’t remember anyone mentioning tire air pressure as a possible requisite. Would have had that base covered before leaving home. 

Passed test so all is well. 

Thanks for sharing your experience. That's the first time I've ever heard of an examiner checking tire pressures. Very interesting. I guess s/he thought the tire in question looked underinflated? Just curious, what pressure were you running the tires at?

47 minutes ago, Blues said:

I'll never know where so many people have gotten the idea that the max pressure on the tire is what the tire should be inflated to.  Do they not understand what the word "maximum" means? 

It's one thing to do it to one's own tires or even to recommend it to others, but entirely another to make people taking a driving test do it to their tires.  I'm not sure I'd comply because it's just wrong, and the tester needs to get some "guidance" on this.

I'd have to agree with that. I've never heard of a DPS examiner checking tire pressures.

Perhaps the examiner thought the tire looked under inflated and therefore had a safety concern, which is why s/he asked the OP to check the pressure. And their experience is probably limited to automobiles, on which you usually inflate to the placarded maximum pressure. But Blues is right--RVs are different, and you would hope the examiners giving Class A and B tests are aware of this fact.

11 hours ago, rm.w/aview said:

The reciprocity of driver's license categories was touched on briefly here, after all it is essentially a thread on testing, but please to allow a question. If a retired Class A CDL owner chooses to relocate in Texas from another state, his Class A CDL is reciprocal and no testing is required on his part to obtain the driver's license needed to legally drive his 40K plus pound RV set up, correct?

According to this article, which I found in a quick Google search, as long as your out-of-state CDL has not expired, you can transfer it to Texas without re-taking either the skills or driving test. So you'd end up with a Texas Class A CDL, which would allow you to drive a Class A RV for non-commercial purposes even if you don't maintain your CDL medical certification. (I have no reason to doubt the article's accuracy, but I'd still suggest verifying it with a Texas DPS office.)

Note that a license "transfer" is different from "reciprocity" (which refers to honoring an out-of-state license for vehicle operations in the state), but the concept is similar.

If your out-of-state CDL has expired, then it's like starting from scratch, and you DO have to take the tests in Texas. But I suspect that's true for all out-of-state license transfers, not just CDLs.

David

1 hour ago, MrTuxTravels said:

The trailer company told me they had someone rent a trailer for a real CDL in the past.  They said they just gave the person the registration white paper which they said they would do for me.  DPS customer service said I can do this today but they would not provide confirmation to me in writing and could not point to anything on the website specific to using a trailer in place of an RV.   They told me to just point to the requirements on the website that the trailer meets the requirements and have the registration documents but they recommended I go in person to talk to the local DPS before I spend the money renting the trailer.

Yeah, I'd definitely have that conversation with someone at the DPS office where you're going to take the test before renting the trailer. Let us know what happens.