oldjohnt

Just to reinforce Kirk's EXCELLENT ADVICE, some time back I started a thread on here because my FURNACE wasn't lighting. I did some troubleshooting and found the HV ignitor coil itself was throwing a good HV spark (I used a little jumper cable) so I cleaned and adjusted (I could NOT see any cracks or carbon traces) the ignitor tip and gap and relocated it (the relocation seemed to really help the most) and she started working again, but shortly thereafter she stopped working again. Just to be prepared, I had gone to Flea Bay and purchased a whole new assembly, tip with ceramic insulator and new HV cable and installed it AND ITS WORKED PERFECT EVER SINCE. Moral of the story, an ignitor tip or the cable or insulator may look fine to the eye but still be bad. However I took it you ALREADY have a new ignitor ?????????? Hmmmmmmmm check the gap and location maybe and insure the HV coil itself is throwing a spark (maybe a jumper wire to 1/8 to metal if possible to jury rig such on your unit??) They make that snap snap snap sound when firing, yours do that ??? but you can see the little sparky with your eye if she's firing. Were all trying our best to save you buying a new board lol John T

Sure, the board may be bad but that's like one of the more expensive fixes !!! Talk to Dinosaur Electronics if you can still talk to them about troubleshooting or one of their replacement units. FWIW Its been my experience that iffffffffffffff there's sufficient voltage getting TO the board via the switch and T stat and any limit switches and ifffffffffffffffff the boards flat ribbon connection is good n clean making good contact so the board gets sufficient voltage (Low voltage there can cause a problem) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and iffffffffffff the HV ignitor coil is good and throwing a good spark itself (test by unhooking wire to ceramic ignitor tip (if possible on your unit) and use a jumper wire with end 1/8 or so from metal to see if it is sparking),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BUT it lights intermittently: Possibilities are the ceramic ignitor tip itself (may have small cracks or carbon traces) is bad and spark energy gets shorted. I see you replaced it (I assume the tip right?) so if its good and placed at the proper distance, check that its fairly critical ????? it may be the cable to it or the HV ignitor coil The ceramic ignitor tip isn't located at the right distance or location Faulty HV ignitor cable Faulty board due to a solder break or crack or its electronics I have spent time on the phone with Dinosaur electronics (The President himself once and other times tech support) and I was surprised how bad low voltage or a resistive connection can cause problems. I would take a good hard look at the ignitor tip and proper gap distance and run any manual troubleshooting tips and insure the HV ignitor coil itself is throwing a good spark and use an accurate volt meter to insure good board voltage NOTE Hot water heaters are NOT my cup o tea so I hope the other gents can add more possibilities and troubleshooting tips.. Once you have good voltage to the board and the HV coil and ignitor tip and its gap distance are all good, it may be the boards electronics or a bad solder joint or a crack BUT BEYOND THAT IM OUT TO LUNCH LOL PS the fact it lights manually tells me the switch and T stat and any limits are good and the gas valve is opening, so I'm left with a board or HV ignitor coil or the tip or gap etc. PS I'm not sure if your heater and board and ignitor (separate or onboard the regular board???) is configured or will even allow you to do the things I posted above ????????? if not I meant well lol Best I have to offer, see what the experts have to say John T

Congrats Eddie and thanks for the feedback. Give a try to gently clean/polish up the boards flat copper looking contact strips like I mentioned before, and if that don't fix it or Toms good advice above regarding a possible bad solder joint (looks like you now obviously have POWER GETTING TO THE BOARD via the thermal and t stat we worried about previously) a new board may be in the works (Ive had good luck with Dinosaur replacement boards) , I try to carry a spare myself. You're getting there fer sure. John T

Thanks coachmac, It would be fun to visit you and Kirk. We base around Austin in Nov and December or so before heading to Florida but we may travel to Coleman Texas sometime which is in your direction. I wont know any final plans until SWMBO and my daughter tell me LOL John T

Will do when the time comes, Thanks John T

Good evening Kirk, Actually (unfortunately) the vast majority of my work when I was an RV dealer was, like you, in troubleshooting and repair all the never ending issues encountered in dealing in USED RV's. It was up to meeeeeeeeeee to diagnose troubleshoot and repair a unit before offering it for retail. As an Electrical Engineer I was more comfortable dealing with electrical versus plumbing issues, but had to learn the hard way from experience how to fix the darn things grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I was thinking back and actually its been 47+ years as a continuous RV owner and/or dealer, but these high dollar sleek units are beyond my ability, glad I'm retired now lol I will be visiting your great State in October, it would be a pleasure to visit, chit chat and sparky talk with you. Fun talkin with you as always. Best wishes and God Bless Kirk John T

Mac, in my experience RV 12 VDC loads (lights, fans, furnace, water heater, fridge, water pumps, 12 volt appliances etc etc) are fed from the 12 VDC distribution panel (served by the house battery) via fused branch circuits in order to provide overcurrent protection to prevent a fire, so yes Id expect a fuse in the circuit and that's the first place I look when there's an electrical problem. As the diagram above indicates, that 12 VDC source (likely fuse protected) has to jump through some hoops (thermals, t stats, switches etc) BEFORE it can power up the circuit board. John T

Kirk, sounds familiar to my experiences as a used RV dealer and over 40 years an RV user. I've seen more blown fuses or no board power present and faulty ignitor tips then I have bad circuit boards. If we were there armed with a volt meter or even a 12 volt test lamp we could help him. Of course sure boards go bad and it may be that UNLESS its NOT getting power, that's the $64,000 question lol Eddie, run out to wally world or any hardware or auto parts house and buy a 12 volt test lamp. The alligator clamp end goes to ground and you use the sharp tip end to probe for 12 volts causing the lamp to glow at 12 volts PIECE OF CAKE....per my above guidelines John T

Eddie, still even a good circuit board needs power before it will work. As I noted I have had to replace the t stat UNDER THAT SMALL BLACK FOAM as shown in lenp's picture, and I have replaced the thermal fuse, EITHER OF WHICH can cause your problem. You will NEVER get that clicking gas valve operation until you have power getting TO a good working board via the thermal and t stat.......... A simple 12 volt DC tester with a light that glows upon 12 volts may find the problem. Attach the alligator clamp end to ground and probe with the sharp tip end to find 12 volts making the light glow.,,,,,,,,,,,,, Turn the unit on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,look at the diagram lenp posted and see if the light glows on BOTH sides of the thermal (if ON input but not out, its blown open and bad) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then on BOTH sides of the T stat located under the black plastic foam (it should be closed until water is hot) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Then if power is on and there's 12 volts to and through the thermal, then to and through the t stat, then to the boards input, the valve should click open and the ignitor tip throw a spark IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF the board is good........... Soooooooooooo before buying a new board insure its getting 12 volts which is via the remote switch,,,,,,,,,then to and through the thermal,,,,,,,,,,,,then to and through the t stat,,,,,,,,,,,,,then the boards 12 Volt input,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then if the t stat is closed and the boards good the valve should click open and the ignitor throw its sparks until it times out if necessary and the valve closes again. This is fairly simple 12 volt test lamp or voltmeter testing Id try BEFORE buying a new board IT NEEDS POWER TO WORK As I referred to above, I was once on the phone with Dinosaur Electronics (manufacturers of circuit boards) troubleshooting if I needed a new board or not, and they are the ones who told me to clean the boards ribbon connector strip contacts which cured a problem NO NEW BOARD REQUIRED..........If all the voltages test out Id still try that before deciding I needed a whole new board. Were all trying to save you some money hope it helps. Keep us posted and post any more questions John T

lenp, good catch. As we know, nuttins gonna happen until you get power TO THE BOARD Ive had MANY of those (thermal fuse type device) go open in all sorts of appliances like coffee makers or microwaves or hot water heaters. I've also had to replace the limit type switch or T Stat located under that black plastic foam that fits right up against the metal tank where shown by the arrow in the picture above. EITHER of those will be a cheaper fix then his control board John T

Eddie, yep that's (click) the gas solenoid valve opening (following a short delay) then the ignitor tip snaps snaps snaps if a spark is jumping the ignitor tip gap and you fire up. If you get NOTHING and the board has sufficient input voltage ???? it may be a bad board or an open limit switch or a resistive connection or the remote switch is bad or no tellin what else lol. Ive had to replace several boards over the years but before spending those bucks Id FIRST try to run some troubleshooting if the manual outlines any steps. John T

There have been times (I was a used RV dealer) when I removed the flat ribbon connector on the circuit board then lightly and gently polished the boards flat copper looking strip contacts using a pencil eraser and that cured the problem. Of course, you need a good solid 12 volt connection getting power to the board itself. On many units (not sure of yours) to see if the igniter is throwing a high tension spark, I use a jumper wire attached to the output terminal, turn it on (FIRST see if the gas valve is opening??? you can hear and feel it and also check for power getting to it) and then see if you get the tick tick tick spark spark spark out of the igniter. You may be able to visually see if its sparking without the jumper wire method, but I have seen it when the ignitor itself is working fine (via the jumper wire method) but the ceramic encased ignitor tip has a short or hairline crack or carbon trace so the energy get discharged (ignitor working) yet there's no spark to ignite the gas. I have seen them mis adjusted to the proper amount of spark gap also. BOTTOM LINE THE GAS VALVE HAS TO OPEN AND IGNITOR TIP HAS TO CREATE A SPARK. Many units I've experienced have a red light come on when you flip the switch, but it goes out once she lights. If there's good solid full 12 volts to the board and the gas valve opens but no igniting the ignitor may be bad. Since your lights are acting strange (don't see right to me on a good working board???) if there's good voltage to the board but no gas valve opening nor a spark, the board may well be the problem There can also be limit switches that are open causing failure to light, I just recently had one of those cause a heater to fail. Its best to look at your manual but if you don't have one try this link and see if that helps http://youmaydownloadthem.com/atwood-g6a-8e-manual/ John T Long retired electrical engineer and past RV dealer but rusty on this stuff so no warranty lol

Yeppers, I agree 100% Indeed the problem is a teeny tiny 0.001 amp leak here, another teeny tiny 0.001 amp leak there, and its only 6 of those before 6 milliamps flowing OUT the hot aren't being returned by the Neutral but elsewhere SO THE GFCI DOES ITS JOB AND TRIPS. Your systematic approach has done a good job, you may be as electrical safety minded as I am AND THATS SAYING SOMETHING LOL........... As you say "it never hurts to check" Congrats John T

Gee Dune that's sure a lot of NO TRIPS, how about the vacuum cleaner??? Id venture a guess if two of those high current draws were BOTH on at the same time then you may get her to trip????????? Heck you may have fixed it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If not it sounds like you know what you're doing to systematically isolate and find the offender........... Continued good luck John T

Dune, I was kidding up above about the microwave and vacuum but actually (as you noted per the articles) a high current or sudden surge appliance, especially inductive, can cause GFCI's to have fits lol. If you only have say one smooth steady amp going out to the load and having to return that's one thing, but a high surge inductive start up load may pass 20 amps momentarily which is a lot more to return and perhaps some/more current finds an alternate path ?????????? NO WARRANTY ON THAT ITS ONLY A THOUGHT. Still as Kirk rightly noted a GFCI is NOT a current limiting device, it simply measures current out and return current to see if they are near equal, but if not its flowing in a fault path so she trips AS ITS DESIGNED TO DO. John T

Gee Dune, PIECE OF CAKE just don't use the dern vacuum or microwave problem solved LOL John T with tongue in cheek

Thanks Dune, unfortunately this may be hard to diagnose over the net and not much better if there lol. I think above there's a good step by step procedure and in a nut shell what you have to do is have every breaker OFF in the RV, plug up the cord to the house, one at a time flip RV breakers on and see which one trips the GFCI. Looks like you already have the hot water off and that's always a prime suspect. Things such as too long cords, some light fixtures like fluorescent, maybe a microwave oven, rooftop AC, 120 VAC compressor fridge if you had one, and then branch circuits inside the RV which connect to its outdoor receptacles can be problematic. Its also possible a GFCI just goes bad and trips too easy, its just hard to say what's your problem, but the MOST SERIOUS situation is if there's any sort of a "hot skin" condition and if that's the case the GFCI is doing its job so be thankful. I hope the home wiring is correct?? You have one of those plug in analyzers that looks for cross wired or open grounds or open neutrals etc ??? Maybe plug the RV into a different GFCI and see what happens Sorry I'm about run out lol but I suspect outdoor receptacles or the microwave perhaps??? assuming its NOT the fault of the homes GFCI and the RV has no other problems. John T

Dune, forgive me but I'm just unsure which and where that tripping GFCI is located?? Is it one in your home or garage you're plugging the RV into orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr a GFCI breaker in the homes panel orrrrrrrrrrr is it one in the RV itself ??? John T

Dune, CONGRATULATIONS you done good. What you say complies with my suspicions noted above that if the electric heating element was essentially OUT OF THE CIRCUIT by unhooking it as I suggested (I didnt know it had that switch) or just turning it OFF as you did, and then all is well, THE GF LEAK MUST BE IN THE ELECTRIC HEATING ELEMENT which is certainly a possibility and can easily happen. Its no surprise if 120 VAC power to the heater was OFF or if the 120 volt switch on the heater is OFF it still works on propane because 1) You need it to work when dry camping with no shore power and 2) The LP Gas system operates on 12 volts DC with no 120 VAC required. Best wishes its good to get feedback John T

AHHHHHHHHH HAHHHHHHHHHHHH thanks for the new info I found AFTER my post above. Its not good to use an electric heating element with no water in the tank WELL DUH I'm back to my post above now. I would disconnect and safely remove and cap off the 120 VAC to the hot water heater and then see if the GFCI still trips ?????????? If not it must be caused by a bad (electrical leaking) heating element. If unhooked the GFCI doesnt trip and you don't ever plan to run the heater on 120 volts just eliminate the 120 volt problem and run on LP gas. Minerals and calcium etc can cause enough current leakage (ONLY 5 to 6 milliamps) in an elec water heater to trip a GFC| John T John T

Dune that's "very interesting" even if your water heater doesn't have a 120 VAC heating element installed it may be wired for that "option" since you state "it also has a breaker" QUESTION does that breaker trip anytime you flip it on orrrrrrrrrrr ONLY when it lights does it trip???????????? QUESTION is there actually 120 VAC wiring connected to that water heater or only the 12 volts??? I wonder if that breaker that's tripping is due to the water heater orrrrrrrrrr theres another device or circuit or another receptacle that's causing the trip. If 120 VAC is indeed connected to the water heater disconnect and safely cap it off then see if that breaker still trips or not and if its anytime turned on or only upon lighting???? John T

NOR DO I I'm teased for being over cautious or over safe and over respecting electricity but that was my life's work so by golly I respect and fear it............. Indeed it only takes something like 30 to 50 milliamps (0.030 to 0.050 amps) to mess up your ticker which is why a GFCI trips around ONLY 5 to 6 milliamps BUT THATS ALSO WHY THEY CAN NUISANCE TRIP especially in outdoor or damp or dusty or corrosive locations I agree THEY NEED TO RESOLVE THE GFCI ISSUE and sometimes the units themselves just go bad ????????? That could be the problem ???? John T

I have NO problem with those cold barley soda pops lol Sorry for too much info, an engineer cant help himself, its in our DNA, so let me make it simpler for you. EASY WAY use a 12/3 cord (like an extension cord) which plugs into the Inverters outlet and run the other end up to a surface or flush mounted regular 120 volt 15 amp household duplex receptacle located for cell phone and computer and small TV etc etc PIECE OF CAKE even after a couple cold ones lol NOTE You could even install a 120 volt 15 amp household outlet there in the RV fed by the Inverter that has a built in USB terminal !!!!!!!!!! Those are so handy since many small electronics use USB and its no harder to install then a regular outlet which you wire to your inverter with a plug and cord PIECE OF CAKE and Ive seen them at Lowes or Home Depot or Menards just a 120 volt 15 amp outlet in one half and a USB in the other ID GO THAT ROUTE.......... OTHER EASY WAY run that 12/3 cord from the inverter back to where the RV power cord is stored and install an outlet that matches the RV power cord plug. If its a 30 amp RV you can easily buy the matching NEMA TT 30 outlet receptacle for mounting where you can plug the RV power cord into when driving or dry camping AGAIN YOU CANT POWER HEAVY CURRENT LOADS NOTE if you wanna go the back feed the RV panel with proper lock out mechanisms orrrrrrrrrrrrr use a full blown transfer switch orrrrrrrrrrr any sort of a sub panel arrangement for the Inverter THATS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE AND COMPLICATED then the two alternatives listed above. I bet you can decipher this even after two beers lol PS as I'm sure youre aware its possible to use a single initial first in the circuit GFCI receptacle and then off its LOAD side run wire to other downstream outlets and they also are GFCI protected and if any of them are say outside or where it may be damp or real dusty THOSE regular downstream outlets NOT the GFCI one are causing the nuisance trip !!! If the GFCI has wire on its LOAD side to other located outlets disconnect that first and see if the GFCI still trips????????? If not then look for dirt or moisture or mis wiring in the other downstream outlets fed off the GFCI LOAD side. Sure the first GFCI is wired right??????????? Best wishes n God Bless John T

Dune, excellent question to which there is more then one answer so I will try and list the alternatives cheapest and easiest to the more complex where warranted, and try my best to keep it short n sweet but anyone here will tell you THATS NOT MY STRONG SUIT LOL. For those who dislike my in depth comprehensive answers YOU DONT HAVE TO AND PLEASE DONT READ THIS !!!! 1) An easy AND NEC COMPLIANT way to feed your Inverters output to your entire RV distribution panel is simply plug the RV power cord direct into the inverter using the appropriate wiring and adapters. That is essentially a poor mans transfer switching arrangement as you're switching FROM the utility TO the Inverter configured as a Separately Derived Source with a Bonded Neutral and can NOT mix the utility and inverter together nor backfeed one another. Short sweet simple almost idiot proof transfer switch PROVIDED the Inverter has a Bonded Neutral which would be equivalent to the single point grounding arrangement in the RV parks distribution system. OF COURSE you can ONLY use those RV receptacles and loads that the Inverter has the capacity to power NOT a rooftop AC etc. One would have to switch off high current use circuit breakers (or just dont use them) when plugged into the Inverter. I owned many many 30 amp RV's that had the onboard generators output receptacle located right inside the cord storage box so while driving or dry camping I simply plugged it there then at an RV park I plugged instead to the RV parks power pedestal....... 2) NOW if you get into hard wire backfeeding the RV panel THINGS GET MORE EXPENSIVE AND COMPLICATED as you need a Transfer Switch such that the RV panel can ONLY be connected to one source of energy (Genny or Inverter or Utility) at a time and you CAN NOT backfeed one or the other. In a homes distribution panel the easiest and cheapest transfer switch method involves a simple slider lockout so if the breaker connected to the inverter is switched ON the Main breaker has to be OFF. In that arrangement you connect the inverter (cords and right plugs etc) to a properly sized circuit breaker inside your panel so with the RV main breaker off the inverter back feeds your panel BUT AGAIN YOU CAN ONLY FEED CIRCUITS AND LOADS THE INVERTER IS CAPABLE OF POWERING and one would flip the high current breakers OFF. YOU SIMPLY WIRE THE INVERTER (plugs and cords etc) TO A CIRCUIT BREAKER IN YOUR PANEL AND HAVE THE MAIN BREAKER OFF SO THE INVERTER IS ESSENTIALLY CONNECTED TO THOSE PANEL LOADS VIA CLOSED BREAKERS. Its easy to do PROVIDED the main breaker is OFF when the Inverter breaker is ON THATS A MUST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3) A full fledged Transfer Switch whose single OUTPUT feeds the RV panel but it switches between two Inputs, the Inverter OR the Utility. NOTE in this arrangement the number of poles the switch requires depends on if the Inverter is configured as a Separate Derived Source or not in which case you would need a Floating Neutral. The type of Transfer Switch and how many poles and bonded or floating neutrals and separate derived source or not is beyond the scope of your question so ONLY if needed will I go into all that. ONE EASY EASY METHOD is simply plug the RV power cord into the Inverter. OOPS I ALMOST FORGOT An even easier method would be to hard wire the Inverters output to a few choice located receptacles at strategic locations in the RV used to charge phones and laptops and a small TV etc. etc. NOTE a GFCI monitors the incoming hot current versus the outgoing neutral return and if more then as little as 5 or 6 milliamps (0.005 amps) difference exists that means its returned elsewhere unsafe so it trips You didn't ask so I wont bore you or the others with more GFCI theory but it doesn't take much moisture or dirt or humidity or wiring problems to cause nuisance tripping so you may wanna look at that and post back if you need more GFCI repair info. They may even be wired incorrectly and if its outside or feeds an outdoor outlet they can easily trip due to dirt or moisture. Id consider EITHER wire the inverter to a few dedicated outlets in the RV orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr wire up an outlet in the RV power cord storage box fed from the inverter output receptacle via a cord so you can plug the RV's power cord there when dry camping or driving etc. NOTE I'm talking most about 120 volt 30 amp systems, if you need 120/240 and 5o amp it gets more expensive Got it???????? Questions????? John T Long retired and very NEC rusty electrical power distribution design engineer SO NO WARRANTY, do what the more current professionals and "experts" say.

Wheat Bread, you asked a good question: "We just brought a new to us 2015 coachmen clipper home today. We plugged in to a 12 gauge 100" 110V extension and turned on the AC. It ran fine then I turned it to high and seconds later it went off, it had thrown the breaker in the house. Then we got a 30 amp extension cord and plugged it in and it ran for probably 2 hours before it did the same thing, threw the breaker in the house and the outlet was hot to the touch. Any ideas on wha the problem might be?" I agree with the other gents, THE PROBLEM IS YOURE DROPPING WAY TOO MUCH VOLTAGE ACROSS THAT LONG EXTENSION CORD that reduces the voltage available at the AC itself causing it to draw more current thereby it trips the houses circuit breaker AND THATS HOW THE BREAKER SHOULD FUNCTION. If the RV was located closer to an outlet such that a much shorter or no added extension cord at all was necessary, you might get by running the AC subject to load and total circuit length and the breaker and actual voltage. The "hot" outlet is indicative of more current then its rated to handle and/or a loose burned carboned up or otherwise resistive heat producing (I Squared R) connection. I have ran RV rooftop AC's using a short 12 gauge extension cord to a 15 or 20 amp home outlet with an adapter BUT THAT'S PUSHING IT. Use of a 30 amp 10 Gauge extension cord or the actual RV 30 amp power cord ONLY is an improvement and even better if plugged into a 30 amp RV outlet with no adapters required like if at an RV park with a 30 amp receptacle John T