9 replies to this topic

[Roadwarrior]

This had been done for Transit buses with many approaches.
I hope to use this thread to educated and discuss how this would work for Bus conversions.
let me through out some facts.
Most buses are HEV, Hybrids.
Some use the Allison H 40 EP™ and H 50 EP™ which is a hybrid transmission.
http://www.allisontransmission.com/commercial/transmissions/hybrid-bus/
th people that do after market are
http://www.stewartandstevenson.com/products%20and%20services/specialty%20products/hybrid%20bus/default.htm
There some that put an electric motor on the Transmission an put a Generator on the the Diesel engine
Few use Electric motors to drive each back wheel.
Some replace he diesel with other power sources like;
BC Transit Whistler Fuel Cell Bus Fleet
Capstone Turbines for HEV
Some use Batteries then recharge at the end of route.
All those that do not have the diesel have about 100 mile range.

So why even consider this form of power train.
Multiple power sources
like the Fuel cell uses Hydrogen
The Turbine can be setup for CNG, Propane, Diesel just push a switch to select which one ot use.

The design I am working on can do a few ways:
put a generator on the Diesels and use a motor on the transmission
use two motors on each back wheels
finally use a motor on each wheel.

I am sure there are some that raise eyebrow and shake heads. However if you interested chime in.

[Russ Barnes]

Last year at the annual March M.A.T.S. (Middle America Truck Show) in Louisville there was a Kenworth set up with a smaller diesel engine than normal and a big generator with a motor on each of the two differentials. Not having to have that big torque to start 80,000# rolling they could install a smaller engine running at a fixed rpm and then they could downsize the oil burner. I don't know how well it worked, but with the green thing going on there were a lot of lookers. Good luck on your project.

[Zulu]

Maybe you should attend EVS26 in LA this May.

[Roadwarrior]

Maybe you should attend EVS26 in LA this May.

thanks for the link.
I am more into the hydrogen powered HEV.
I did not see any vehicles using a Power source in the 600KW range.
The new delorean is 412 KW but Just electric
I like to get the Honda Clarity for a Toad

[Ran D. St. Clair]

The new technologies are interesting, but I always want to come back to the raw physics to evaluate their viability in comparison to other technologies.

I believe fuel cells have a maximum theoretical efficiency of 50%, which just happens to be the same as an internal combustion engine. The fuel cell, electric motor combination probably comes closer to the theoretical limit, but I wonder by how much. Also, a fuel cell electric hybrid already has many of the parts necessary to implement regenerative braking, which is where I assume it shines in a stop and go application like a transit bus. For a down the road vehicle, just pushing air at a more or less constant speed I imagine the extra weight and complexity of regenerative breaking is not as big an advantage, or even a disadvantage. In that application, I wonder if a fuel cell and electric motor has any real advantage over a well developed IC motor and transmission.

I was interested to read about the turbines. In general I think of small turbines as being fuel hogs with low efficiency but very high total power output for a give size and weight. They seem to be claiming that theirs are high efficiency. I wonder if they are making those claims based on full integration with a regenerative braking system as compared to an IC driven vehicle without regenerative braking in a stop and go application?

I love the new technologies, but am always suspicious of possible marketing hype... Comments?

[Roadwarrior]

The new technologies are interesting, but I always want to come back to the raw physics to evaluate their viability in comparison to other technologies.

I believe fuel cells have a maximum theoretical efficiency of 50%, which just happens to be the same as an internal combustion engine. The fuel cell, electric motor combination probably comes closer to the theoretical limit, but I wonder by how much. Also, a fuel cell electric hybrid already has many of the parts necessary to implement regenerative braking, which is where I assume it shines in a stop and go application like a transit bus. For a down the road vehicle, just pushing air at a more or less constant speed I imagine the extra weight and complexity of regenerative breaking is not as big an advantage, or even a disadvantage. In that application, I wonder if a fuel cell and electric motor has any real advantage over a well developed IC motor and transmission.

I was interested to read about the turbines. In general I think of small turbines as being fuel hogs with low efficiency but very high total power output for a give size and weight. They seem to be claiming that theirs are high efficiency. I wonder if they are making those claims based on full integration with a regenerative braking system as compared to an IC driven vehicle without regenerative braking in a stop and go application?

I love the new technologies, but am always suspicious of possible marketing hype... Comments?

300
did you read all the links provided so far.
this is not about HEV being more cost effect against an ICE. it is about lowering carbon foot print and renewable energy.
Example Normal ICe lease are about $300 per month, the Honda clarity is $600 per month.
practial is there are few hydrogen filling stations.
However I have a electrolysis unit that produces 300 slpm the only part missing the compressor at 5000psi.
The Clarity uses 700 slpm for a 100KW system.

Edited by Roadwarrior, 15 February 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[The Ruegg's]

You might find this interesting. Solomon Technologies Inc. Florida developed what they called the "Electric Wheel". I first saw this implemented in marine applications. Not sure what happened to them, and it seems that IkanosTech now has their technology. It's been a few years since I was thinking of implementing electric wheels in a catamaran I wanted to build. However at the time they also had the "Wheel" installed in Tractors, Dozers, Cars, etc. I remember that they were being sued by Toyota because their design (planar gear) was similar to Toyota's. Anyhow, to make a long story short, just thought this resource might be useful somehow. Hope it is...
Cheers!
Karl

[Roadwarrior]

The Wheel in only good for 96KW. that is about what a Bus my size would take for level driving at 60mph.
but to climb a mountain with a continuous speed of 60mph with a goose to pass I need 250KW per wheel.
Currently I have a 250KW 3 phase generator on the back of my 460 Tbird and another 250KW on the 4 speed manual
this is similar to the VIA
I am currently up grading all my CanBus nodes with new micro and sensors.

[Roadwarrior]

Maybe you should attend EVS26 in LA this May.

I did not get there, but they have videos I am viewing.

[Roadwarrior]

I really want to become a Fuel cell power vehicle.
My target is the Ballard 150KW PEM cells output 465-730 Volts @300 amp (900lbs). estimated cost is $450K per unit, not counting the tanks and hardware.