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#1 Diane & Mark

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 06:15 PM

http://www.globalhea...d-heart-disease

We currently have deep well water, amazingly good quality. I've read lots of RVers use clorine often to "kill the bugs". however, If you have good healthy bugs inside you already, most every time they will kill any bad bugs that get in. But clorine kills off your good bugs and then bad bugs become a big threat. We're going FT soon and will have to find a way to avoid clorine, anyone here use alternatives to clorine? I will be looking for more schoolwork I guess as I have long believed that clorine was bad,bad,bad.

Snip from article at above link: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We are quite convinced, based on this study, that there is an association between cancer and chlorinated water." - Medical College Of Wisconsin research team

The addition of chlorine to our drinking water began in the late 1800s and by 1904 was the standard in water treatment, and for the most part remains so today. We don’t use chlorine because it’s the safest or even the most effective means of disinfection, we use it because it is the cheapest. In spite of all our technological advances, we essentially still pour bleach in our water before we drink it. The long term effects of chlorinated drinking water have just recently being recognized. According to the U.S. Council Of Environmental Quality, “Cancer risk among people drinking chlorinated water is 93% higher than among those whose water does not contain chlorine.”

Dr. Joseph Price wrote a highly controversial book in the late sixties titled Coronaries/Cholesterol/Chlorine and concluded that nothing can negate the incontrovertible fact, the basic cause of atherosclerosis and resulting entities such as heart attacks and stroke, is chlorine.” Dr. Price later headed up a study using chickens as test subjects, where two groups of several hundred birds were observed throughout their span to maturity. One group was given water with chlorine and the other without. The group raised with chlorine, when autopsied, showed some level of heart or circulatory disease in every specimen, the group without had no incidence of disease. The group with chlorine under winter conditions, showed outward signs of poor circulation, shivering, drooped feathers and a reduced level of activity. The group without chlorine grew faster, larger and displayed vigorous health. This study was well recepted in the poultry industry and is still used as a reference today. As a result, most large poultry producers use dechlorinated water. It would be a common sense conclusion that if regular chlorinated tap water is not good enough for the chickens, then it probably is not good enough for us humans!

There is a lot of well founded concern about chlorine. When chlorine is added to our water, it combines with other natural compounds to form Trihalomethanes (chlorination byproducts), or THMs. These chlorine byproducts trigger the production of free radicals in the body, causing cell damage, and are highly carcinogenic. “Although concentrations of these carcinogens (THMs) are low, it is precisely these low levels that cancer scientists believe are responsible for the majority of human cancers in the United States“. The Environmental Defense Fund

Simply stated chlorine is a pesticide, as defined by the U.S. EPA, who’s sole purpose is to kill living organisms. When we consume water containing chlorine, it kills some part of us, destroying cells and tissue inside our body. Dr. Robert Carlson, a highly respected University of Minnesota researcher who’s work is sponsored by the Federal Environmental Protection Agency, sums it up by claiming , “the chlorine problem is similar to that of air pollution”, and adds that “chlorine is the greatest crippler and killer of modern times!”

Breast cancer, which now effects one in every eight women in North America, has recently been linked to the accumulation of chlorine compounds in the breast tissue. A study carried out in Hartford Connecticut, the first of it’s kind in North America, found that, “women with breast cancer have 50% to 60% higher levels of organochlorines (chlorination byproducts) in their breast tissue than women without breast cancer.”

One of the most shocking components to all of these studies is that up to 2/3s of our harmful exposure to chlorine is due to inhalation of steam and skin absorption while showering. A warm shower opens up the pores of the skin and allows for excelerated absorption of chlorine and other chemicals in water. The steam we inhale while showering can contain up to 50 times the level of chemicals than tap water due to the fact that chlorine and most other contaminants vaporize much faster and at a lower temperature than water. Inhalation is a much more harmful means of exposure since the chlorine gas (chloroform) we inhale goes directly into our blood stream. When we drink contaminated water the toxins are partially filtered out by our kidneys and digestive system. Chlorine vapors are known to be a strong irritant to the sensitive tissue and bronchial passages inside our lungs, it was used as a chemical weapon in World War II. The inhalation of chlorine is a suspected cause of asthma and bronchitis, especially in children… which has increased 300% in the last two decades. “Showering is suspected as the primary cause of elevated levels of chloroform in nearly every home because of chlorine in the water.” Dr Lance Wallace, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

Chlorine in shower water also has a very negative cosmetic effect, robbing our skin and hair of moisture and elasticity, resulting in a less vibrant and youthful appearance. Anyone who has ever swam in a chlorinated pool can relate to the harsh effects that chlorine has on the skin and hair. What’s surprising is that we commonly find higher levels of chlorine in our tap water than is recommended safe for swimming pools.

Aside from all the health risks related to chlorine in our water, it is the primary cause of bad taste and odor in drinking water. The objectionable taste causes many people to turn to other less healthful beverages like soft drinks, tea or other sweetened drinks. A decreased intake of water, for any reason, can only result in a lower degree of health.

The good news is that chlorine is one of the easiest substances to remove from our water. For that reason it logically should serve it’s purpose of keeping our water free from harmful bacteria and water borne diseases right up to the time of consumption, where it should then be removed by quality home water filtration.

No one will argue that chlorine serves an important purpose, and that the hazards of doing away with chlorine are greater than or equal to the related health risks. The simple truth is that chlorine is likely here to stay. The idea that we could do away with chlorine any time in the near future is just not realistic. It is also clear that chlorine represents a very real and serious threat to our health and should be removed in our homes, at the point of use, both from the water we drink and the water we shower in.


Hi! My signature was political and therefore removed by a moderator.

#2 RV

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 07:02 PM

All you have to do is use a whole house charcoal filter at the hose or if you just want the chlorine you drink cleaned a sink charcoal filter. It is best to have the plumbing in the RV chlorinated to keep the little boogers from growing in the pipes and keeping algae blooms at bay. Or to put it in lab terms, the good bacteria does not eat the bad bacteria. The good bacteria eats the food and excretes things we need. Your white blood cells and some other immune system defenses with specialized leukocytes (WBCs) and other antibodies are what defends against infections.

Chlorine does make some bad things when it is mixed with organic matter in the pipes. Trihalomethanes are formed as a by-product predominantly when chlorine is used to disinfect water for drinking. They represent one group of chemicals generally referred to as disinfection by-products. They result from the reaction of chlorine and/or bromine with organic matter present in the water being treated. The THMs produced have been associated through epidemiological studies with some adverse health effects. Many governments set limits on the amount permissible in drinking water. However, trihalomethanes are only one group of many hundreds of possible disinfection by-products—the vast majority of which are not monitored—and it has not yet been clearly demonstrated which of these are the most plausible candidate for causation of these health effects. In the United States, the EPA limits the total concentration of the four chief constituents (chloroform, bromoform, bromodichloromethane, and dibromochloromethane), referred to as total trihalomethanes (TTHM), to 80 parts per billion in treated water.

So your chemistry is accurate but your microbiology is way off base.

Activated charcoal filters adsorb chlorine out of the water almost completely, and helps with many other contaminants.

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#3 Barbaraok

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:57 PM

I don't even know where to start. How about drinking surface water that has not be treated increases your chance of contracting Typhoid Fever by 100%. Leading causes of cancer include SMOKING. A much, much more significant effect than the minor amounts of any trihalomethanes that you might get from treated water. It is interesting that everyone gives a quote attributed to the US Council on Environmental Quality (and there are several web sites of "organic living" (and I'm still waiting to find out what inorganic living or inorganic food is - - eating rocks?) and water filter sellers with the same information but no one provides the link to the document where this statement was made. The US Council on Environmental Quality does not do research, they formulate policy under NEPA, research work comes from EPA or CDC.

Personally, I'll take chlorinated, treated water over untreated water any day. There are lots of risks out there and it is important to make sure that you know what the real risk is. Put a carbon filter on the faucet you use for drinking if your worried about it, but you really don't want to take out the residual disinfection from your system. And comparing the residual chlorine level to the mustard gas used in World War I (really not used in WWII) is totally inappropriate. I also note that several "research findings" are given, but again not any documentation of where these findings were published. If you can't give the source of the peer-reviewed and published study then it is nothing more than rumors.

Likewise, a Dr. Joseph M. Price is quoted - - but nothing is listed as to when his chicken study was done, where it was done at, where it was published, etc. And writing a book means nothing - it is publishing in peer-reviewed journals where the methods and materials can be analyzed and others in the discipline can replicate the experiments to validate the results. Don't you think that if there was this great link between chlorinated water and heart disease that there would be a wealth of information coming out of the NIH?

Again, a little Google search will show that most of the people using the same "information" will be people trying to sell filtration units. And nothing like scaring people to try and push them into buying your products.

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#4 RV

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 02:42 PM

Barb,
Good post, I agree. My intent in answering as I did above was to make the statement that the good bacteria does not eat the bad bacteria, that is the job of antibodies. It is true that chlorine does produce THMs when in contact with organic matter which bacteria and the sediments in most pipes contain. But I did neglect to say that like some medications with adverse side effects, the solution is much more preferable to not killing the e.coli and other pathogens that inhabit water supplies when left untreated. I read one para of the source doc and knew it was not credible. But then again most folks don't have my years in micro first hand testing water and doing the pathology reports on that and people in med labs. Not getting my info from a relative or teaching it in school. If I can get folks to see the tiny truth blown out of proportion then I am happy. I am not into teaching Micro, Hematology, chemistry, urinalysis, turbidity and saturation testing online, or tooting my horn on it. Besides that was a past life and I have to pull out my well worn copy Schneerson's atlas of diagnostic microbiology just to remember which are which sometimes. Of course folks can read this online: http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

:lol: ;)

One other fact folks need to know is that untested well water can also be contaminated with chemicals worse than many municipal water supplies as well as bacteria. Well water does not equate to safe water either in 100% of cases. Maybe more so 200 years ago, but not now.

Here is the EPA page on well water information about contaminants in well water. http://water.epa.gov...well/health.cfm

That is what I mean by the fact that all well water (well water is also what is termed groundwater) can be toxic too. The key is testing and remediation of any problems found in the water.

The myth that we have good bacteria that overcomes bad bacteria is most likely from folks hearing that the locals can drink water that people not from a local area cannot because they are not accustomed to the new bacteria thus their antibodies aren't prepared for the new benign bacteria that the gut is not yet accustomed to. But pathogens are not at any time safe because of previous exposure. They are toxic in all cases like E. Coli when sufficient quantities are ingested.

Taking THMs out of context and thinking that fast flow filters can make water pure are both correlation errors made from many people misunderstanding the biology and chemistry at work in the human body.

In many cases the choice is ingest E.Coli or chlorine, and in every one of those cases I will take the chlorine. Don't like the taste? Filter it at the faucet with charcoal and almost every bit of the chlorine taste and substance will be adsorbed out of it.

I also will not drink from any private well that has not been tested regularly.

The good thing is that in the US and Canada all water in commercial RV parks and municipal water supplies is tested, and safe to drink. Heck 99% of bottled water comes from municipal supplies with no more treatment than the people in that city get from their taps.

Edited by RV, 20 November 2011 - 02:58 PM.

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#5 Barbarian Babe

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:19 AM

RV I'm with you. A very good post with a lot of helpful, and health info.
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#6 RV

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 01:00 PM

Thanks Babe!

I try.:)

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#7 cherry

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:44 PM

Good post RV and Babe. I totally agree with you both.

I am a nurse too but I sure am not a germaphobe! BTW I love micro. lol

If you do not like th taste of the water then filter it but let the chlorine work in the tank and pipes. I have to laugh at people that say they only drink bottled water since it does usually come form municiple water. Besides that they impregnate (some companies) the plastic in the bottles with antibiotics to help keep the water safe. Sooo you are exposed to more anibiotics. (I do NOT use ani-bacterial anything soaps etc in my home either as I am a big believer we over use antibiotics.s

Yep give me the tested water any day.

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#8 RayIN

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:24 PM

As Derek put so well, chlorine is so easy to remove from drinking/cooking water it is a non-issue.
Any business that provides water to the public must comply with the EPA Safe Drinking Water Standards. That includes RV parks/CG's. That is a complete listing of contaminates regulated by the EPA. At to safe bottled water, bottled water is not required to meet those same EPA standards.

Edited by RayIN, 22 November 2011 - 08:28 PM.

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#9 richfaa

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:01 AM

Why is it that just about every article I find about the dangers of HIGH levels of clorine in drinking water are sponsered by companies selling filter systems???? Just wondering..
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#10 Barbaraok

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:14 PM

Because they have to make you afraid of something in order to buy their products. Take a smidgen of truth, tell it in a way designed to scare people and then sell them something to quiet their fears - - voila, money coming your way. Look at all of the money that has been made from the scares people were given about asbestos and mold.

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#11 RayIN

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:18 PM

When you read the link I posted, Chlorine is harmful in different quantities for different people. For instance, when you read the EPA(they do not sell filters) regulations, infants <2 yrs. should not receive any chlorine from any source. We use a PUR faucet filter to remove chlorine, cheap and effective-if changed per mfgrs. recommendations.If you don't want to buy a filter, boiling removes/neutralizes chlorine.
Now if I could filter out fluoride(a poison), better yet.

Edited by RayIN, 28 November 2011 - 07:20 PM.

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#12 weldon

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:31 PM

This last year I was the one to check the chlorine in the water for six CG in the NF. RV is right on, I can add nothing to what he said.
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#13 Jim Gehlen

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 04:58 PM

Go to www.awwa.com about any concerns you may have about water quality. Their manuals were my bible of water treatment for 20+ years
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#14 kingskids

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:32 AM

We had great well water at our S&B, but when we started talking about FT'ing, we decided that we didn't want to drink whatever came out of the tap at whatever campground we were in (know of one gal who got REALLY sick from campground water, and another who's pet did also). So after exhaustive research, we found a gravity fed system whose filters are good for 6,000 gallons, is very inexpensive to purchase and use, was designed for third world countries to filter contaminated drinking water or even pond and river water when needed, removes fertilizer, removes food coloring from the water (used as a periodic test to make sure it's not time to clean your filter or replace them), removes parasites (such as E. Coli, Klebsiella, Pseudomonas, Aeriginousis, Giardia, Cryptosporidium), and even filters out pharmaceuticals (our water systems now are ripe with birth control pills, blood pressure meds, viagra type meds, pain pills, and hormones - just to name a few). They also have an optional add on filter that filters out 95% of fluoride (indeed a poison - and will make your bones brittle causing osteoporosis). Works out to around $.02-.03 or less per gallon, uses no electricity, and gives me peace of mind about what is actually going into our bodies. I realize that the chlorine is in a way, beneficial - to kill bad stuff - but with a filter like this, we can now take out all that bad stuff - with or without it being killed first.

Visit http://www.berkeyfil...rcomparison.htm for a cost comparison with other filters or
http://www.berkeyfil...avel-berkey.htm for more info on the travel size (perfect for rv's)

We have no affiliation with them, we're just very satisfied users of the filter now for over a year. Even used it in the S&B after we got started with it in the rv, just to play it safe... We've shown it to other rv'ers and they also decided that campground water is not safe, and that other filters don't do what these do. We get one chance at taking care of our bodies, and after mom had breast cancer, I'm not allowing any more chemicals in my body than is absolutely necessary and UN avoidable - water is one thing I have a little more control over... :)

Edited by kingskids, 22 April 2012 - 07:42 AM.

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#15 Newt

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

Looking at the website, I don't find what micron the filters are rated at. What will it do that a reverse osmosis or .5 micron charcoal filter won't?

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#16 David & Lorna Schinske

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:42 AM

...I have to laugh at people that say they only drink bottled water since it does usually come form municipal water...

Laugh away. I drink only bottled or filtered water. But probably not for the reasons you assume. I can travel 200 miles and get sick from the water. Nothing is wrong with the water. I understand that, possibly more than you realize. Based on what I have read over several years, I do not handle the change in the normally occurring local bacteria. So instead of being ill for a couple weeks every time we move (not fun), I simply drink bottled water. We sell it, it's cheap and I just grab a bottle as I walk out the door. We filter ALL the water that enters the bus. I have a sediment filter followed by a 0.5 micron filter. Once our water gets filtered, it is safe for me to drink. I also dislike the taste of city water. I used to live for many years in an area that bottled water. I know what the water was they bottled. I also prefer the water bottled by a company in Tiger, GA. For me, it was "local" water and tasted like "real" water. I bought it whenever possible while traveling around. better than buying a soda. in our current location, there are RO drinking water refill stations all over town. Reason is because this section of NM has high levels of arsenic in the water. While it is (barely) within the EPA's acceptable levels, many folks are concerned about it. So many drink bottled water. I guess you feel that is laughable as well. I guess we all have to decide what we feel are acceptable risks. Personally, I will stick with my filtered water both in little bottles and using my own filters. I have known about THMs for many years and have filtered all city water for that time. I do my own research. With the internet, it's pretty easy to spend a month or so looking into the topic. I also know that city water pipes break and can become contaminated for a short period of time. I will stick with what I have found works for us. Doesn't matter if some folks think its funny or not. Their opinion does not count. I would suggest that if you have concerns about water, then you need to research a little on your own and not trust what others on this or other forums say. They do not know what the quality of water is where you RV/live at. As for the testing, I know an RV park in Franklin,NC (where we used to live) that would post a required statement in the local paper every time they had a Giardia problem in their water system (happened about three or four times a year). The notice would appear about a month AFTER the problem was detected. I always wondered about the folks who were there only a few days and filled up their holding tanks while there before moving on. I'm pretty sure they never knew they had filled their tanks and had been drinking contaminated water. We also had the misfortune of staying at a campground with "questionable" water. We didn't drink the water but my pets did. Both my pets got sick. My elderly cat never really recovered from the illness (she had all the symptoms of Giardia). So unlike some people, I really don't find being a tad paranoid about drinking water to be funny. But do your research and be a smart consumer. An RO system will remove pretty much everything, but you probably do not need that level of protection. I know we feel we do not. But I have done my own research and came up with a system we feel will protect us almost all the time. There is no single "right" way. My time, my health, my money, my solution. Take the time to find yours.

Edited by David & Lorna Schinske, 21 April 2012 - 10:42 AM.


#17 RV

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:47 PM

Note: There are one or two here on the forums who say the longer the post, the less right it is. For them, the following post is pure unadulterated BS, and your personal agenda/s has/have been served. For the rest, some facts and hopefully helpful work I took the time to post.

Lorna,
You said at one point that you are fine with filtered water but started out saying you drink bottled water but know where that water comes from. A sediment filter and a standard charcoal filter for fast flow will do a lot for you but the municipal water supplies have very wide variances in their own quality and water sources as well as the variance of the source water quality. That is why I prefer to filter my own for taste and chlorine from public water supplies again, and then I can fill a stainless steel drinking water bottle from it or put it in my 24 oz. inert plastic Tervis insulated cup. I have seen too many issues with bottled water folks and their different plants around the country. One thing about THMs is little known by the majority of the population. 80% of the absorption can be from showering or swimming in chlorinated pools. And who wants to swim in (Yuck!) non-chlorinated pools! Thus the recommend for those freaking out over THMs to use the whole house filter, which then lets the house or RV pipes get green and red algae blooms and also sulfur eating bacteria that make the rotten egg smell in the hot water and if bad even cold water lines. (Why mostly in water heaters? Because boiling or heating to high temps for long periods inactivates chlorine.)

Let's get basic and factual which most of your's is.

First off this addressed to the undecided. If one has a dog in the fight to defend spending money on, there will be no convincing them and I don't even try that. If they however choose to do things differently then me, for them it is worth it. Choosing for preference is different than opinions being fact. Immediate bennies, even if only having the latest and greatest like I do with computers, and consequences in the long run, may be right for their cost/benefit analysis, and not mine, so? Some just like having a group that they think can be trusted, and blindly follow them with high confidence, until they lead them off a cliff all agreeing they have it right. Then there are the independent thinkers like RVrs right?
:blink: :unsure: Well some of them too. B)

1. No fast flow filtering system will make water pure.
2. A sediment filter and a charcoal filter behind it will make water taste good from any public water supply, and remove any chlorine and most other chemicals that charcoal can adsorb.
3. Reverse osmosis won't get everything either, not even distillation as many VOCs and other organic and inorganic. (See *** below)
4. The best way to get rid of fluoride is to get the municipalities to change the laws and stop adding it to water. The most expensive and effective alumina filters will only get 80% of it anyway for maybe one year at 100 bucks a pop.
5. Bottled water isn't even as regulated as municipal water. Then you add the plastics and the hot warehouses in summer and the fact that they are nothing more than filtered municipal water. (see * below)

Being aware of the possible dangers of excessive anything in our waters is a good thing.

Believing snake oil water filter sales people who tell you that it gets 99% or 98% of everything and that your water is "pure H2O molecules or even close" with them is foolish.

Believing that not adding chlorine is a good idea is foolish. (See ** )

My jury is still out on fluoride. But removing it is next to impossible once added, and even then only 70-80% at best, and usually not that in the real world.


* For me bottled water has additional drawbacks, with no gains, over using a 20 dollar switchable filter that attaches to the spigot at the kitchen sink, or a Brita. But only when those filters are used with water from municipal or tested public water supplies as the bottled waters are. I am not laughing at folks who choose to drink bottled water any more than I laugh at folks who have to have 100 dollar handbags, or 10,000 dollar watches ion their wrists. Good for them! Me I won't do either of those or bottled water.

Laugh at me for what I choose? I just ordered a new 600 dollar on sale 999 dollar computer to replace a desktop that is perfect and less than 2 years old, and just bought a new Laptop and bought a 128GB SSD for it and 8 GBs of RAM before I turned it on. There are people that might laugh at that but it is what I am interested in and what I spend the resources I have earned over a lifetime on. I honestly smile at folks who try the 5th grade peer pressure crap on me. Either they can't afford it and are doing a sour grapes on me, or are just elitist psuedo-whatever. So Lorna I would say let them laugh away and drink al the bottled water you like. I will continue to buy computers every year or three and own three for me (Desk and two portables) and one for my SH along with Tablets and Galaxy smart phones for music player duty for me only. I don't do cell phones, but keep on on charge in my vehicle that is not paid for. They have to answer emergency 911 calls if a tower is near. That answers the emergency folks statements. My SH has one that we do pay for, but not me. I don't lead off with caring a hoot whether anybody laughs at me. But when someone gives me some new facts i listen closely. Then I do my own cost/benefit analysis for me. Budget has little to do with it even though we are not wealthy by most standards.

I make my water taste good from our municipal supply with a simple and cheap under sink sediment and charcoal filter from Culligan with sink spigot that was on sale for 26 bucks or so including filter on Amazon. I just switched from a sinktop Brita as it is just too slow. I can also get a stage 2 and tree filter for the housing that do as well as the Berkey filters and cost a bunch more but are much faster than the Berkey. See I am filtering water from a tested public water supply. I am not filtering contaminated river water in Africa or untreated water. I just want to remove the chlorine only at the sink on demand, and in the icemaker not remove it from the pipes. Most THMs are also adsorbed too.

** A really rational and accurate statement for beginners in Micro and human biochemistry:


How are Canadians exposed to THMs in drinking water?
Canadians can be exposed to THMs when drinking tap water containing the chemical compounds. Showering, bathing and other water use activities can also contribute to an individual's total exposure. For example, THMs can evaporate from the tap and be inhaled during showering, or they can be absorbed through the skin during bathing. These routes of exposure have been considered in the guideline setting process. Water that meets the total THMs guideline is considered safe for all domestic uses, including drinking, bathing, showering and food preparation.


Should pregnant women take special precautions?
While THMs may be a contributing factor to birth outcomes, there are several other risk factors involved. However, Nova Scotia's Medical Officer of Health still recommends that pregnant women be aware of the THM levels in their water, and take steps to reduce their THM intake.


If I'm worried about THM levels in my water supply, what can I do?
The easiest way to reduce or eliminate THMs in drinking water is to use a water pitcher with a carbon filter, install a tap-mounted carbon filter, or to use bottled water. When using a filter, check to verify that it is certified to remove THMs and follow replacement instructions recommended by the manufacturer. When using bottled water, check to verify that the supplier is a member of the Canadian Bottled Water Association or the International Bottled Water Association. Individuals may also want to keep the length of time spent in showers or baths to a minimum in areas with elevated levels of THMs in drinking water.


What if I have my own water well?
Most private well water supplies are not disinfected. The lack of chlorine disinfection means there should be no THMs present.


Why don't we simply stop chlorinating our drinking water?
Without adequate disinfection of our water supplies, the health risks from micro-organisms would far outweigh the risks from THMs. Drinking water is disinfected with chlorine to kill bacteria and viruses that can cause serious illnesses and deaths. In fact, chlorination of drinking water has virtually eliminated typhoid fever, cholera and many other diseases; it represents one of the greatest achievements of public health protection.

That whole link with more is here: http://www.gov.ns.ca/nse/water/thm.asp

*** RO cont'd:

Excerpt:

"Around the world, household drinking water purification systems, including a reverse osmosis step, are commonly used for improving water for drinking and cooking.
Such systems typically include a number of steps:
• a sediment filter to trap particles, including rust and calcium carbonate
• optionally, a second sediment filter with smaller pores
• an activated carbon filter to trap organic chemicals and chlorine, which will attack and degrade TFC reverse osmosis membranes
• a reverse osmosis (RO) filter, which is a thin film composite membrane (TFM or TFC)
• optionally, a second carbon filter to capture those chemicals not removed by the RO membrane
• optionally an ultra-violet lamp for disinfecting any microbes that may escape filtering by the reverse osmosis membrane"

http://en.wikipedia....Reverse_osmosis

If you want a real filtering system the above gives the best but still not perfect.

If your water was not created in a lab and dropped into your mouth then any contact with pipe, tubing, dirt, soil, rocks, plastic bottles etc. add something good or bad or neutral to the water.

Look folks when you have a lab and the background you can test your own water. But the magic tricks that people that sell the thousand dollar and up water filter and softening systems show you when they set up a water sample array in your house and then proceed to add things and tell you if this vial filled WITH YOUR WATER turns cloudy/red/blue/black or turns a paper a different color and you believe them, well, you earned it, spend it any way you want. I can do most of that same magic show on your water after they install the filter systems. And get the same results after installation with a 50 dollar sediment and charcoal filter array. (UNLESS! It is a long exposure UV radiation and RO with distillation and started off with sediment and charcoal fast flows to feed it.) That also excepts water softening. I detest soft water that takes a year to get soap off in the shower. I don't want mineralized water that makes spots that are next to impossible to remove, like in Azirona. (sp. int.) Just after soaping up I want it rinsed off fast. I had to live with softened water several times in our career and don't like it. I like it in the middle, not too hard and not too soft. I definitely don't like softened water from softeners but that is just me. Others do and that is just preference.

Safe Travels! (And water)

Edited by RV, 21 April 2012 - 01:19 PM.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998

When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius


#18 RV

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 01:47 PM

To isolate the bottled water question from the rest here are the quality standards that the International Bottled Water Association (IBWA) says it holds its members to. Bottled water is allowed to have everything allowed in municipal/public water supplies including the exact same amount as they have. If one has more than that they need to be reported whether a municipal/public or bottled water. This is the latest revision dated March 2012. If you scroll down to page 18, and read through through the rest of Appendix A you will see that they have the same stuff in the water as tap water in the U.S. and Canada. But what really amazes me is the fact that even they can't agree with themselves and contradict themselves. For example they say that they exceed the EPA and FDA standards in e.coli, allowing none, and then on page 21 of the Appendix A and throughout it they say that if the water source the bottler uses is a monitored source with published results that they do not have to test their own water. The only problem with that is that the FDA and EPA allow a few e.coli in water! On one page they say none in theirs allowed, and then on page 21 of that appendix A that no testing is necessary of a bottler's product if the water supply they get their water from is in line with EPA guidelines, which are looser than the FDA, and do include an allowable amount of e.coli in the water supply.?? Hmmmm.

So if you do drink bottled water first you need to check if your bottler is even a member of the IBWA, and hope that it isn't like other CYA memberships that many of us in business know about. Then read appendix A in the following link and the pages I drew attention to in it. That is, at best, what you get and it has all the same things in it, except possibly added antimicrobials (antibiotics). Now if they have 0 microbes why are they adding antibiotics to kill them? OK so they achieve none with antibiotics, then why this quote on page 16:

"When the label or labeling of a bottled water product states or implies (e.g., through
label statements or vignettes with references to infants) that the bottled water is for use
in feeding infants, and the product is not commercially sterile under §113.3(e)(3)(i) of
this chapter, the product's label shall bear conspicuously and on the principal display
panel the statement "Not sterile. Use as directed by physician or by labeling directions
for use of infant formula." "


Table 1 on page 22 shows the fluoride levels allowed in bottled water.

Now that is from the International association for the bottlers of bottled water.

Here is the link from the IBWA's own code of practice I just wrote this from, and is current as of last month:

http://www.bottledwa...-2012-FINAL.pdf

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998

When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius


#19 RV

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 01:52 PM

What is a person to do? :o :blink: :unsure: Short answer? :rolleyes:

1. Don't drink chunky water, regardless of the size of the chunks.

2. Drink only from municipal and public water supplies in the U.S. and Canada. South of our border you are on your own.

3. Filter for taste as needed, repeat as necessary. (multiple filters)

4. Follow doctor's orders for specific water purity needs.

5. Buy whatever you want! If it makes you feel better, do it!

;) B)

Edited by RV, 21 April 2012 - 01:55 PM.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998

When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius


#20 Les Richards

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:39 PM

Thank you for the discussion on water and filters. It is helpful.

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