16 replies to this topic

[GzrGldGeo]

Houston Chronical Article about RV Gate Guards

I hope some of you get some of this $2M.

[TheForkInTheRoad]

I work for GGS and love the job, so far. I have no issue with the wages. I signed the contract and knew what I'd have to save for taxes, etc. I was self-employed receiving 1099's for 25 years as a trainer. I don't want to lose the job. I do think that our position is easier than some of the other gate guards. It all changes so much depending on locale and which oil company you work with.

[HJ]

This is a big deal in the trucking industry,one example was the controversy at FedEx.

[The Texan]

Bert, the owner of GGS is a mega millionaire and has said that he will fight this government attempt to intrude into his business with everything he has, so I bet we will continue as independent contractors for years to come. I know that I won't do the work as an employee under contract and many others won't either. A good example is TimeKeepers, another gate guard company that caved in and now acts as an employer. They are now having major problems finding "employees" to work for them as they now require a contract. This is very good and easy work for a reasonable pay and this will be our 5th year returning to Texas and the job.

Just another government attempt to control our lives and introduce the socialism way of life to us. I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where it says I can't work as an independent contractor, if I desire.

[TheForkInTheRoad]

To the Texan-- I appreciate your input as I really don't know much about the company except what we've experienced. I'd like to think that this job is a little bit secure, but of course, in this economy, that's wishful thinking, whether it's accurate or not. Thanks.

[harry bellerby]

This is not something new. I had a couple of business and used independent contractors, Ther are several rules you have to follow. The biggest and the one that draws the most attention is the requierment that the contractor set their own hours. If the employers set the hours the Dept of Labor sees them as employees.To fight it you have to have deep pockets.
c u on the road

Edited by harry bellerby, 28 August 2011 - 10:17 AM.

[The Texan]

This is not something new. I had a couple of business and used independent contractors, Ther are several rules you have to follow. The biggest and the one that draws the most attention is the requierment that the contractor set their own hours. If the employers set the hours the Dept of Labor sees them as employees.To fight it you have to have deep pockets.
c u on the road

That is where the government is having problems proving their case. GGS and all the other companies DO NOT set the hours, the oil companies and ranches ask that you work a certain number of hours, BUT you are free to accept those hours or to move on to another gate. Just because you set at the gate in your RV with full hookups, does NOT mean you are working. We have never been told we can NOT go to town to shop, wash clothes or eat, so the government is trying to say things that are not true. In fact, we have worked gates where the actual pay for HOURS WORKED was $125+/hr and in one case actually exceeded $1000/hr, as we did not see a person or vehicle for weeks. This whole mess was started by a disgruntled person that was terminated by GGS for failure to follow the rules of NO alcohol on site. He tried working drunk and was fired, so he went to the wage and hour board as retaliation.

[John & Diane]

terminated by GGS for failure to follow the rules of NO alcohol on site.

Seriously, No Alcohol On Site?


This is news to me. Obviously, we'd never drink while on duty, but if I wanted a glass of wine after my shift, and my partner had taken over...are you saying that's not allowed?????

[The Texan]

Seriously, No Alcohol On Site?


This is news to me. Obviously, we'd never drink while on duty, but if I wanted a glass of wine after my shift, and my partner had taken over...are you saying that's not allowed?????

The oil companies have a very rigid rule of "no alcohol on site", mainly for the rig crews in the crew house, including the company mans trailer. Now. do they come into your house and look for alcohol, not unless you give them a reason to, as that particular person did. We have had the company man come set in our RV and have a beer with us, WHEN we sat outside of the lease proper, but never when we were on the actual lease site. It boils down to using a little common sense and knowing what the rules are. Some of the basic rules on all lease sites are; no alcohol. no guns or other offensive weapons, no animals, proper safety equipment when inside the work zone, etc. Again, all are just common sense rules for the safety of all. The no animals is another that is not enforced unless you allow your dog to run free inside the work zone, then you are asked to leave, as some have already found out.

[John & Diane]

Thanks for the info Texan.



Take away my dogs, my guns, and an occasional drink and life sounds pretty dull ~ LOL!

[MARTY & POOKIE]

The hype that has been made over this lawsuit concerning whether gate guards are employees or contractors will have to be settled by the courts and that usually means in these matters the government's position usually holds out because their determination or labor department issue is opinion held also by the judge.

"At the end of the day, the question will be whether they're independent contractors," said Sullivan, who regularly represents clients in wage and hour disputes. And companies typically lose, he added, citing the Labor Department's high rate of success in cases it brings.

I work in the oil field both offshore and onshore and I am watching this issue since when I retire in a few years I would like to have the opportunity to earn some extra money and supplement my retirement. My experience in Pennsylvania is the gate guards were all paid by the hour and all work an eight hour shift with only a small hut to get out of the weather. The difference between being a 1099 contractor and an employee has its tax advantages on both sites, first, a 1099 contractor can deduct his or hers living expenses and supplemental things such as telephones and cell phones, fuel and incidentals which come into play. Secondly, a disadvantage to being a 1099 employee or contractor is that you will have to furnish your own benefits and pay your portion of Social Security which is 7.65%. That being said, one must weigh the differences but since in Texas you come under the borrowed servant doctrine on independent contractor is usually included up on the insurance for project both workmen's comp, and liability. In other states liability for workman's comp and liability insurance can be the responsibility of the person who is performing the service.

If companies are forced to to pay minimum wage at the very least, which is $7.75 an hour, which if each person took a 12 hour watch or tour (pronounced tower in oilfield slang) this would mean a 40 hour regular work week with 44 extra hours being over time for a total play being figured on 106 hours with the overtime which would bring up a check of $831 per week just about double what a gate guard gets now for two people. Now you run into another problem which is called per diem, that is usually $125 a day allowed per person for support activities that is to pay for habitation and supplies "food". Not to mention him that most gate guard companies also provide for water and electricity at a remote site by paying for a storage tank, a diesel generator and fuel. The gray conjecture is how this would now be handled if it should be rules be adopted. The increased costs of doing business will either manifest themselves in 2 ways, first, either limiting hours or setting a schedule with the person paid overtime should they have to open the gate after hours or or just making it to eight hour days for each person with a 56 hour workweek meaning the gate would be covered for 16 hours and then close for eight hours during the night and only open rarely and that person would be limited to charging one-hour call out for, time actually worked.

The contractor scenario is very prevalent in the oilfield labor movement, it is easier to classify folks working at remote sites as oilfield contractors and pay them with the 1099 any company involvement or entanglement and allowing for the person to actually pay all of their Social Security as self-employment tax, this saves companies a great deal of money and allows them to just simply cut a check and eliminate any responsibility to the person for taxes or other benefits. One of things it is not going in gate guards services as an observation is that other companies have adopted the Labor Department's position and this will most certainly come into play.

The fact that Texan it said this had been a disgruntled employee who was caught drinking on the job actually have a contradiction in the Houston Chronicle article as follows:

"The attendants are on site 24-hours a day and earn $100 to $175 a day. Nothing prevents them from hiring someone else to watch the gate, said Idalski. And nothing stops them from reading, watching television or even drinking beer while they're in their trailers."

And this contradicts everything in all the oilfield since every site I've ever been on does not allow first, firearms, secondly, illegal drugs, and thirdly, alcohol. Since there are a lot of great limitations on what a gate guard can do, who hires and who directs them, they should be an interesting development to the story, however I would hate to see it become so onerous that RVers would find themselves shut out of this market when in fact most RVers are wonderfully set up to provide this service and could do so at the greatest cost-effectiveness.

One point I would like to make out, I've always worked in the oil and gas industry since getting out of high school and even during college and afterwords and for people that say that this is not an environmentally friendly business shows a great lack of understanding of the business. One cannot stay in the oil business by making a mess you must be a steward of the resource and use it wisely for drop of oil spilled on the ground cannot be recovered usually and sold and folks if I can't sell it I can't make any money off of it. If you go to any of these drilling sites or production areas you will find no mess or unsightly clutter left behind. While a rig may not be pretty to you while it is drilling clanging iron and Loring pipe in and out of the hold it is music to our ears to work in the oil industry and I am proud to still be a part of the American oil energy scene. Even when I retire, I'll probably still want to keep my finger in the putting because hopefully if I can be a 90-year-old man I want to be able to tell those roughnecks, Sonny, is let me show you how it's done.

[The Texan]

Marty, I agree with all you have written and as you pointed out, the lawyer that was quoted in the article knew not of what he spoke, in regards to alcohol. The person that started this was outside his RV trying to work, while actually so drunk he was stumbling and slurring his speech. You are correct in that alcohol is a no no under any condition, but the company does not come looking inside your RV unless they have a reason. The same hold true for firearms, which most of us have. When the company came to his RV, on complaint of several sales people, they found him with alcohol in his hand, setting at his computer with a porn site clearly visible and on closer inspection they found guns in plain view and a couple of other violations. It is well known among us who work for GGS, who filed the complaint, as he went around to everyone he thought would listen and tried to get us to sign on the complaint with him. He had about 2 or 3 takers and they are also history now. The next logical step, if the government prevails, will be for the oil companies to hire their own gate guards and put them under the 12/12, 2 week system that most sites work and the RV would be considered the same as a crew house. As you said, this is going to be very interesting, as it plays out. I know Bert has very deep pockets and this is a business his Dad started years ago, that he is defending very strongly and we applaud him for it.

Edited by The Texan, 28 August 2011 - 02:43 PM.

[MARTY & POOKIE]

Bob,

Most folks outside the oil industry, really don't understand the industry. Bert, the owner of GGS, must be saluted for trying to defend what he is created but I'm afraid that this industry is changing faster than we can realize. With TK services agreeing to go emplyee base I don't see this having all real rosy outlook, here in Louisiana it was tried to pay security guard personnel working at Port Fourchon, Louisiana on a per diem basis as a 1099 contractor. The fallacy was compounded by the security company's owner claiming some of the similar items which were later shown to be indicative of being an employee instead of a contractor. All I can see happening is that everybody will be placed on a salary and less take-home play.

I don't see oil companies and/or drilling contractors hiring their own gate guards, due to the temporary nature of the work and the fact that you must have a security type license, it will probably still be cheaper to hire a security/gate guard company. I can see this probably going to an eight hour per day per person which means somebody working from from 5 AM to 1 PM and then somebody working from 1 PM to 9 PM with the gate locked after that it not open except for special occasions or persons and overtime pay. I could also see a salary system developed where the person would be paid on $125 per day per person with a per diem paid for the use of the RV with a deduction for water and generator.

Running off the other two or three persons would signed the petition was not one of the brighter things done, Bob, and have frankly I have seen I see personal experience where if the suit is a successful issue, then whistleblower provisions come into play and these can be quite costly. In another twist the competition could also be pushing this item to create an opportunity that hinders competition. Even with a deep pockets it does not make good sense in my book to get rid of these folks because they just keep making you a target. How well we know the government has deeper pockets than anybody. I wish Bert well in the lawsuit and I will be watching these developments I would rather be paid on 1099 where I can deduct some costs.

[The Texan]

Actually they didn't "fire" them, being independent contractors they had no work available for them, so they left on their own....LOL. I really think this will not be settled over night and will drag on for years. It is my understanding that the FedEx suit, which was settled in favor of FedEx has set some legal precedence in this arena and that is why things are now stalled in the courts. TK changed yes, but they also changed their entire system to make it legal under law as an employer, so again, it was not a straight capitulation, so who knows......I know that TK called us this summer and begged us to come back and work for them, as they were desperate for help and could not fill the positions, under their current setup. We will just continue to work for Bert and see where it goes, but at 70+ YOA i really don't expect to see a change in my lifetime.

[MARTY & POOKIE]

Actually they didn't "fire" them, being independent contractors they had no work available for them, so they left on their own....LOL. I really think this will not be settled over night and will drag on for years. It is my understanding that the FedEx suit, which was settled in favor of FedEx has set some legal precedence in this arena and that is why things are now stalled in the courts. TK changed yes, but they also changed their entire system to make it legal under law as an employer, so again, it was not a straight capitulation, so who knows......I know that TK called us this summer and begged us to come back and work for them, as they were desperate for help and could not fill the positions, under their current setup. We will just continue to work for Bert and see where it goes, but at 70+ YOA i really don't expect to see a change in my lifetime.

Well they just locked out the two employees, that's a convenient excuse for no work available. The FedEx suit really actually made most FedEx employees a gray area called the statutory employee which is an amalgamation of a contract employee/regular employee. Statutory employees are employees that have some characteristics of independent contractors and characteristics of an employee, a statutory employee gets a W-2 form and has Social Security and income taxes withheld but is able to file a schedule C and deduct expenses from his or her gross income. While waiting at the house this evening I was able to pull up the lawsuit on a judicial website and to say the least some of the arguments are novel. Probably angling that I saw this will probably be one of those lawsuits settled in the back room of the courthouse for a heck of a lot less than $2 million. It would behoove Bert to just go ahead and call everybody statutory employees and to throw a bone to the government and run from the federal litigators for nobody ever makes a dime while at the courthouse except for lawyers and you being ex-Leo probably know this very well. A statutory employee position would be most favorable to anybody who was working as a gate guard, it meets the IRS test and would keep the IRS at bay.

As far as lawsuits go you'll probably see this one settled within the next year due to the fact the federal docket in Victoria, Texas is probably believed to be less crowded. We will all be watching this to see how it turns out.