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Former Transmission Fluids Engineer (Allison Transmission)


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#1 hzjcm8

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 03:30 PM

Hi Folks,

I was invited to the forum by docj from another Good Sam forum. I retired from Allison Transmission (and GM) in 2009 and served as the Transmission Fluids Engineer for 20 years prior to my retirement. I was the father of TranSynd and I wrote the TES-295 and TES-389 specifications. I'm here to help answer any questions you might have on Allison Transmission fluid specifications and transmission fluids (or engine oils). How they get to market, how they're tested, how they get approved, what they contain, how they degrade, how to monitor degradation through oil analysis ........ etc, etc. etc.

Thanks !! I look forward to your interesting questions. Posted Image

Edited by hzjcm8, 17 June 2011 - 03:31 PM.

Thomas L. (Tom) Johnson
Former Transmission Fluids Engineer, Allison Transmission, Inc.
JG Lubricant Services, LLC
Website: www.jglubricantservices.com
Email: tjohnson@jglubricantservices.com




#2 Jim Auguston

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:31 PM

Hi Folks,

I was invited to the forum by docj from another Good Sam forum. I retired from Allison Transmission (and GM) in 2009 and served as the Transmission Fluids Engineer for 20 years prior to my retirement. I was the father of TranSynd and I wrote the TES-295 and TES-389 specifications. I'm here to help answer any questions you might have on Allison Transmission fluid specifications and transmission fluids (or engine oils). How they get to market, how they're tested, how they get approved, what they contain, how they degrade, how to monitor degradation through oil analysis ........ etc, etc. etc.

Thanks !! I look forward to your interesting questions. Posted Image



#3 Jim Auguston

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:34 PM

Great to have you here. I'll start you out. I was told Allison Transmission maximum safe fluid out to cooler temperature was 300 using Trans Syn. True or false?

Jim

#4 docj

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:45 PM

Hi Folks,

I was invited to the forum by docj from another Good Sam forum. I retired from Allison Transmission (and GM) in 2009 and served as the Transmission Fluids Engineer for 20 years prior to my retirement. I was the father of TranSynd and I wrote the TES-295 and TES-389 specifications. I'm here to help answer any questions you might have on Allison Transmission fluid specifications and transmission fluids (or engine oils). How they get to market, how they're tested, how they get approved, what they contain, how they degrade, how to monitor degradation through oil analysis ........ etc, etc. etc.

Thanks !! I look forward to your interesting questions. Posted Image


Welcome to the Escapees Forum. I know you will enjoy the technical exchange and we will definitely benefit from your knowledge.

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#5 hzjcm8

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:50 PM

Welcome to the Escapees Forum. I know you will enjoy the technical exchange and we will definitely benefit from your knowledge.

Joel



Thanks Joel. Good to be here.


Thomas L. (Tom) Johnson
Former Transmission Fluids Engineer, Allison Transmission, Inc.
JG Lubricant Services, LLC
Website: www.jglubricantservices.com
Email: tjohnson@jglubricantservices.com




#6 hzjcm8

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:52 PM

Jim Auguston,

330F out is maximum acceptable. So, 300F is OK. Posted Image

Edited by hzjcm8, 17 June 2011 - 04:58 PM.

Thomas L. (Tom) Johnson
Former Transmission Fluids Engineer, Allison Transmission, Inc.
JG Lubricant Services, LLC
Website: www.jglubricantservices.com
Email: tjohnson@jglubricantservices.com




#7 Big D

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 05:38 PM

That was going to be one of my questions about Max temp.....I learned something already.
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#8 Ed G

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 05:50 PM

Jim Auguston,

330F out is maximum acceptable. So, 300F is OK. Posted Image


I have a built DTT trans for may 99 dodge diesel are these numbers useful for that transmission thanks Ed
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#9 hzjcm8

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 06:06 PM

I have a built DTT trans for may 99 dodge diesel are these numbers useful for that transmission thanks Ed


Ed,

I'm not an expert on Dodge (Chrysler) transmissions but from what I know about testing and Chrysler specs, I'm guessing 300F is OK for max converter out (cooler in) temp. Transmissions in cars and trucks run a lot hotter than most people think. Mostly because they really "cram" components into a small space which often makes for really warm temperatures. Again, I'm only giving you my educated guess since it's not an Allison.



Thomas L. (Tom) Johnson
Former Transmission Fluids Engineer, Allison Transmission, Inc.
JG Lubricant Services, LLC
Website: www.jglubricantservices.com
Email: tjohnson@jglubricantservices.com




#10 Larry V

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 06:44 PM

Tom,

I have an Allison MD3060 6 speed in my Diesel RV. I tow lighter 4k to 5k trailers and heat stays around 175-180 range. How often should I drain my fluid and do you think synthetic would benefit me since we only drive around 5K a year currently? By the way, it's a great trans for rving. Thank You,

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#11 hzjcm8

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:51 PM

Tom,

I have an Allison MD3060 6 speed in my Diesel RV. I tow lighter 4k to 5k trailers and heat stays around 175-180 range. How often should I drain my fluid and do you think synthetic would benefit me since we only drive around 5K a year currently? By the way, it's a great trans for rving. Thank You,

Larry


Larry,

If you're running TranSynd, it's good for 300,000 miles (essentially fill for life). You'll still need to change filters at 75,000 mile intervals (if you're running the high capacity filters); but the oil itself will remain stable for that long. The only thing would be contamination from a coolant leak of from water ingestion through the breather. I'd put in TranSynd and new filters and then get $20 oil analysis twice per year to make sure it's not contaminated and you're home free.

Engines, of course, are different. But you should be able to get 12,000 or perhaps 18-24,000 miles on non-synthetic oil with oil analysis every 6,000 miles.



Thomas L. (Tom) Johnson
Former Transmission Fluids Engineer, Allison Transmission, Inc.
JG Lubricant Services, LLC
Website: www.jglubricantservices.com
Email: tjohnson@jglubricantservices.com




#12 Gambler

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 09:44 PM

Welcome to the forum Tom. I have a question: 2001 Allison motorhome transmission. Is it ok, not harmful, to overfill the fluid level in these?

Thanks!

Mac

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#13 Big D

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:48 PM

Can I also ask about using Non Allison filters (ie Fleetguard, Donaldson)? in most Motorhome applications. I know I have read about filter collaspse but is that really an issue with most wire supported filter elements?
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#14 hzjcm8

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 05:00 AM

Welcome to the forum Tom. I have a question: 2001 Allison motorhome transmission. Is it ok, not harmful, to overfill the fluid level in these?

Thanks!

Mac


Mac,

It's never a good idea to overfill an automatic transmission. The transmission has clutches (inside a clutch hub) that rotate with engine speed. These are commonly referred to as the "rotating clutches" as opposed to the other clutches that are fixed to the output shaft (stationary clutches). If the fluid is too high, it can get into the rotating clutches which can lead to foaming and frothing and possibly air entrainment. If foaming is excessive, the transmission can "spit" fluid out the dipstick tube making a fire hazard. So, check the level and make sure it's within the "hot" band.

Thomas L. (Tom) Johnson
Former Transmission Fluids Engineer, Allison Transmission, Inc.
JG Lubricant Services, LLC
Website: www.jglubricantservices.com
Email: tjohnson@jglubricantservices.com




#15 hzjcm8

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 05:07 AM

Can I also ask about using Non Allison filters (ie Fleetguard, Donaldson)? in most Motorhome applications. I know I have read about filter collaspse but is that really an issue with most wire supported filter elements?


Big D,

I would recommend you stick with Allison filters. I don't believe Allison has issued a specification for filter design and capability so you're taking a chance unless you do oil analysis and include particle count. Filter collapse "could" be an issue if the filter gets too full and the pressure drop across the filter (input pressure minus output pressure) gets too high. This causes excessive pressure on the outside of the filter. Pressure times area = force. So, as the pressure builds, so does the force exerted on the outside of the filter element. Eventually it would collapse. The other issue is media size. If the filter is too fine, it will load up too fast and cause you to change it more often. If the filter isn't fine enough, you could get particles in the system that can cause abrasive wear or valves to stick.

Filters are a science all by themselves.

Edited by hzjcm8, 18 June 2011 - 05:10 AM.

Thomas L. (Tom) Johnson
Former Transmission Fluids Engineer, Allison Transmission, Inc.
JG Lubricant Services, LLC
Website: www.jglubricantservices.com
Email: tjohnson@jglubricantservices.com




#16 George Stoltz

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 07:07 AM

Mac,

It's never a good idea to overfill an automatic transmission. The transmission has clutches (inside a clutch hub) that rotate with engine speed. These are commonly referred to as the "rotating clutches" as opposed to the other clutches that are fixed to the output shaft (stationary clutches). If the fluid is too high, it can get into the rotating clutches which can lead to foaming and frothing and possibly air entrainment. If foaming is excessive, the transmission can "spit" fluid out the dipstick tube making a fire hazard. So, check the level and make sure it's within the "hot" band.


How does one remove a pint or two from an Allison transmission?



George Stoltz



#17 hzjcm8

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 08:11 AM

How does one remove a pint or two from an Allison transmission?




George,

You can purchase a hand operated vacuum pump used for oil sampling or, if you have a mini-pump (drill attachment) you could use that. That would be the easiest way. Just attach tubing and put it down the dipstick tube and draw out the amount necessary to bring the oil level within the hot band. Be sure you do this on a level surface. A level surface will give you the most accurate reading.

Edited by hzjcm8, 18 June 2011 - 08:13 AM.

Thomas L. (Tom) Johnson
Former Transmission Fluids Engineer, Allison Transmission, Inc.
JG Lubricant Services, LLC
Website: www.jglubricantservices.com
Email: tjohnson@jglubricantservices.com




#18 George Stoltz

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 11:32 AM

Tom,

Is TranSynd flammable?
George Stoltz



#19 hzjcm8

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 12:04 PM

Tom,

Is TranSynd flammable?



George,

The Allison TES-295 specification (written by your's truly) requires a Flash Point of 235C (minimum). This means that if you heated it to 235C (455F) and then exposed it to an open flame in close proximity, it would flash the more volatile gases but it would not ignite and burn consistently until around 250C (482F). Because it's a complex blend of chemicals, there is a volatility curve associated with it. This means that there's a distribution of temperatures (starting at around 235C/455F) where chemicals reach their temperature of vaporization and will flash.

Make sense?Posted Image

Edited by hzjcm8, 18 June 2011 - 12:05 PM.

Thomas L. (Tom) Johnson
Former Transmission Fluids Engineer, Allison Transmission, Inc.
JG Lubricant Services, LLC
Website: www.jglubricantservices.com
Email: tjohnson@jglubricantservices.com




#20 George Stoltz

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 02:32 PM

Tom,

As clear as high school chemistry. At which, by the way, I didn't do so well.
George Stoltz