Introduction and a question Options

[Matt W]

Hi, folks! I'm a potential fulltimer and wanted to introduce myself. I've been lurking here for a month or so and decided to ante up for an Escapees membership and start participating.

My fulltiming situation might be a less typical than some. I'm in my thirties (although I won't be able to say that much longer) and am in work situation that doesn't restrict my location. I've always been a little restless and the idea of working from the road for at least part of the year has been a persistent itch in the back of my mind for quite a while now, but I've never really explored the possibility until the last few months. If you'd care to hear the longer version of how I arrived at this point, feel free to check out my blog (http://blog.welchkin.net). There's only a few posts there at the moment, but I hope to keep it updated as this process unfolds. It's mostly there are a way to keep my family and friends updated with what's going on so the tone of it might be a bit odd to a stranger.

So that's the intro. Here's the question. I have an opportunity to purchase a 2007 36' Teton Homes Liberty FW that was only used twice for weekend trips (long and unfortunately tragic story behind that). I know that Tetons have had a good reputation in the past as fulltimer FWs, but while perusing some of the various RV forums around the net, I ran across a couple of instances where some folks felt that the units that Teton put out in the year or two before they closed had dropped in quality quite a bit. I'd be curious to get your opinions on this. Purchasing a FW from a company that no longer exists is already a slight downer on the deal, but I'd hate to make an even worse mistake by basing my purchase on a good reputation that ended up not applying to the model year I was getting.

Thanks!

This post has been edited by Watter: Jan 5 2010, 04:47 PM

[Nick Russell]

Watter,
I'm afraid that I can't offer you any help with your puchase decision, but I did want to welcome you to Escapees and to the forum.

[grumpydoc]

Watter, we ordered an '08 Teton 40' Experience at the Hershey PA show in late '07. We took delivery in Feb '08 and have put about 15K miles on it. We are currently in So. TX for the winter. We have been very satified with this rig,it is much better in terms of workmanship and materials than our prior unit. The few problems we have had were related to things like the fridge, the slide toppers and commode seal, all of which were coverd by the manufactures warranty. I would not let a late production model stop me from buying if everything else met your parameters to buy. I would say that price, condition, floor plan and options would be more important factors. New Tetons really went up in price the last few years and the asking price of some of the late model uses units may be more than their true value. Last point I'd like to make is these units are very heavy! I had a FL M2 106 with the small Mercedes 330 hp engine and it was not enough to run up the big hills. Bought one of Waylands FL M2 112 with the big Mercedes 450/1650 engine and it is much more capable truck for this size RV. Safe travels, Jay and Kathy

[Kirk]

Matt,

I'll add my welcome to the Escapees forums.

On the subject of the fifth wheel, let me endorse what Grumpydoc has already said about the weight. As you look at this trailer you need to realize what it will take to tow it safely. Do you already have a truck, or will you be shopping for one? If not, then you could buy the trailer and use the weights of it to determine what you will buy to tow it with. But if you already have a truck and plan to use that, you must first check the weight ratings of your truck and base the choice of trailer on your truck's ability.

Keep in mind that many smaller trucks may be able to move the trailer, but can they stop it if there is an emergency, or control it as you come down a mountain grade?

[RVRoadTrip]

I'm of no help, but welcome to the forum!

[Gambler]

Hi Matt,

Welcome to Escapees! I'm no help on the RV, but I've been fulltime for 5+ years and I have a regular full time job that I do with internet and cell phone. Check our our blog below.

Happy travels!

Mac

[Matt W]

That's great information, Grumpydoc! Hearing from someone who had a similar unit is exactly what I was hoping for.

As far as the tow vehicle, yes I'm aware that even a 1 ton wouldn't cut it as a safe tow vehicle for fifth wheels in this weight class. While I think I could stomach a F450/F550 size vehicle, I have some reservations about a larger MDT or HDT tow vehicle. Maybe it's just a mental block I'll have to get over, but I really have a hard time seeing myself using a larger, International/Freightliner-style, MDT or HDT for my daily driver. This is one of the factors playing into my fifth wheel vs. motorhome decision. I talk about this a little more on my blog today.

I didn't realize that my login name would show up as the profile name in my posts, so that's why "Watter" was there. It's now the more mundane "Matt W". Thanks for welcome posts!

[Matt W]

Welcome to Escapees! I'm no help on the RV, but I've been fulltime for 5+ years and I have a regular full time job that I do with internet and cell phone. Check our our blog below.

I'll definitely check it out as that would be my exact situation as well. Thanks!

[Tony & Pamela]

Matt, welcome to the forum. Check out the MDT and HDT section of the forum. Truck size, advantages/disadvantages get discussed often. You will find a number of folks whose daily driver is their truck and several who tow a car or truck behind their trailer. You would need to be sure your trailer is designed to tow if that was your choice.

While we have a Honda CRV we use for a daily driver, I can tell you from owning many regular trucks over the years the foot print of my MDT is no larger than a 550. Turns better too.

[grumpydoc]

Matt, we looked at class 4 & 5 trucks and decided they would not do the job. Let me first state that this is just my opinion and I am not a truck proessional/expert. Class 4-5 trucks in general have the same size engine as class 2-3, just a different rear end and suspension to get the weight rating up, Its torque that gets you up the hill and it takes a lot!!(1500+ ft-lbs for a 20K RV). So first you need to know what the RV weighs. Secondly most cl. 4-5 trucks lack a true Jacobson(jake) engine brake. You really really want one when you start down a 6-7% grade! Yea, I know the disc brakes on my Teton will stop the trailer, but its not if but when someday you will loss you trailer brakes and have to depend on the truck to stop the entire 35K rig. Then there are other issues like air brakes vs hydraulic brakes, air ride suspension, 22.5 tires vs 19.5, 240 gal of fuel vs what ever is in a 450/550, Allison 3000 tranny vs what ever is in a cl 4-5, usually a better turning radius(wheel cut) than any 4X4 truck of any class, the GMC cl 4-5 no longer being made, and probably some other things I'm forgetting. Regarding the apparent size difference , both my Freightliners were the same width as any dually cl3,4 0r5. It just the same width all the way from the front to the back instead of jus in the back at the rear axle. So if you can get a 350 dually through a hole my FL will go! My 3500 GMC Dually was 22' long my FL 112 is 23' 6". The big difference is in height, my FL is 9-6 tall. I see this as mostly an advantage driving down the road. The view up here is really nice. I will drive my FL bobtail anywhere I would my 3500 dually except places with low overhead clearance. Another issue is liscencing the truck. Fortunately in VA where we live private RVs are exempt from CDL regulations and my FL is licensed as a private truck. Requirements in your state of residence may vary. A final issue of course is budget. There's no question, that usually converting a used HDT will get you the most torque for the dollar. But there are a lot of very nice used MDTs out there right now and one might fit in your budget. Lastly if you want new and your budget allows look at the RV haulers at 2L custom trucks. Wayland is building some awsome trucks and there are several here on the MDT forum. If you how any more question please post back and someone will try to give some feedback, safe travels, Jay and Kathy

[grumpydoc]

Matt, just looked at your sig and saw that you list Sugarland, Texas. I looke at the map and see that is just west of Houstin. 2L is in Poolville Tx just west of Dallas/Ft Worth. You might want to go up and look at some real MDT haulers. Jay

[Stanley P. Mille...]

I don't know if you could stand the ride on a bobtail 450 or 550, put up with the engine noise from the low gearing or be happy with their power levels when towing. Get a ride from someone both bobtail and towing a heavy trailer and decide before you find out what many MDT and HDT owners did. They hated the truck and selling it left a crater in the retirement fund.

[Matt W]

That's great information about the trucks. It gives me a lot to think about.

[Paul T]

Matt,

If the Teton meets your needs, I would not hesitate to buy it. I have a early '08 built 36' Liberty Experience. There have been some build issues but it is a great rig. Excellent design for fulltiming and top quality components. As far as being an orphan rig the Teton owners group - Teton Club International - is an active and very supportive group. Many of them use the Yahoo Teton group at http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tetoners/. You will find a lot of information there. If you purchase the Teton, join TCI as the forum has a wealth of information and members are very helpful.
I also agree with grumpydoc on seriously considering a larger truck if you get the Teton. Mine weights 19K loaded and I'm single so I don't carry as much as a couple would. A pickup will pull it but with that much weight you can get the tail wagging the dog, reliability issues and going down long mountain grades can be very stressful. If you are just traveling from north to south and back again for the seasons it may do the job but if you will be traveling fulltime around the country an MTD or HTD is a much safer choice.
I also have a 2L Custom Truck M2-112 with the 450/1650 Mercedes and the 3 position jake brake. It may seem like overkill but knowing you can handle most any situation is very comforting.
Safe Travels!

[grumpydoc]

Matt, agree with PaulT re the Teton Club International(TCI). We joined and went to one of their rallys and had a wonderful time and learned a lot of valuble info. For one thing there is someone in the club thats "been there, done that". Someone knew how/where to solve the problems that come with an "orphan" RV. Even though Teton is out of business so to speak all of the personnel that worked for them are still around and many of them are still in the RV business. Some are still in the Cody, WY area doing repair business. There are members of TCI that can tell you how to get in touch with people if you should ever need their service. If everything else suits you don't let the Orphan status of Tetons stop you from buying what is a really nice RV. Safe travels, Jay and Kathy

[marnindale]

hard time seeing myself using a larger, International/Freightliner-style, MDT or HDT for my daily driver



We tow a NH 39' 5er which is also very heavy and we use a FL Sportchassis which has a jake brake and economy mode, etc. We use our FL as our main drive and have no had no problems with it. At every campground we have been to, everyone knows who we are right away. If we will be doing city sightseeing or taking some longer drives, we will rent a car for a day or two.

DH is the driver and he says he has to be careful to remember he's pulling the 5er when on the highways. When we first started out, we lost our trailer brakes due to a blown tire and the truck handled everything (plus my DH is a fantastic driver).

We got a great deal on our FL and even with necessary repairs we have still saved money over buying new. What we are finding is that as the truck is 5 years old, we had to replace some electrical stuff (and get new truck tires due to age, not wear).

BTW, DH put on cameras on back of truck (to make hook-up easier and for additional driving safety when just driving the truck) and back of 5er (for driving safety). It has been a big help.

Good luck and welcome.

[Dobie Lover]

Matt,
We have a 2003 Teton Grand Laramie 36' and we pull it with a MDT, a 2003 Freightliner Sportchassis. Our trailer weighs 18,000 lbs and we initially had a Ford 550. The Ford would pull it, but stopping was questionable. The MDT made all the difference. It pulls and stops the Teton with ease. Plus, the turning radius of the MDT is wonderful. I much prefer driving the MDT versus the Ford. I would definitely recommend going with the MDT or HDT for this size trailer. Just my opinion.

Dobie Lover

[Matt W]

Many of the folks responding to this thread appear to have made a significant investment in their fifth wheel and hauler. I'd be curious to hear if when you were approaching that investment, you considered motohomes as well, and if so, what led to you choosing fifth wheels instead. I know all the major fifth wheel vs motorhome talking points and there's no need to rehash that, but what were the key points in your specific case? Every person has things that are important to them that might not be as important to others and what actually turns out to be important in the long run might be different than what someone as inexperienced as myself might think.

[jlb27537]

Matt,

10 years ago, when we started fulltimming, we had a F350 and a 16,000lb 5th. After spending about $5K on upgrades, it pulled and stopped OK. But after 6 years we got tired of sight seeing in a DRW truck. Also we wanted to start spending time in places our 54' of truck and trailer would not fit. We bought a 35' M/H and a Honda CRV. Perfect for us. M/H is more self contained, larger fluid capacities, easier to set up and level, I can get into places I could not before, and now sight see in a car instead of a truck. Works for us.

Jim

[Dobie Lover]

Matt,
We started camping (way back when) with a small TT and my husband's pickup. As he advanced his pickups, we just advanced to 5thwheels. He used his pickups for transportation back/forth to work, while I had a car. We didn't want a motorhome at that time because it would be a 3rd engine, transmission, etc. to maintain. After retirement and starting to fulltime, we continued to like the space and floorplans of 5thwheels. And, we don't mind driving our MDT as an only vehicle. It all boils down to what fits your lifestyle and you.

Dobie Lover