Marginal WIFI Options

[eastcentralmn]

I found this site while looking for ham radio gear. Parks with wifi don't usually have the best reception in all the corners of their parks and it seems we get one of the marginal sites. Their booster gear seems to be reasonably priced. Travel safe!

http://www.jefatech.com/c=QNmeQ7n3KZGYGQuc...it_for_RVs.html

[Mark & Dale ...]

For not much more, you can get the CPE (Customer Premises Equipment) gear and have a better set up.

The above linked equipment puts an antenna extension cable from a router to an antenna mounted on the roof. You have to feed the antenna extension cable up to the roof and those cables come with rather large ends on them (i.e. big holes).

By using CPE equipment (ex: our installation) you only have to feed a Cat-5 cable (computer LAN cable) which is less than a 1/4" in diameter and the ends are easily installed after the cable is run. With the Cat-5 cable, you have the flexibility of up to over 300' feet to get from your router to the CPE radio on the roof. The cable from the CPE radio needs to only be a couple of feet.

The shorter the antenna cable, the less signal loss you will incur.

[BrianT]

Not trying to take anything away from Mark or Dale (?) but I've gone down a similar road to what you originally suggested.

I bought one of the linksys wifi routers like in your advertisement, only it did not have anything other than the standard antennas that normally come with the router.

Actually, it turned out to be something that worked well for us for a good while.

At the last park we stayed in, the wifi signal wasn't typically available anywhere but within the first 150 feet or so of the office. Apparently, they had a regular old router in the office and that was their version of "free wifi". If you wanted to park close to the office, it worked pretty well most of the time.

But we did not like parking there. It was crowded, congested and noisy. So we moved farther back into the park and ended up maybe 600 feet or so from the office. At that distance, our computers didn't usually even see the campground signal when looking for available networks and even on a very good day when we could see it, connecting and actually using the internet was nigh unto impossible.

So, I decided to try one of the wifi routers. I had an old linksys that I was able to install the dd-wrt programming onto just to try it out. It worked. But the router died shortly thereafter. (It was old, and I was surprised it lasted as long as it had. It didn't owe me anything.) I got a new one off of ebay and was back in business.

The only time I had to deal with reception issues was when we'd get a bunch of big motorhomes in between us and the office. And then, it would have been nice to have an outside antenna, mostly for some vertical height. But I never did get one. That setup worked for us about 95% of the time we were at that particular park. Much of the time, the router was parked in a cabined out of sight and was moved a couple of times because of the location of someone else parked in between.

Maybe not the setup everyone would be happy with. But I think it may have it's place for some. If you're just on the fringes of having wifi, it might just do the job. If you're expecting to go way out in the boonies and connect to the wifi a way off in the distance, you'll probably be disappointed.

Just my 2 cents, from someone who's actually done it.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.

Brian

[Jack Mayer]

Brian, in the situation you describe a USB wifi adaptor on the roof of your rig with a USB extension cable would likely do the same job, without the network knowledge required to modify and manage a router. I say "likely" because it clearly will not put out the power that the modified router will if you set it up that way. But for 500-600 ft I havehad good luck with just a "normal" adaptor on the roof.

[BrianT]

Hi Jack,

I'm not at the rv park mentioned anymore. We're out of wifi range of any kind I'm aware of. Working with an air card now, through a Cradlepoint 350. So far, I think we'll keep the setup, but we do have an inline amplifier on it's way.

Not sure if I got a bad unit or not, but I did try a USB setup on the roof of the rv in the previous park setup. I never could get it to work. But the router setup did good for us. Plus, it was easy getting more than one computer online, very much like we'd been doing for years.

It would be interesting to try out one of the CPE setups, haven't done that yet. That would be more like the ultimate setup. I forget what I paid for the wifi router, but I think it was something like $70. All the air card stuff, though, is getting a little expensive...

It's fun!! :-)

All that said, though, I'm not sorry I bought the wifi router.

Brian

This post has been edited by BrianT: Aug 30 2009, 08:50 PM

[Jack Mayer]

Brian, no doubt the routers are fun to play with if you enjoy that stuff. But for MOST people in an RV park reception situation the USB adaptor works 95% of the time. Of course, it does not give you a local hotspot. But for $50 for most people it works well.

For just a little more ($70-80) a PepWave Surf works well. This does provide a local hotspot as well as better signal capture. It does require some network knowledge, but less than setting up a modified router. It does not work as well as a Deliberant CPE - which is really carrier-grade equipment -but it does work much better than a USB adaptor on the roof. Again, this is intended for "local" signal capture. Not from a source a mile away.

[BrianT]

Cool!! I had never seen a PepWave setup. I like it! Kinda makes my old router look... old and outdated. Oh, the wonderful toys out there! LOL!!

Actually, I'm going to be visiting my parents up north in a couple of weeks and I know they're next door to my older brother, who has a nice DSL connection my parents would love to share. It's too far for a normal setup so I'm gonna try my Linksys router there, kinda like I did in the rv park. If it works, (I think it will) I'll just give it to them. It's not much to maintain once set up. And that may give me an opportunity at some point to buy a new toy!!

:-)

Brian

[Alfa38User]

Brian,

You did not say how far away the two places in question were but I successfully used this set up last winter using someones open router connection with a Cable fed access point. The distance was a bit too far for a reliable connection using my lowly laptop but setting up the Linksys 54G (dd-wrt firmware) as shown here:

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Wireless_Bridge

It worked very well. My router was placed in a window in the bedroom of the 5thWheel and my laptop in the back. I put in WPA2 protection on my segment once set up and upped the power output on the router a bit but, of course, the incoming signal is as it is!!

If the same signal is available next winter I will use this setup again, likely adding this antenna mod to it.:

http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/template2/index.html

(I would like to substitute heavier aluminum pie plates or similar material in place of the foil covered cardboard.)

This post has been edited by Alfa38User: Aug 31 2009, 10:05 AM

[ejeffas]

My brain just fried....

I am just out of reach of a wireless router in the office. My desktop computer has built in wireless. I have a wireless access point in my box o' stuff from the house. Can I use this to boost my signal if it supports bridging?

I am in a borrowed RV and can't really modify it to put an antenna on the roof.

[Stanley P. Mille...]

It depends on the access point, some offer that as a feature or will allow you to load new software that will do it. Not too sure how it would work with the park's security setup or how happy they'd be with you running a bridge though.

What we have done is to use a wireless router with custom firmware to connect to the WiFi network and Ethernet to connect to the router (no incoming WiFi connections supported - no SSID broadcast) avoiding anything the park could object to. You can put the router in a plastic tote on your roof or stick it on a pole in a waterproof bag without much problem unless it is really hot outside, then you need some ventilation.

[jaymac5684]

I use the Wi-Fire which is a USB adapter. It boost my signal strength and provides more wireless connection hotspots for me to connect to. It's a great product that I bought from microcenter, hField Technologies actually makes the product. It's unbelievable the distance I can be away from my access point and still connect at a great fast signal. Check it out. Just throwing an idea out there for ya. Let me know what you think!

Happy camping

Jay

[Brian]

I haven't camped a lot in campgrounds that have WiFi but the ones I have been in the reception was spotty. I was looking at the JefaTech antenna and router and it looked like the solution if it is easy to use. Is this type of setup basically plug and play or is there work to do everytime it is setup? The WiFire looked good also but it would have to be re adjusted when the computer moved. We are retiring next year and I want some type of setup that will work as we move around. We want our computers to work so we can email and do online business when we travel and nothing is worse than a weak or non existant WiFi signal. What do you guys that have been in lots of campsites think? Is the JefaTech the answer, overkill or overpriced for what I need? Please don't put any technical words in the reply.
Brian

[patty98311]

I have used the Linksys repeater setup in several places and presently use at at me home (I really like this type of setup as it will extend your range out as far as how ever many repeaters you have in place). One place it will not work is if the park wifi will not connect to a Linux software system. The park we are at here in Wa will not connect to any repeater/computer not running Xp sp2 or higher(tried a Netbook running Ut(Linux), not able to connect) as the dd-wrt is linux software.

[Jack Mayer]

The Linksys repeaters work well on a home system where you control everything. I have found them to be less than desireable on random park wifi systems. On MANY systems they are not compatible with the APs. Just my experience.

For a SIMPLE system I still like the PepWave Surf.

[Brian]

The system from JefaTech says it uses the Linksys router for hardware but it has it's own software on the router. It also says it works on all systems. I am just concerned that WiFi is "line of site" and if I am out of site a system that has an inside antenna or a lower antenna might not work. I read the info on the PepWave surf and it looks good but I am concerned about the line of site issue. As I said I have nothing but a laptop now and I want to buy something that will work the best in all situations.

This post has been edited by Brian: Nov 3 2009, 06:54 PM

[norsea]

The system from JefaTech says it uses the Linksys router for hardware but it has it's own software on the router. It also says it works on all systems. I am just concerned that WiFi is "line of site" and if I am out of site a system that has an inside antenna or a lower antenna might not work. I read the info on the PepWave surf and it looks good but I am concerned about the line of site issue. As I said I have nothing but a laptop now and I want to buy something that will work the best in all situations.

Brian,

Wifi signals travel in a straight line, and weak radio signals do not pass through metal. As a result, any object that is between the point of origin of the wifi signal and the receiver will impair the quality of the signal. The weaker the signal being broadcast, the more susceptible it is to signal degradation. Given that wifi signals are broadcast at a very weak level as dictated by federal regulations wifi signals can easily be impaired.

Through my own testing I have determined that the vast majority of wifi signals that I am able to receive when inside my aluminum Airstream travel trailer are reflected signals. That is, they are not coming into my trailer directly from the antenna that is broadcasting them, but they are being reflected (bounced) by another object, be it another RV, a building, a tree, etc., etc. and must enter through a window or skylight.

Over the course of the past two years that we have been traveling full time in our 30' Classic I have approached the weak wifi signal issue with multiple solutions.

But, I finally found a vendor that has a solution to the problem. That vendor is Jefa Tech Wireless Technology Solutions.

I have tried just about everything in an attempt to bring wifi signals into our metal trailer.

It was not until free firmware was developed that could be installed on various vendors hardware in place of the firmware that the vendors shipped was the solution I craved at hand.

What I needed was the ability to have an external antenna that was capable of picking up weak wifi signals and then repeating the signal inside our trailer with the repeater obtaining a network (IP) address using DHCP.

This way we could use the wifi built into out computers and not need additional wifi cards or usb solutions that had us tethered to something which, in our opinion, negated the whole reason for the wifi - for the computer to not have wires connected to it for a network connections.

With the advent of dd-wrt firmware that could replace the firmware that shipped with various vendors routers it is now possible to reconfigure a router so that it can not only operate as a repeater but that it can do so using DHCP for obtaining its network (IP) address; a fixed IP address was no longer needed for a router to be configured as a repeater.

This means that my router reconfigured as a repeater is capable of getting its address from the router in the RV park. If the RV park network is password protected the router can easily be configured to use the password and get connected.

We each can connect our two computers to our router configured as a repeater in our trailer and it passes us through to the network. As far as the RV park router is concerned there is one device making the connection and it sees only the MAC address for our router/repeater.

If the park has a web page that must be accessed and user id and/or password entered it will appear in our browser the same as if we were connecting directly to the RV park network.

The even better news for us if the park is charging a fee for access is that we only pay the fee once, for the MAC address for our router/repeater. Any number of computers connected to our repeater can then access the network.

This is NOT something that any RV park operator who is charging for network access will be happy about and I have seen a few web pages pop up for RV parks that have discovered people who have been operating their router/repeater without passwords being needed to gain access through it to the network. They state that they will evict anyone so doing from their facility. Seems fair given that they are charging for a service and I suspect that doing this would be considered fraud; but lets not discuss that issue here please.

In order to gain access to our router/repeater you must have the user-id and password. This means our router/repeater is secure whereas the ones operating in the above example had no user-id or password and anyone receiving the signal could connect through it to the network.

In the initial stages of dd-wrt firmware availability it was strictly a DIY project for replacing the firmware on your router with the dd-wrt firmware. This is not a task for the networking novice.

But, now Jefa Tech is offering a turn key package of a Linksis router with the dd-wrt firmware installed and configured for use as a repeater, with cable and external antenna and documentation.

The documentation is excellent and it walks you through the set up process for both password protected networks and open networks. This is all that is needed to use the router because it comes preconfigured from Jefa Tech as a repeater and is ready to be used.

Call them on the phone to order and be sure to tell them you want it configured as a repeater. Also, be prepared to provide the length of cable that you will need between the location for your router installation and your antenna.

Another plus for the Linksys router supplied is that it runs on 12V DC. It comes with a 110V power unit. We set our up to run on the 12V DC power in our trailer so we can use it without the power unit; this is especially nice when boon-docking, as we were at the Balloon Fiesta in Albuquerque earlier this year (no hookups) for connecting to the free wifi the city provides.

We have been using it in our aluminum trailer for the past three months with great success.

For my antenna pole I purchased a telescoping boat hook from West Marine and removed the rubber grip and the hook. This left me with a three section telescoping aluminum pole.

I mounted the antenna to a piece of PVC that has the same inside diameter as the outside diameter of the smallest section of the boat hook pole with a cap on the PVC, for what I hope are obvious reasons.

I raise the antenna as high up as needed to give me line of sight between my antenna and the RV park antenna. This often times means higher than the 14 foot high motor homes and/or 5th wheels parked adjacent to us.

The pole slips nicely into either a flag pole holder or a piece of PVC with an inside diameter that matches the outside diameter of the largest segment of the boat hook pole attached to the trailer jack. This same PVC could be attached to a permanently installed roof ladder. The antenna and pole come down and are stored during travel. The cable is routed through a locked box between the A frame at the front of my trailer and is stored there when not in use with a cover over the connector for the antenna to keep it clean.

As always, YMMV.

Jim, who has no interest in or connection to Jefa Tech other than as a satisfied customer.

This post has been edited by norsea: Nov 3 2009, 10:29 PM

[Mark & Dale ...]

We did a similar thing as norsea using standard off-the-shelf WISP (Wireless ISP), now more known as CPE (Customer Premises Equipment). For pictures and details, WISP Radio.

One advantage of using a WISP radio is that the connection between a wireless router and the externally mounted WISP radio is that CAT-5 LAN cable is used which in much smaller than antenna cable and has easily attached ends, unlike antenna cable ends. Also the CAT-5 cable can be up to 350' in length which allows more flexibility in installation.

Antenna cable has a practical limit of about 20' (depending on cable type) before signal loss is too high.

Other solutions using USB connections have cable length limits of 16' and a rather large cable end to have to pass through a hole in the RV.

Length in antenna cables is a diminishing value, the longer then cable, the less power delivered to or received from the antenna.

Without a question, having an antenna above the RV is a major factor in better Wi-Fi signal.

[Gambler]

We have the Deliberant CPE-12 mounted to our batwing TV antenna: http://www.macandchris.com/Internet_Access_WiFi_Boosters.htm Look at the bottom half of the page. This setup isn't "plug-and-play". It's not rocket science, but some technical knowledge is required.

Also note the more user friendly item in the top half of the page, along with a link to the Geeks website for more detail.

Mac

[Jack Mayer]

I've not used a JefaTech, but it looks to be a nice solution. You are still going to have to understand some networking, but likely not a whole lot. It should perform the same or better than the PepWave. The only issue I have with it is the length of the anttena run - this will attenuate signal a fair amount.

Nothing I have seen in this discussion will perform in the same ballpark as a Deliberant CPE. They are simply not the same class of equipment. But the "price" you pay for a Deliberant CPE is you NEED networking knowledge and the willingness to make this a "hobby". It WILL take time to deal with.

If you want to improve your signal on close-in APs then the easiest thing is to use an extension USB cable with a USB wifi adaptor - either directional or omni. For almost everyone in an RV park situation this will give you good enough signal. For one computer. But no configuration or management issues.

[AlexSian]

For a SIMPLE system I still like the PepWave Surf.

the pepwave surf is also a great way for cradlepoint router owners to use campground wifi as an internet source (for instance, when cellular signal sucks or is non-existent)

this cradlepoint "wifi as wan" solution means no network settings have to change on any computer already associated with the cradlepoint router.