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Now it makes sense, $100k Can = $76k US in todays exchange rate.

Greg

but, I don't know where in the US you would pay 76K for a truck like mine, not even a 2016'...I could see a Laramie Limited, 2016 for mid to upper 60's, but knowing that, would definitely not pay anywhere near 76K, (BUT, I'm talking about a Ram like mine.

2016 DRV MS36RSSB3
2016 Ram 3500 DRW/CC/LB/4X4/Aisin/4.10 Longhorn, rear air assist suspension
B&W OEM RVK3600 Companion hitch

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Of course.. the simplest/cheapest/+daily driver would be to stick with a 1 ton SRW and just downgrade the size and weight of your 5er. A 12-14k 5er would be 'more' than adequate for a couple and the intended usage the OP stated. As an added benefit.. if you can stay around 80% capacity, your TV will experience fewer repairs and improved mileage. Will save your bank book a penny or two as well.

 

I know a ton of folks that tow at capacity or more with "no issue", but there is a big difference taking a short trip from A to B and back again a couple of times a year and actually full timing white knuckled everywhere you go.

 

IMHO. Anyone that tells you different just doesn't know any better. :D:lol:

 

On Edit: I'm not implying that they are ignorant.. just that they haven't experienced towing any differently and don't realize how much nicer of a ride it is to stay well under max ratings.

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Yarome stated;

 

Of course.. the simplest/cheapest/+daily driver would be to stick with a 1 ton SRW and just downgrade the size and weight of your 5er. A 12-14k 5er would be 'more' than adequate for a couple and the intended usage the OP stated. As an added benefit.. if you can stay around 80% capacity, your TV will experience fewer repairs and improved mileage. Will save your bank book a penny or two as well.

 

I know a ton of folks that tow at capacity or more with "no issue", but there is a big difference taking a short trip from A to B and back again a couple of times a year and actually full timing white knuckled everywhere you go.

 

IMHO. Anyone that tells you different just doesn't know any better. :D:lol:

 

On Edit: I'm not implying that they are ignorant.. just that they haven't experienced towing any differently and don't realize how much nicer of a ride it is to stay well under max ratings.

 

 

 

 

Me;

I Agree with you , and I related same to the OP.. I tow quite a bit and plan on retiring and full timing starting end of July next year at age 66.. No "white knuckle" driving in my case. Did the math and used common sense; learned from life experiences over the last 45 years and matched the 5er to the truck and knew our plans...I DO know better ;)..I'm also WELL under my trucks GCWR, by over 8K, STILL under my GVWR of 14K by a little over 1K...so, not ignorant at all, and do realize how nice my ride is and how versatile it is..don't need to tow with a HDH that I won't be able to use all the time to figure that out. They may not know this because THEY haven't experienced towing said weight with newer one ton, crew cab, long bed truck...can be said both way's...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2016 DRV MS36RSSB3
2016 Ram 3500 DRW/CC/LB/4X4/Aisin/4.10 Longhorn, rear air assist suspension
B&W OEM RVK3600 Companion hitch

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I'm with you on that one. We used the 780 as a daily driver for over 9,000km this summer. Yeah, I had to walk a little farther in some malls, but exercise is good for me.

 

The rest of the time, with a nearly 22K fiver, we ran up the mountains, not hills, real mountains with snow on the top in August, and we ran down the mountains. Probably didn't use the normal brakes more than 300 times on the highway on that whole trip. The Jake on the Volvo is so configurable and has so much authority it slows the combined unit just fine as long as you are looking ahead and planning your moves. So minimal brake wear on the truck and minimal brake wear on the trailer. And if a situation arises where I really do need my brakes, they are nice and cool and ready for use.

 

A 780 of that vintage with a combination weight of 50,000lbs is not a free lunch. I move along pretty good at usually at truck limit plus 4 or 5 and we got 6.9 US overall by the computer. I think it was pessimistic or sulking as my fuel tally was nearly 1mpg better than that.

 

In that whole trip I maybe saw three HDTs on the side of the road but pickups were a not infrequent sight with the hood up.

 

The new LDT trucks from 2013 or so on are a whole different kettle of fish compared to the older ones, but an HDT is like a comfy rocking chair by comparison, if you like that kind of thing. Many don't. RVing is a big tent, all are welcome and there is no right answer.

 

Geo

George,
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Work ride is Western Star N2 Tri-Tri tanker at 56,500kg loaded

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Agree there is no right answer, but please don't start the silly argument of "real mountains". I travel 3 Interstates with places that run 7% grades and secondary mountainous curvy roads that will go 10-15% in stretches. I've never had an HDH pass me towing upFancy Gap Grade on I 77 in VA, New River Gorge on I64, or going up I26 from Erwin TN into NC,just to mentiona small few...BUT,I've been passed by them going DOWN those grades while my truck, inT/H and EB set in aggressive mode, in cruise control, maintained a steady down hill controlled speed, and in comfort, sitting in a very comfortable seat that isn't even air ride.

 

I've towed I 40 Gorge from TN late Nov with 5-8 inches of snow on the road...no issues...didn't want to, it just happened.

 

The, "there are only mountains west of the Miss", gets really old. I could put you on some well traveled secondary mountainous, steep, curvy roads in NC, VA and WV that would keep you pretty busy in your big rig while towing...

 

Most know the higher mountains are west of the Miss., but these east of the Miss can keep you on your toes, it's arrogant to think otherwise.

 

And YET AGAIN, I'm only defending ONE statement. One DOESN'T NEED a HDH to tow a 17-19K 5er,that is all,in 2015, there IS NOW several choices, one of which is a newer 350/3500 Dually..EVERYONE knows a HDH can do it, but it appears some on this forum won't be open to information on the topic.Before 2013, I'd been in agreement with you,but technology has changed that. Times change.

2016 DRV MS36RSSB3
2016 Ram 3500 DRW/CC/LB/4X4/Aisin/4.10 Longhorn, rear air assist suspension
B&W OEM RVK3600 Companion hitch

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it appears some on this forum won't be open to information on the topic.Before 2013, I'd been in agreement with you,but technology has changed that. Times change.

 

Exactly what technology has changed? It is interesting how marketing numbers have convinced so many on the capabilities of new pickups.

 

Let with some of the factors that determine the GCWR of a pickup. One is the ability to get the Combined Rig up an on-ramp to the Interstate.

 

There has been technology in this area as the current rating of the larger pickup engines have quite bit more horse power. But the truck manufacturers are still using horse trailers for their tests and that skews the results because of the much lower frontal area of a horse trailer compared to a fifth-wheel RV trailer. The addition of testing with fifth-wheels was supposed to start last year, perhaps the results weren't good.

 

Another factor to increasing GCWR is the load the trailer places on the tow vehicle, the GVWR.

 

An increase of 5,000 lbs weight in a fifth-wheel trailer will add about 1,000 lbs in pin weight. For a 20,000 lb trailer, that is 4,000 lbs. Interesting as we keep talking about a one-ton dually with a two ton load. But technology, well just putting a heavier duty axle will handle that load. Hopefully tires went along with that increase. A friend of mine who does the Weighing for RVSEF say that way too many times has he weighed rigs that the loads exceeded the tire capacity of the truck.

 

Another item to remember in the rating of GCWR, the trailer is considered to have the brakes for its own weight. There is no consideration for the truck brakes handling the trailer weight.

 

This is the biggest reason that manufacturers have been able to raise the GCWR of pickups almost 10,000 lb in the last ten years. They only needed more horsepower and a bigger axle.

 

Now when everything is working, the trailer handling its own weigh is fine. But we have to remember that unlike our cars and trucks with dual split braking systems, trailers have single braking systems. The single systems are dependent on one wire is the case of electric brakes or one hydraulic line in the case of disk brakes. A break in a singular element means the trailer will have no brakes.

 

How often does a failure in trailer brakes systems happen, far more than we want to know. I personally had a hydraulic brake cut by poor routing around a frame member that caused complete lose of trailer brakes.

 

Now in the case of the highly rated pickups with a trailer brake failure, the impact is significant since there is no extra capacity in the pickup, above the pin weight, for the trailer.

 

In my case in an HDT with a GVWR of 52,000 lbs, there was enough brake power for the trailer. I knew the braking was a bit slower but it was happening.

 

In the area of braking, the more prevalent installation of exhaust brakes has helped pickups in not consuming their rigs brakes coming down steep mountains. The exhaust brakes are good for about half of the the rated horsepower of the engine.

 

The Jacobson brakes found in HDTs are equal to the rated horse power of the engine. A lot more control braking power coming down the mountain. Remember the HDTs are usually rated at 52,000 lb GVWR and 80,000 (or more) GCWR.

 

As the marketing hype by the pickup manufacturers keeps expanding the GCWR ratings because they do not have to handle trailer weight, times have changed but I am not sure it is for the good.

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So, for those of us who DO understand the weights, go to CAT scales and know all their weights, we just don't know what we're talking about on this topic?? The "newer technology" was all brand new heavier duty FRAME, new front and rear suspension, the addition of a medium duty transmission, an 11.8 axle, dual radiators for extra cooling, 2 stage EB and more. The 11.8AAM axle, rated by Ram at 9750#, supported by 4 tires, aired to 80 psi will cover 2833# each (dually configuration) X 4, which equals 11,332#, which easily covers Rams 9750# limit on rear axle and tires AND almost covers the full 11,500# that AAM rates this axle at. GCWR of my truck with Aisin tranny and 4.10 is 37,500#, truck and 5er are at 27,340#. With TH hooked to my truck, Steer axle, 5400#, drive axle 7770#( empty is 3860#).. Pin weight is 3910#'..7770 + 5400=13,170 # that my truck is loaded to, which is 830# under my trucks GVWR and Well under axle and tire ratings.

 

I know my trucks limitations and know it can handle my TH safely, without going over manufacturers recommended GCWR, GVWR, FAWR, RAWR. Simple math, common sense and research figured into what I decided to tow and what to tow it with.. Though my trucks specs show I could tow heavier, I feel 20K, ( not loaded to that), is enough for me and my truck.

 

I've done the research know the capabilities of my truck...A HDH would tow my TH easily. Do I need or want a HDH. No.

2016 DRV MS36RSSB3
2016 Ram 3500 DRW/CC/LB/4X4/Aisin/4.10 Longhorn, rear air assist suspension
B&W OEM RVK3600 Companion hitch

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I was just messing with you. Apart from Florida maybe, you can find interesting roads all over North America if you go looking.

 

There are more and bigger mountains out west, and from where I live you go through them to get anywhere interesting.

 

It perhaps provides incentive for more hauling capability than if I lived and operated on flatter ground.

 

Geo

 

Agree there is no right answer, but please don't start the silly argument of "real mountains". I travel 3 Interstates with places that run 7% grades and secondary mountainous curvy roads that will go 10-15% in stretches. I've never had an HDH pass me towing upFancy Gap Grade on I 77 in VA, New River Gorge on I64, or going up I26 from Erwin TN into NC,just to mentiona small few...BUT,I've been passed by them going DOWN those grades while my truck, inT/H and EB set in aggressive mode, in cruise control, maintained a steady down hill controlled speed, and in comfort, sitting in a very comfortable seat that isn't even air ride.

 

I've towed I 40 Gorge from TN late Nov with 5-8 inches of snow on the road...no issues...didn't want to, it just happened.

 

The, "there are only mountains west of the Miss", gets really old. I could put you on some well traveled secondary mountainous, steep, curvy roads in NC, VA and WV that would keep you pretty busy in your big rig while towing...

 

Most know the higher mountains are west of the Miss., but these east of the Miss can keep you on your toes, it's arrogant to think otherwise.

 

And YET AGAIN, I'm only defending ONE statement. One DOESN'T NEED a HDH to tow a 17-19K 5er,that is all,in 2015, there IS NOW several choices, one of which is a newer 350/3500 Dually..EVERYONE knows a HDH can do it, but it appears some on this forum won't be open to information on the topic.Before 2013, I'd been in agreement with you,but technology has changed that. Times change.

George,
Suzuki Celerio 998cc

Yamaha NMAX scooter

 

Work ride is Western Star N2 Tri-Tri tanker at 56,500kg loaded

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Not a problem Jim. I certainly take your point that the new LDTs are quite remarkably better. Some decisions are not as clear cut as they were a few years ago.

 

I have a lot of hours in a 2013 SRW F-350 6.7 in oilfield service. Very nice truck and tows and stops a 12,000+ lb Roughneck site trailer like it's not even there. In the mountains.

 

And we're not going to get the fully boxed frame until 2017 I think?

 

Geo

George,
Suzuki Celerio 998cc

Yamaha NMAX scooter

 

Work ride is Western Star N2 Tri-Tri tanker at 56,500kg loaded

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One thing that hasn't been touched on that might be something to consider... aside from tow ratings.. the actual weight and wheelbase of your TV remains the same. Times change, but a 1 ton is still a 1 ton. I'm sure truck makers are trying to meet consumer demands for higher tow ratings, but unfounded or not, at some point I would start getting a little concerned about my rigs ability to control a 25k load in adverse conditions. You can pull it, but can you control it and stop it if the trailer brakes fail? I wonder what tests are done to determine control-ability at those capacities? 25k behind a 6-7.5k rig... that might make me nervous. :P

 

Just food for thought.

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I can comment that a 18500lb 5th'er will push a 8800lb dually down an interstate highway downhill considerably further than you think. We drove thru a wreck as it was happening around us. Lost the trailer brakes due to debris on the highway- jagged pieces of a Forerunner barrel rolling in front of us. The truck went into anti-lock, PacBrake engaging, transmission downshifting (auto), and us trying to maintain control without wrecking ourselves or wiping out anybody else. Less than fun.

We are full time, we tow our home with nowhere else to go "Home" too. Having a vehicle that can stop our home with or without its brakes working is important to us.

An HDT is not for everybody. Most, I would say 99% of all the 5th wheels towed, are towed by the big 3 dually pickups. Most without issue.

I would like to see testing on I-70 Colorado- downhill with the "Max" tow rating. First with a set of the cheap drum brakes that most RV's come with, then another test with just the truck brakes.

Alie & Jim + 8 paws

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Agree there is no right answer, but please don't start the silly argument of "real mountains". I travel 3 Interstates with places that run 7% grades and secondary mountainous curvy roads that will go 10-15% in stretches. I've never had an HDH pass me towing upFancy Gap Grade on I 77 in VA, New River Gorge on I64, or going up I26 from Erwin TN into NC,just to mentiona small few

 

There are some real nice hills in NC, VA, TN and other places back east.

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I would like to see testing on I-70 Colorado- downhill with the "Max" tow rating. First with a set of the cheap drum brakes that most RV's come with, then another test with just the truck brakes.

 

I'll watch and take video, but no way I would get behind the wheel of that.. no sir, Bob. ;) It 'would' be interesting to see the stopping distance even with the RV brakes though.

 

On that type of down grade.. without the RV brakes... my prediction would be the RV fishtailing and flipping the TV... or a controlled 3 mile stopping distance. :lol:

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The 9750 rating on axle is my problem. I have over 10k on mine. That is with a just shy of 40' 5ther. Have air bags to help with sag and it rides like a rail.

Don't know how you equate length to RAWR...first time I've heard that one :blink: .. at 80 psi,(4 tires) my RAWR is 11,500# per the manufacturer of the rear axle, AAM...BUT, I'm under my trucks GVWR my over 800#. no where near RAWR, even at 44'. if that's what you go by,,

2016 DRV MS36RSSB3
2016 Ram 3500 DRW/CC/LB/4X4/Aisin/4.10 Longhorn, rear air assist suspension
B&W OEM RVK3600 Companion hitch

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I give up, I've learned my lesson on this forum,. One needs a HDH to go up and down mountains towing anything over 15K...No room to do the math and research the talking point, or use a little common sense.

 

You win, I will never push a dually to tow weights above 15K again...You put me in my place...heck , I'm afraid to drive down a mountain now...I bow to your superior knowledge..I joined this forum thinking it was one of the better rv forums, but have found out if you don't use a HDH, you're not in the clique...It's been real..sorry to have cluttered your forum

2016 DRV MS36RSSB3
2016 Ram 3500 DRW/CC/LB/4X4/Aisin/4.10 Longhorn, rear air assist suspension
B&W OEM RVK3600 Companion hitch

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I give up, I've learned my lesson on this forum,.

 

No one's saying that. Just because someone opinion may vary doesn't mean they are trying to argue that your opinion is wrong. It's just different. I wish you wouldn't take it personally. That's the beauty of a forum like this. Everyone's experiences and opinions DO vary. As a collective it provides an invaluable resource and allows folks to pick and choose the little grains of wisdom to fit their own situation.

 

From my experience this IS the best RV forum out there. Everyone is respectful... I've never seen a single "flame". It's certainly one that has the most experience to draw on. Some of the most obscure questions come up and it never fails there is 'someone' that knows the answer.

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Paid $52K for mine, (it's paid for) plus 7yr 100,000 mile zero deductible Chrysler Max Care extended warranty. at 65 years of age, the truck will last as long as I'll use it, and I can use it ALL the time and take it anywhere I want to....Can disconnect from my 5er and drive my truck anywhere I need or want to

 

Do what you think is best and affordable for your situation...ALL I'VE STATED IS FACTS...One DOESN'T NEED a HDH to tow a 17,000-20,000# with anymore, the 2013+ 350/3500 dually's are more than capable to now handle that weight. Some information that USE to be true and that "I" at one time, agreed with...that you NEEDED a HDH to tow a 17,000# plus 5er...now you don't..You get up to 22,000# plus, a MDT, or HDH might be needed...Times have changed, technology has come a long way with 1 ton dually's. If money is an issue, do what you have to do..I have no room to park a HDH, I can't use it 365 day's a year..It wouldn't work for me as a daily driver, I can have cake and eat it too..Empty, I can average 16 mpg, (I've done almost 18 on a trip)..Towing, I'' stay around 9.5 mpg, and that is all towing in the mountains..Truck run's and looks great.

 

Sorry to belabor the issue, but for some just to state emphatically that one MUST have a HDH to tow a 19K 5er with is incorrect information and that IS the ONLY thing I'm talking about. One doesn't NEED a HDH to tow a 19K 5er with...

 

NC,

 

Several forum posts lately describe some lemon-law buy backs of 13 and later 3500 trucks and it appears that some dealers step-up to the pate but some do not........,such is life......

 

Most of the failures seem to NOT involve the engines but it appears that the rest of the drive train that tows at or near the "newer-enhanced-load-ratings" have serial-drive-train-faults........

 

All makes and models seem to have a few lemons in the populations.......Towing near or max ratings can bring a lightly loaded peach .....into the lemon category at times.......

 

I have found having a good load reserve margin is best.......

 

Drive on...........(Lemons make nice pies.......)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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Unless Dodge puts faulty info on their website your axle gross is 9750 same as Chevy and Ford. If I have insulted you I am sorry. Never my intentions and would hate to see you disappointed in this forum.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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Haven't read all the replies but here is my opinion. I have a toy hauler triple axel with a Harley in the back and tow with a Ford F-350 SRW. I have been doing this for 4 years and have been a full timer the last 2. I have not had any problems at all and I have driven cross country many times. I have gone from Denver to Phoenix as well. Most people will recommend that you get a DRW, which is better, but you can get away with a SRW. Ford, Chevy or Dodge are all great trucks. I recommend at least a 350/3500. Diesel is a must.The only difference is one additional leaf spring from a 250/2500, the diesel motor is the same. Ford has a 5th wheel prep package from the factory with the mount for the hitch, electrical wiring and brake controller already on the truck. You an get the Lifestyle Alfa with the side garage or a traditional tie hauler. Anther option is a Class A Motorhome with a lift on the back for the Harley and tow a vehicle behind. Many people tow a Jeep Wrangler which may be a better daily driver than a truck.

2015 Itasca Ellipse 42QD

2017 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Hard Rock Edition

2021 Harley Street Glide Special 

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Unfortunately a lot of number slinging and an admitted use of 11,000 lbs on a Ram rated 9,750 lb axle led away from what the OP asked.

 

By description, the long stay between two locations means a very serious full-time living. A trailer in the 18K-20K GVWR will be build to the needs of some living. Moving a trailer by a commercial trucker can get expensive, enough to warrant a tow vehicle capable for the trailer.

 

The need for a daily driver can be solved a few different ways. An adequate daily driver truck is possible depending on your expectations. We used a Volvo 770 (very tall) as a daily driver for a while. Other people on this tread have described HDT daily drivers also. Exactly where did HDH come from?

 

The using of an HDT carrying a Smart car is an option if the Smart car fits your daily driver needs. Smart can be too small for some.

 

You can have you mate chase your rig with a suitable car or light truck. If you are toggling between two locations, maybe a car at each location is an option.

 

For 10 years we towed a car behind our trailer. This option requires a tow vehicle for pulling 25K+ lbs. The car adds to the GCWR. Also the trailer frame need to constructed with a 5K lb tow hitch. There are issues like you probably will be over the usual 65' RV length limit. You might amiss of a state double towing law. But it is an option.

 

Many ways to solve you needs. Start with the living conditions. Pick an adequate transport. And pick a daily driver vehicle.

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Mark & Dale
Joey - 2016 Bounder 33C Tige - 2006 40' Travel Supreme
Sparky III - 2021 Mustang Mach-e, off the the Road since 2019
Useful HDT Truck, Trailer, and Full-timing Info at
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Unless Dodge puts faulty info on their website your axle gross is 9750 same as Chevy and Ford. If I have insulted you I am sorry. Never my intentions and would hate to see you disappointed in this forum.

I guess you didn't read several of my post. I stated RAM rated my RAWR at 9750#, ( 4 rear tires aired to 65 psi ea). The MANUFACTURER of the 11.8" axle, AAM, (only with Aisin, medium tranny)RATES THE REAR AXLE AT 11, 500#, thus the reason I gave two specs... I go by Rams recommendation, and at my loaded weights , am not even over the trucks GVWR, much less near

Rear axle weight rating. If RAWR IS SAME ON 350/3500 Ford/GM trucks, why are their GVWRs less than Rams 3500? ( comparing dually to dually's)....my 2013' has a GVWR of 14,000#... GM and Fords aren't/ weren't that high in 13', and I doubt now.

 

Doesn't seem to be much "room for discussion" on this forum, especially when FACTS are given...I suggested to OP to get a 3500 dually, or go to lighter 5er... I based my opinion on facts that show a 3500 dally could safely tow OPs choice of 5er weight. I couldn't , in good conscience, recommend someone Do something unsafe, But, one really doesn't need a HDT to tow weight of 5er OP wants....but I Would match the right dually to it, and I WOULDNT Recommend one tow it with a 3500 SRW truck either

2016 DRV MS36RSSB3
2016 Ram 3500 DRW/CC/LB/4X4/Aisin/4.10 Longhorn, rear air assist suspension
B&W OEM RVK3600 Companion hitch

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