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While this thread contains many rational and well thought out posts on this subject (as opposed to the emotional sort that it oftens gets on other forums) - none of this really matters when you're on the road. During any traffic stop - you are literally at the whim of the officer who stops you (regardless of how wrong he/she may be). It also ignores the reality that once a case moves into the court system - you are now at the whim of the prosecutor / judge / jury involved in your particular case - and once a case enters the court system there are ZERO guarantees with regards to what the outcome will be. As a gun owner - you need to be knowledgeable about the laws concerning your weapons in your particular circumstances - and stay within those laws at all times. However, you also need to realize that whatever you think you know about gun laws and/or how compliant with them you perceive yourself to be - you've got to recognize the you're taking an inherent risk the moment that law enforcement and the legal system becomes involved. It's their game, their rules and their judges - and just because you get to pick how stuff starts, doesn't mean you'll have much (if any!) say in how things end up.

The Spacenorman

2012 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 43' DFT

2012 Jeep Liberty

Our Travel Website: www.penquinhead.com​

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...As a gun owner - you need to be knowledgeable about the laws concerning your weapons in your particular circumstances - and stay within those laws at all times. However, you also need to realize that whatever you think you know about gun laws and/or how compliant with them you perceive yourself to be - you've got to recognize the you're taking an inherent risk the moment that law enforcement and the legal system becomes involved. It's their game, their rules and their judges - and just because you get to pick how stuff starts, doesn't mean you'll have much (if any!) say in how things end up...

 

Well stated SpaceNorman, we don't live by what the Courts said in some decision years ago.

We live in the real world.

 

So how many times have either of you been stopped for no reason and had your RV searched? If you've been stopped for traffic violations, you might want to reconsider your driving habitats.

 

I'm not talking about I know a guy who knew a guy. In all my years of travel both in an RV and not, I can not even remember seeing an RV that was obviously pulled over for a traffic citation although I have seen many pass me by that appeared to deserve it. I have seen many RVs on the side of the road broken down, flipped over and even on fire, but can not remember one seeing one that appeared to be stopped for a traffic violation let alone being searched which would usually involve more than one officer (one to watch the suspects and at least one to conduct the search).

 

At least once a year we use a ferry. They inspect the underside of the RV and all vehicles with mirrors and use one or more dogs. They routinely go inside the trailer to make sure that there is no one hiding inside. The dogs (never the same one) have never alerted on the fact that there is a firearm(s) or ammunition in the trailer or back of the pickup and I have never been asked if I had a firearm on board.

 

So, how many folks reading this thread have been stopped, had their RV search for firearms and not been allowed to go on there way?

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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So, how many folks reading this thread have been stopped, had their RV search for firearms and not been allowed to go on there way?

In all of our years RVing, I have only once been stopped for anything in traffic and that was to make me aware of a tail light that was out. But the officer was courteous and never mentioned searching our RV, or vehicle towing it. Other than that, I have never been stopped by an LEO. I know at least on who was stopped with his motorhome for speeding (he griped long and loudly about it) but no mention was made of any request to search the RV. I can't remember anyone I know who has been searched for anything.

 

I have also been though several Border Patrol check points where they asked about riders and once or twice did a bit of a look around, but no firearms search. Would not evidence discovered by an unwarranted search be inadmissible in court?

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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So how many times have either of you been stopped for no reason and had your RV searched? If you've been stopped for traffic violations, you might want to reconsider your driving habitats.

 

I have never been stopped while driving my coach. As much as I'd like to think it's because I do my best to not break any traffic laws ... I'm pretty sure I've had a little dumb luck help me out along the way.

 

I have however been stopped while driving my "daily driver" on numerous occasions over the years. You see, I'm a gigging musician and find myself find myself pulling out of bar parking lots at 2:30 am - 3:00 am in the morning in my "older", white, windowless E150 cargo van on a semi-regular basis. Apparently "older" vans ... pulling away from bars that time of the day are inherently suspect. When it happens, the LEO making the stop slowly approaches the van, requests my paperwork, asks me if I know why he stopped me, then tells me about an "infraction" I know I did not commit. I in turn inform him that I'm a CPL holder and that I'm NOT armed at this time, I tell him that I just finished performing at _______ and point to the pile of band gear in the back of the van. By this time, the LEO has heard me talk enough / gotten close enough to get a whiff of me to realize that I haven't been drinking (I don't drink when I'm gigging). It's common that they run my license, a couple of times I've been administered a field sobriety test ... but in the end, the outcome has virtually always the same ... they hand me my paperwork back and send me on my way with at "warning". I've yet to actually be ticketed for the alleged infraction that I was purportedly stopped for. While the LEO will never admit it and I'll never be able to prove it ... there are two of us on that roadside who know I was stopped to see I had been drinking and that the "alleged" infraction that was the premise for stopping me in the first place was just a ruse..

 

The point to my story is simple. NOT breaking the law - while always a good idea - is NOT a guarantee that you won't be stopped. While all the discussions about what's legal and what's not legal and the nuances on interpreting gun laws contained in this thread are interesting ... they're more or less meaningless if/when you find yourself with a law enforcement officer in your face. Once you're stopped - your counting on the benevolence of the LEO you're dealing with - and the presence of a weapon has the potential to change the complexion of a routine stop completely! If the LEO decides there's an infraction present - what you know and/or what you think you know just doesn't matter.

The Spacenorman

2012 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 43' DFT

2012 Jeep Liberty

Our Travel Website: www.penquinhead.com​

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SpaceNorman, thank you for your view.

While it is nice to think that all LEOs receive the proper training, that is not the case.

We, in Texas, have minimum wage law enforcement officers who patrol interstate highways and major state highways

that run thru their cities. Example, less then 45 miles from Houston two LEOs from the same department are in prison because the pressed

young women who they had stopped for sex and one was convicted of rape. This is from a well known speed trap city.

There is also a law that allows the police to take the property of people who they think used the property for unlawful purposes.

There are a large number of reported abuses. When two different news program staff traveled thru Louisiana with autos that were rigged with cameras

that showed the speed that the were going and the traffic stop where the officers stated that they were stopped for speeding it resulted in the officers being fired.

Two months later those same two officers were working for law enforcement in the Parish next door! This happened on IH 10.

If you are out driving soon after the bars close, 2 am in Texas, you will be stopped period. That you can bank on.

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While it is nice to think that all LEOs receive the proper training, that is not the case....

 

Yep ... sad but true.

 

Sadly, we don't seem to be getting any closer to dealing with this issue. Public discourse on virtually all matters associated with law enforcement seems to be completely polarized. There's the "law enforcement can do no wrong" camp with their "you won't have any problems if you don't break the law" views on one end. Then there's the "law enforcement can do no right" camp that are critical of anything and everything that law enforcement does. I fear we'll all continue to pay a steep price until there's an acknowledgement that the truth sits somewhere in the middle.

 

It's encouraging to see that the incidents/situations you mentioned in your post appear to have had "fair" endings - in that the alleged abuses were reported, investigated, ruled upon by entities empowered to provide proper oversight - and when appropriate, transgressors punished., Unfortunately, for every incident such as these that are brought to a conclusion that is both just and fair - it's probably safe to say there are many that simply go unreported and unexamined - which puts the general public in one helluva position - and brings me back to my original point in this thread.

 

Simply being a law abiding citizen may not be enough to keep you out of trouble with law enforcement. If/when a weapon gets added to the mix - it often does nothing but complicate the situation - and clearly raises the stakes for all involved (it typically raises the intensity of the LEOs' approach ... and certainly raises the stakes in terms of severity of any charges brought against the citizen). While being thoroughly knowledgeable about the laws certainly doesn't hurt - it's no guarantee that you won't have issues in the event you have any contact with law enforcement - even if you're completely "legal".

The Spacenorman

2012 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 43' DFT

2012 Jeep Liberty

Our Travel Website: www.penquinhead.com​

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Mr SpaceNorman makes some excellent points. The fact is that a LEO can stop you and do "just about" anything they want at the side of the road. Your only recourse to that is court and a great expense. And if firearms are involved they WILL be confiscated and it is very unlikely you will get them back (ever) and if you do it will not be in a timely fashion.

 

As far as polarization about law enforcement....well, there is not absolute. Some of my good friends are active LEOs or former LEO's. Some are retired, some not. With all due respect to well trained professional officers, there are PLENTY that are not. I've encountered a few of them in my life. Actually a handful. And in NO CASE was I doing something illegal or out of the ordinary.

 

My opinion is that you should NEVER agree to a search. Ever. And if you are going to carry firearms you need to know and adhere to the laws of the states you are passing through. Period. And personally, I'm staying out of NY and NJ, among others.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
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  • 3 weeks later...

And if firearms are involved they WILL be confiscated and it is very unlikely you will get them back (ever) and if you do it will not be in a timely fashion.

 

This statement is just not true.

Ray & Deb - Shelbi the Aussie & Lexington the cat
2004 Volvo 630 500HP ISX "Bertha D" - 10 Speed-MaxBrake -ET hitch.SOLD
2009 Designer 35RLSA SOLD
Fulltiming since '07 - stopped 2016

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So, how many folks reading this thread have been stopped, had their RV search for firearms and not been allowed to go on there way?

 

Three years ago this September, we traveled to Ohio on a six week trip to visit family and friends. We had not yet entered the full time lifestyle, and as such, all vehicles had their registration in Arizona. Prior to our departure, I studied all available information with respect to transporting firearms through the various states between Ohio and Arizona. We felt thoroughly prepared for any eventuality.

 

On our return voyage, we began to experience heavy winds as we traveled along I-70 in Indiana. As Heather searched her phone for a suitable upcoming exit to pull over, relax, refuel and await the wind abatement, I noticed an unmarked vehicle following us, so closely, I had difficulty 'seeing' the vehicle in either side view mirror. Within minutes, red and blue dash lights began to flash inside the unmarked vehicle - only visible from the back up camera monitor.

 

After safely pulling to the side of an exit ramp, an officer appeared at our door. As Heather stood in the open doorway, three additional unmarked vehicles pulled in behind us. This young, polite and professional officer asked if we were experiencing difficulty traveling with the wind gusts. We explained how, for safety reasons, we had located a suitable spot to stop (at this particular exit) in an effort to await a safer time to travel. We were then informed that we had made "an illegal lane change" and for that reason, he decided to pull us over to make certain we were 'OK.'

 

"Really? An illegal lane change?"

 

"Yes, sir." And the officer then smiled and requested our permission to search the RV (Class A Diesel Pusher with no Toad on this trip).

 

As I said earlier, we had prepared thoroughly for just such an eventuality, but as I contemplated how to word my response, I noticed none of the officers had identifying markings on their persons or vehicles. They wore T-Shirts which simply read: 'Police.' Not Pima County Sheriffs Department or Baton Rouge Police Department or FBI - just 'Police.' All vehicles were of the unmarked variety - complete with tinted windows.

 

Things certainly didn't 'smell' right - and not just the entirely made up "illegal lane change." So, I did what I thought any reasonable person would do: I requested to see some documentation proving they were indeed officers of the law. Instantaneously, we were shown ID indicating these officers were DEA! However, rather than repeat the request for entrance into our RV, a roadside interrogation began. Now, at no time did these officers attempt to intimidate (other than there were now eight of them - all for an "illegal lane change"), coerce or threaten us, but we were asked (what we thought) were some pretty bizarre questions.

 

"Do you normally take I-40 in Arizona when traveling from Tucson to Toledo?" (How the hell did they know we traveled that route five and a half weeks ago!)

 

"How much cash do you have on your persons and in the vehicle?"

 

"Are you licensed to transport firearms?"

 

The officers didn't appear satisfied with our answers (1. "No, but we went to Kingman, AZ the weekend prior to setting off for Ohio, so we used I-40 instead of I-10 to head East." 2. "73 bucks in my pocket and $3000 in cash in the RV safe." 3. "What does any of this have to do with our alleged "illegal lane change?" (non-responsive). They again requested our permission to search the RV.

 

When I asked for a moment to 'think things over,' I was informed, "If I had nothing to hide, and I wasn't doing anything 'wrong,' I had nothing to worry about from a search of the vehicle."

 

I then explained, "Well sir, it isn't really that simply. We both know this "illegal lane change" stuff isn't reality. Unless we give you permission to go in, you'll need to find a judge to issue a warrant. We both know, that probably isn't going to happen. But, I'm quite sure you'll take your sweet time letting us know you couldn't locate a judge to issue a warrant, so as a result, we can finally be on our way (after a several hour delay) - should we decide not to grant the permission. Heather here wants to visit Lincoln Trail State Park (in Illinois some three hours from our current location), and we both know, if we don't grant you permission to enter, Heather and I won't be seeing that State park anytime soon. so, what I have to decide is, 'How much grief do I want to take from her over this - when I could have just let you all inside and been on our way in minutes?'"

 

The DEA Officer laughed, and said, "You two think it over for a few minutes. We've got time." Evidently, having an RV registered in Arizona suggests the owner is a wannabe cast member of the 'Breaking Bad' TV series (based in New Mexico!)

 

Of course, wanting to get to that State park before sundown was what Heather wanted, so I caved - and reluctantly gave permission.

 

During the time 7 officers searched our RV, we chatted with one of the officers outside the RV, and I had a few questions:

 

1. We had spent the night in the rest area on the Arizona, New Mexico boarder some 5 and a half weeks earlier, how did you all know we were there?

 

2. When did the DEA receive the charge of 'Traffic Control' on the nation's highways?

 

3. Did we just get pulled over for "Driving while being from 'Arizona?'"

 

The responses stunned me. "1. Your license plate showed up in a satellite database of vehicles which traveled in an area of I-40 which is a highly used drug corridor. 2. The DEA didn't pull you over for an illegal lane change, the illegal lane change alerted us to the 'possibility' you might be in some sort of distress. The safety of all Americans is the concern of the DEA. 3. As far as 'driving while being from Arizona', well, it certainly didn't help."

 

As the search concluded, one of the inside officers stated we had 'clearly' followed the rules with respect to firearms laws and their transportation, and there would be no need for us to open the safe for them to inspect the cash. We were thanked for our cooperation, and of course (with a smile and a chuckle) could now be on our way with a verbal warning with respect to that "illegal lane change."

 

Now, we have serious doubts about a 'satellite' putting our license plate into a database, but having said that, someone or some camera certainly did do so - as the DEA did know the exact date and time of our stop in the Arizona / New Mexico boarder Rest Area - five and a half weeks earlier. We also know that we did "nothing wrong" yet still found ourselves on the side of the road making (what could easily have been) life altering decisions. Even if you know all the rules, regulations and laws, even if you follow the speed limit, even if the LEA appears outside the 'jurisdiction' to which they have been assigned, even if you "know your rights," you can still find yourself in a situation you'd rather not be in.

 

Since that day, we have all vehicles registered in South Dakota (to avoid 'driving while being from Arizona'), we also double / triple check all applicable state laws where we plan to travel. We also double / triple check no loaded weapons exist. We have chosen not to go with a CC at this time (try traveling across Tucson while avoiding all the 'exclusionary zones').

 

Interestingly, we have never had another interaction with Law Enforcement (either driving the RV or the Toad) since that day - nearly three years ago. Many individuals have already linked to the appropriate web sites, apps, books and court decisions which effect RV owners and their weapons while traveling. No need to repeat that great advice here. However, do make certain to remain continuously educated on the matter, and remain calm, polite and professional should you encounter an LEA during your travels.

 

Could we have gone a different route, and not granted permission to search? Absolutely, and we would have been well within our rights to do so. But then again, I'd still be hearing from Heather how we never got to visit that park! LOL!

 

Good (and Safe) Travels to you all.

 

Todd

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Now, we have serious doubts about a 'satellite' putting our license plate into a database, but having said that, someone or some camera certainly did do so - as the DEA did know the exact date and time of our stop in the Arizona / New Mexico boarder Rest Area - five and a half weeks earlier. We also know that we did "nothing wrong" yet still found ourselves on the side of the road making (what could easily have been) life altering decisions. Even if you know all the rules, regulations and laws, even if you follow the speed limit, even if the LEA appears outside the 'jurisdiction' to which they have been assigned, even if you "know your rights," you can still find yourself in a situation you'd rather not be in.

You need to contact the ACLU and share your story as soon as possible. Illegal stops and searches is one of their hot buttons.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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I like technology and watch syfi TV; some ideas seem way out there yet we don't give our young people the credit for the technology talents they have. It is challenging for people in their comfort zone to keep up, happily retired now I don't follow tech like I had to when I was working so am way behind. Many young people today never knew life without a computer or cell phone etc. Google your name, phone number or previous address and see what comes up. Facebook is an excellent data mining resource.

 

There are amazing gadgets available and it appears that the satellite license plate capture is for real:

 

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/12938/20140813/digitalglobe-launching-hi-res-satellite.htm

 

http://www.jatagan.com/our-services/license-plate-capture-system/

New technology in license plate readers tracks records of driving history:
http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/New-technology-in-license-plate-readers-track-records-of-driving-history-332847861.html

Arizona has a lot of problems with the security of its southern border http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/31154548/drug-cartel-scouts-living-in-mountain-ranges-south-of-phoenix

and is known for tracking trends AKA profiling. Many drug cartel related crimes in Phoenix are not carried on the national news.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-ny-surveillance-idUSL2N0EV0D220130621
The system's customized software ties together much of the NYPD's wide-ranging resources - from surveillance cameras, license plate readers and radiation detectors to 911 calls, criminal records and other city databases - and displays the information on a user-friendly 'dashboard.'

 

I just saw a show about HackingEDU http://hackingedu.co/#about One of the comments made by educators to young people wanting change is "we have always done it that way". This group basically gets together to create new apps and programs to improve education. Technology is moving faster than our educators and our government can keep up.

 

This is the creation of the 2015 HackingEDU winner: http://devpost.com/software/swift-tutor

 

I just watched a show on the presidential election process interviewing two former campaign managers from opposing sides and it showed how automated the scripts are for volunteer callers. They get a list of names, dial the number and a script for that specific person being called comes up on their phone screen. They then press the buttons with the persons answers and that goes into the candidates database. Also the door to door volunteers have that info on their cell phones before they knock on your door. It was funny when one neighbor asked what the couple was doing and why they didn't come to his house? They asked who he was voting for (the volunteers had their candidates name embroidered on their jackets) and the neighbor chuckled and said "Oh,that's why".

 

I find it all very interesting but also can be scary at the same time.

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This statement is just not true.

It is very true, and there is lots of documentation to back it up. The context of the statement is having firearms that are PROHIBITED in the jurisdiction where stopped. There are MANY cases of this. Just do some research. Does it happen in EVERY case? No, but it happens often enough to be of concern. And YES, I realize there are Federal transport laws.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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I'd be interested in if any retired law enforcement are keeping their guns under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act? And if so, how are you handling the annual firearms training requirement? I'm thinking about going that route and try to be back in my agency's state when I know their range schedule. We plan to travel in a fifth wheel so I can leave the gun behind when restricted in areas.

 

 

Then again, I might just carry a baseball bat in the trailer.

Mark from Missouri

Our Future in an RV

2018 Ram 3500 Laramie Dually LB 6.7L HO Diesel Aisin Transmission 4x4 3.73 Gears

2019 Vanleigh Vilano 320GK 35’ fifth wheel 16,000-pound GVWR

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It is very true, and there is lots of documentation to back it up. The context of the statement is having firearms that are PROHIBITED in the jurisdiction where stopped. There are MANY cases of this. Just do some research. Does it happen in EVERY case? No, but it happens often enough to be of concern. And YES, I realize there are Federal transport laws.

Sorry but the discussion by SpaceNorman never mentioned jurisdiction. Your blanket statement that firearms WILL BE CONFISCATED is wrong as long as you conform to the jurisdictions statues for transport

As to research, I'd be happy to read your sources on firearm confiscation.

I can't speak for MD but in NJ if firearms are unloaded in the trailer and you do not make any stops in the state you are OK. That said, in NJ if you don't follow the statures your "confiscation" statement would actually be an understatement. Not only would you loose your firearm but probably your vehicle and will include court and jail time.I've discussed this with a few of my NJ LEO relatives and although they are not lawyers or judges they tell me this is the way it will come down.

Ray & Deb - Shelbi the Aussie & Lexington the cat
2004 Volvo 630 500HP ISX "Bertha D" - 10 Speed-MaxBrake -ET hitch.SOLD
2009 Designer 35RLSA SOLD
Fulltiming since '07 - stopped 2016

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I'd be interested in if any retired law enforcement are keeping their guns under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act? And if so, how are you handling the annual firearms training requirement?

 

<snip>

 

 

Previously I returned to the agency I retired from and fired the Florida Dept Of Law Enforcement standard qualification course. Now that I have a home base on the other side of the state, I asked the local sheriff if I could join in the next time they ran qualifications for their deputies. They were quite accommodating.

 

Safe Travels...

Roger, K4RS and Toni, K1TS
Amateur Radio Operators - Motorcycle Riders (Harley Davidson Tri-Glide Ultra)

Fulltime from 2003-2016 - Now longtime RVers

On the road, living the dream...
Ford F-250 Super Duty 7.3 liter diesel and Forest River XLR Toyhauler. 

Position report via amateur radio

 

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Previously I returned to the agency I retired from and fired the Florida Dept Of Law Enforcement standard qualification course. Now that I have a home base on the other side of the state, I asked the local sheriff if I could join in the next time they ran qualifications for their deputies. They were quite accommodating.

 

Safe Travels...

 

Thank you for the reply Roger.

Mark from Missouri

Our Future in an RV

2018 Ram 3500 Laramie Dually LB 6.7L HO Diesel Aisin Transmission 4x4 3.73 Gears

2019 Vanleigh Vilano 320GK 35’ fifth wheel 16,000-pound GVWR

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North Carolina definitely has your concealed carry info on your driver's license record. In fact, your concealed carry permit number is your DL number. I have been stopped several times at "safe driver" stops and I have always told the LEO that "I am armed and have a permit". it has never been a problem and most times the LEO said words to the effect good for you.

Catfish

different counties must assign numbers differently, my DL and my CCP bear no resemblance.

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