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Satellite TV Receivers and Modified Sine Wave Inverters


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One thing to keep in the back of your mind is that while many "modern electronics" WILL run on MSW.. it's not necessarily good for them and you may be greatly shortening their useful life. It may just be that the internals and pathways in your receiver are wearing "thin" and just can't tolerate the harsh wave form any more. Different brands of the same type of electronic device will react differently... and even within the same brand, different models may vary in performance (when considering how well they tolerate MSW). The simple "it turns on, it works" test is not a good indication.

 

For that reason alone, I generally recommend PSW. It does cost more initially, but how much does it cost to replace your more sensitive devices prematurely? Just something to consider.

 

One other note.. just because your remote may have identical port connections to your inverter does not necessarily mean that you can reuse your current remote. If it's just a simple on/off, then you might.

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Regarding a different remote - many use a cable with RJ11 (I think) connectors on each end. You might have to change remotes but hopefully the cable will remain the same.

 

Another thought on the receiver - we had some problems with our overheating due to being in an enclosed cabinet (like most entertainment centers). I ended up installing a cooling fan with a thermostat to keep the temperature down. When the unit reached a certain temperature it would just shut down with a message saying what happened (I think it said the temperature was 138 degrees). Not like your experiencing but something to think about - keep the door open if it's in a cabinet.

 

A problem I had with a new PSW inverter dedicated to our residential refrigerator - I initially used 2 gauge wire from the batteries to the invereter. Everything was fine until the battery voltage (measured at the batteries) dropped to 12.3 volts. At that point, when the frig tried to start, the load the inverter was pulling dropped the inverter voltage (measured at the inverter with an oscilliscope) below 11.9 volts which would shut down the inverter. Of course it then powered back up and the frig tired again a few minutes later and the same thing happened again sounding the alarm on the inverter each time (all at 3:00am). Larger wire between the batteries and the inverter solved the problem. The point I try to make is you MAY be seeing a "slight" drop in voltage due to (1) battery condition, (2) connections, (3) wire size or other issue that is causing your inverter to "cycle" like mine did.

 

Interesting that you saw the same thing on 30 amp service. Do you have a clear view of the southern sky where your at? Could it be some trees or clouds are blocking the signal? Signal loss or partial loss can cause what your seeing.

 

Lenp

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2002 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom

2012 F150 4x4

2018 Lincoln MKX

2019 HD Ultra Limited

 

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Yarome is right in that MSW inverters have been known to damage some devices. MSW is a misnomer anyway... it's not a "modified sine wave" but more of a "slightly modified square wave" and does pass the job of making decent direct current (which is what electronic devices actually work on) to the device's power supply. This can increase the amount of heat that the device has to dissipate.

 

Lenp's remarks about opening any cabinet the receiver is installed in would be a good idea. Our 211 receiver is mounted on top of a bedroom cabinet and not inside anything and it still gets warm to the touch even on decent shore power. I am careful not to put anything on top of it because those vent slots have to be open to the air in order to transfer the heat to the surrounding air.

 

I also much prefer PSW inverters since you can now get even little versions that can just plug into a cigarette lighter plug for under $80. But those would not be suitable for the satellite system.

 

If you could just borrow a decent 500-watt PSW inverter and just attach it to your battery bank with jumper cables and test your satellite system on that I think it would give you a better idea of what's going on. It certainly looks like a heat-related issue to me but where - and how - that heat is being generated is the question.

 

Good luck. :)

 

WDR

1993 Foretravel U225 with Pacbrake and 5.9 Cummins with Banks

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RV park voltage is notoriously bad... it's possible that it's worse than your generator.

 

That's certainly true, although our Good Governor which we have plugged into an outlet doesn't indicate any problem...it's at 120 volts and it shows correct wiring. I suppose there could be something wrong that doesn't show up on it, but that would be beyond our ability to do anything about.

 

 

 

For that reason alone, I generally recommend PSW. It does cost more initially, but how much does it cost to replace your more sensitive devices prematurely? Just something to consider.

 

I do want to replace our MSW inverter with a PSW at some point. However, if the inverter isn't the cause of the satellite receiver problem (in the sense that there's a problem with the inverter that's causing the receiver to act up), then we can replace the receiver and perhaps wait a bit before replacing the inverter...at least it wouldn't be a "has to be done NOW" type of situation. That would also give us a bit of time to find someone we feel comfortable with doing the work and who can make sure everything has the correct size of wire, etc. I'm not sure I'd trust just any RV service center to get it right.

 

 

 

Another thought on the receiver - we had some problems with our overheating due to being in an enclosed cabinet (like most entertainment centers). I ended up installing a cooling fan with a thermostat to keep the temperature down. When the unit reached a certain temperature it would just shut down with a message saying what happened (I think it said the temperature was 138 degrees). Not like your experiencing but something to think about - keep the door open if it's in a cabinet.

 

Yes, the receiver is in a cabinet; however, I've always kept one door open, otherwise, I can't change channels with the remote! Lately, though, I've been keeping both doors open and have thought about placing a fan up there. When our receiver shuts itself off, we don't get any kind of message why it's doing it, so I have no idea whether it's shutting down because of overheating or because of some other problem. It does always restart, but takes about 10 minutes to go through the reboot process which is a PITA as it invariably happens right at the most critical part of the program. ;) (Also, nothing is on top of the receiver.)

 

 

Interesting that you saw the same thing on 30 amp service. Do you have a clear view of the southern sky where your at? Could it be some trees or clouds are blocking the signal? Signal loss or partial loss can cause what your seeing.

 

Totally clear sky, nothing blocking the dish to the south. We're in Quartzsite presently and, if you're familiar with the area, you know that Quartzsite doesn't have any trees (to speak of)! :) Also, where we've been boondocking out in the desert around Yuma, Quartzsite, and other areas, there are no trees other than the normal, short, trees usually found in desert areas. The weather has been nice...a few fluffy clouds here and there, but no major storms that would affect reception. I'm familiar with that type of signal loss but that's not what the receiver is doing. And, even if that were the case, signal loss because of obstructions or weather wouldn't cause the receiver to shut off.

LindaH
2014 Winnebago Aspect 27K
2011 Kia Soul

 

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That's certainly true, although our Good Governor which we have plugged into an outlet doesn't indicate any problem...it's at 120 volts and it shows correct wiring. I suppose there could be something wrong that doesn't show up on it, but that would be beyond our ability to do anything about.

 

 

 

I do want to replace our MSW inverter with a PSW at some point. However, if the inverter isn't the cause of the satellite receiver problem (in the sense that there's a problem with the inverter that's causing the receiver to act up), then we can replace the receiver and perhaps wait a bit before replacing the inverter...at least it wouldn't be a "has to be done NOW" type of situation. That would also give us a bit of time to find someone we feel comfortable with doing the work and who can make sure everything has the correct size of wire, etc. I'm not sure I'd trust just any RV service center to get it right.

 

 

 

Yes, the receiver is in a cabinet; however, I've always kept one door open, otherwise, I can't change channels with the remote! Lately, though, I've been keeping both doors open and have thought about placing a fan up there. When our receiver shuts itself off, we don't get any kind of message why it's doing it, so I have no idea whether it's shutting down because of overheating or because of some other problem. It does always restart, but takes about 10 minutes to go through the reboot process which is a PITA as it invariably happens right at the most critical part of the program. ;) (Also, nothing is on top of the receiver.)

 

 

 

Totally clear sky, nothing blocking the dish to the south. We're in Quartzsite presently and, if you're familiar with the area, you know that Quartzsite doesn't have any trees (to speak of)! :) Also, where we've been boondocking out in the desert around Yuma, Quartzsite, and other areas, there are no trees other than the normal, short, trees usually found in desert areas. The weather has been nice...a few fluffy clouds here and there, but no major storms that would affect reception. I'm familiar with that type of signal loss but that's not what the receiver is doing. And, even if that were the case, signal loss because of obstructions or weather wouldn't cause the receiver to shut off.

Linda, Sorry you're having trouble and look forward to final resolution. You are probably aware that sometime the signal from the satellite can get distorted or even be completely disappear for a short time. CMEs from our sun can cause sat signals to be disrupted. This is usually of very short duration and can effect only one or many channels. From your description I doubt that this is the cause of your problem. But you never know. Good luck. Dennis

Trailer: Montana 5th wheel, model 3582Rl, model year 2012

 

Truck: Ford 450 PSD Super Duty, 2002 Crew Cab, Long bed, 4:88 rear end, last of the 7.3 engines, Automatic Transmission.

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A bit off topic, but if overheating is an issue, this holder might allow you to mount your receiver in an alternate location that might provide more airflow. I use it for my 211 receiver. It's handy in that its a flip up type. When I want my receiver out of the way I store it in the down (flat against the cabinet) position.. then up horizontal when in use so I can get good reception with the remote control.

 

Certainly wouldn't' work for everyone, but it might open up some possibilities. I don't know if I would like to keep my cabinet doors open all the time just to watch the walking dead. :lol:

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Linda, Sorry you're having trouble and look forward to final resolution. You are probably aware that sometime the signal from the satellite can get distorted or even be completely disappear for a short time. CMEs from our sun can cause sat signals to be disrupted. This is usually of very short duration and can effect only one or many channels. From your description I doubt that this is the cause of your problem. But you never know. Good luck. Dennis

 

If it were just the picture disruption, I might think that there was something wonky going on with the signal sent from the satellite (sun spots?). But I don't see how a signal disruption would make the receive turn off all by itself. Plus, usually when there's a signal disruption, like during a big storm, there's always been a message on the screen about losing the signal. No such messages in these cases.

 

A bit off topic, but if overheating is an issue, this holder might allow you to mount your receiver in an alternate location that might provide more airflow. I use it for my 211 receiver. It's handy in that its a flip up type. When I want my receiver out of the way I store it in the down (flat against the cabinet) position.. then up horizontal when in use so I can get good reception with the remote control.

 

Interesting concept. There's not enough room in our cabinet to put something like that, but maybe we can come up with something else that will allow more air flow around the entire receiver.

 

We have to leave at least one door to the cabinet open while watching TV, otherwise the satellite remote and the receiver can't communicate. The doors are dark plexiglass, and the signal from the remote just doesn't go through it.

 

By the way, we went by Satellite Advantage and talked to them about the problems. We're going to take the receiver in tomorrow to see if they can get it to do the same thing. The guy we talked with felt like it *might* be an overheating problem. I'm not convinced, but we'll see what the outcome is of the testing.

LindaH
2014 Winnebago Aspect 27K
2011 Kia Soul

 

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I always leave the door to my cabinet open (as you do) when using the DVR. If the temp is going to be hot in the cabinet from sun on the wall behind the cabinet I will prop up one side of the DVR to improve ventilation. By any chance, is there some soft material on the bottom of the cabinet, like thin carpet? If so the legs of the DVR will sink into the material and reduce the air flow.

 

The hard drive in the DVR may be going bad. I have had symptoms like yours when the hard drive in our DVR was going bad.

 

One thing I did notice was, we had normal operation until we paused what ever broadcast we were watching. I THINK that before you pause the broadcast, you are watching live from the satellite feed. But once you pause, what you are seeing, is first going to the hard drive and then to your TV.

 

Does it literally take 10 minutes to reboot? If I drop power, on the DVR's I have had, they usually reboot in 3-4 minutes, not the full 10 minutes. The time span is closer to 10 minutes if we have traveled, or if the DVR has been off for several hours. A slow reboot could be an indication of a hard drive going bad.

 

I don't know of any way for a consumer to test the hard drive on a DVR. I'm sure they can test it at the factory when they refurbish the DVR.

 

About the signal coming from the satellite: You can view the signal strength from the satellite by going to the install menu and going to "point dish". On my DVR that is going to "menu", "system setup" (6), "installation" (1), "point dish" (1).

 

In case you are not aware of it, most if not all DVR or Receiver where you can record the shows are little more than a desktop computer with programing to make it work for satellite TV. So any kind of problem you might see on a computer, such as a bad hard drive can crop up on the DVR.

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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Just to be sure you know, don't travel with your DVR powered on. The jarring and bouncing of the DVR can cause problems with the hard drive. The hard drives don't have the built in protections the hard drives in a laptop do.

 

If there is a chance you did travel with the inverter on and the DVR powered up, this could be contributing to the problem.

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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By any chance, is there some soft material on the bottom of the cabinet, like thin carpet? If so the legs of the DVR will sink into the material and reduce the air flow.

 

No, the receiver (not DVR) is sitting on wood. I do have the small feet in front sitting up on the ledge so that there is a little bit more air ventilation underneath, but it doesn't seem to do anything for the problem.

 

 

 

Does it literally take 10 minutes to reboot? If I drop power, on the DVR's I have had, they usually reboot in 3-4 minutes, not the full 10 minutes. The time span is closer to 10 minutes if we have traveled, or if the DVR has been off for several hours. A slow reboot could be an indication of a hard drive going bad.

 

I looked at the time last night after the receiver turned itself off...again...and it was actually about 4 minutes. I think you're right that the 10-minute span is when I first turn the receiver on after it's been off (as in no power to it) since the previous night. I always turn everything on 10 minutes before the first program we want to watch and it usually takes most of those 10 minutes before the picture comes on.

LindaH
2014 Winnebago Aspect 27K
2011 Kia Soul

 

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We dropped off the receiver this morning at Satellite Advantage for testing. Just got a call a few minutes ago..."Your receiver is junk!" (Big surprise there!)

 

So we're going to go pick it up and I'll call Dish to see if we can't get a new receiver sent to us.

LindaH
2014 Winnebago Aspect 27K
2011 Kia Soul

 

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We added a 12 volt 120mm computer fan to our DVR cabinet, ran it off a 6 volt power brick so it was silent. Set it to suck air into the cabinet through a hole we cut, let it force the air out around the door to avoid doing a second hole.

 

It made a big difference in how hot the electronics ran, with the fan we never saw the on-screen overheat warning again.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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RESOLUTION: After bringing the receiver back home and booting it up, I did a CHAT with Dish's Tech Staff. The person to whom I was corresponding was having me jump through a bunch of hoops, but the turning point came when I said, "Oops, the receiver just turned itself off like it always does!" I then got the message: "We'll send you a new receiver." I don't imagine it will be shipped out until Monday, but by sometime next week we'll have a new receiver. Hope the old one makes it that long!

 

Stanley, I've been thinking about getting a fan for that cabinet if we can find one small enough to fit up there. It's on my shopping list!

LindaH
2014 Winnebago Aspect 27K
2011 Kia Soul

 

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I really like these, three speed switch and 80, 90 or 120 MM sizes. Do get the DBB, Double Ball Bearing version as it will be longer lived. Don't get the LED lit ones!

 

http://smile.amazon.com/Antec-TriCool-DBB-Cooling-3-Speed/dp/B00066ISES/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1423345176&sr=1-4

 

 

This one might be a bit less noisy if you slow it down by using 6 volts but the Antec is probably pretty close and offers the smaller sizes.

 

http://smile.amazon.com/Logisys-Extreme-Rubber-Cooling-SF120/dp/B005UFCBL6/ref=sr_1_6?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1423345176&sr=1-6

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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Thanks for the links, Stanley.

 

I'm not clear on how they get their power. The second link has a picture of the "4 pin PWM adapter and 4 pin molex adapter" that are included. But what do they hook up to? The only thing we have in the cabinet is 120-volt power.

LindaH
2014 Winnebago Aspect 27K
2011 Kia Soul

 

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I'm not clear on how they [fans] get their power. The second link has a picture of the "4 pin PWM adapter and 4 pin molex adapter" that are included. But what do they hook up to? The only thing we have in the cabinet is 120-volt power.

 

If your DISH receiver has USB ports, you can use a USB-powered fan.

SKP #79313 / Full-Timing / 2001 National RV Sea View / 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
www.rvSeniorMoments.com
DISH TV for RVs

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I prefer to use a small power brick so that they don't draw power when the 120 volt AC is not available.

 

The easy way is to just snip the plug off the fan wires (just tape the 3rd and 4th wire if present) and use a power brick like this one:

 

http://smile.amazon.com/JACKYLED-Switching-Power-Supply-Adapter/dp/B00T95PNYK/ref=sr_1_2?

 

Or snip the wires on both and use a power brick like this one:

 

http://smile.amazon.com/Power-Adapter-Supply-1000ma-Quality/dp/B005JRGOCM/ref=sr_1_3?

 

 

I'm not sure if the dish boxes can supply the needed power from the USB port or not and they warn about un-powered USB drives. I didn't want problems or any grief from Dish so I used the brick option.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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I prefer to use a small power brick so that they don't draw power when the 120 volt AC is not available.

 

If you're going with an AC fan, consider a thermal-controlled fan. Otherwise, your fan will ALWAYS be on. Something you may not want at night.

SKP #79313 / Full-Timing / 2001 National RV Sea View / 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
www.rvSeniorMoments.com
DISH TV for RVs

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I've tried the thermal controlled fans and while they work well in a fridge where you can put the sensor on a hot fin I haven't been happy with them in environments like an electronics cabinet. Maybe if you could find one with a speed curve intended for that type of use rather than CPU cooling it might be a good choice.

 

Having one like the three speed one above is what you really need, you can set it to low in cool temps and bump it up if you are in hot conditions.

 

You need a fan in this situation running all the time the receiver is powered on as the heat generated on or off is very nearly the same. Plugging it into the same outlet strip the receiver uses makes that simple.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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RESOLUTION:...... Oops, the receiver just turned itself off like it always does!" I then got the message: "We'll send you a new receiver." I don't imagine it will be shipped out until Monday, but by sometime next week we'll have a new receiver. Hope the old one makes it that long!

 

I'm pretty sure they will ship the replacement receiver to your service address on your account, so be sure your service address is where you want the receiver sent to. The receivers I have had shipped to me came UPS.

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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The easy way is to just snip the plug off the fan wires (just tape the 3rd and 4th wire if present) and use a power brick like this one:

 

http://smile.amazon.com/JACKYLED-Switching-Power-Supply-Adapter/dp/B00T95PNYK/ref=sr_1_2?

 

Or snip the wires on both and use a power brick like this one:

 

http://smile.amazon.com/Power-Adapter-Supply-1000ma-Quality/dp/B005JRGOCM/ref=sr_1_3?

 

 

Thanks for the additional links, Stanley. I might even be able to handle doing something like that! :)

 

 

If you're going with an AC fan, consider a thermal-controlled fan. Otherwise, your fan will ALWAYS be on. Something you may not want at night.

 

Thanks for the additional link, Zulu. Having the fan always on wouldn't be a problem in our case since, because we do so much boondocking, we always turn off the inverter when we're not actively using AC power. That means that the receiver is turned off when we're not watching TV, including overnight. And, if we're hooked up to power in an RV park like we are now, I can either unplug the fan or leave it run...the receiver and the bed are at opposite ends of the motorhome (although, at 29' total length, that's not all that far ;) ), so I'm not sure any noise it generated would be a problem.

 

I'm pretty sure they will ship the replacement receiver to your service address on your account, so be sure your service address is where you want the receiver sent to. The receivers I have had shipped to me came UPS.

 

Yep, changed our service address to the RV park where we currently are before talking with Tech. The Tech person did confirm that the receiver will be shipped via UPS...if it were to have come by USPS, I would have had to give him a different address since Quartzsite does not have home delivery of the mail (which complicates matters when ordering something online).

LindaH
2014 Winnebago Aspect 27K
2011 Kia Soul

 

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I've tried the thermal controlled fans and while they work well in a fridge where you can put the sensor on a hot fin I haven't been happy with them in environments like an electronics cabinet.

 

Not all thermal-controlled fans are alike. I've tried several brands and some are just not built very well. I settled on Coolerguys.com because I've gotten consistent quality from them.

 

Their thermal controllers can power four of their fans, and you can buy an adjustable controller if the stock (preset) one doesn't fit the bill.

 

 

You need a fan in this situation running all the time the receiver is powered on as the heat generated on or off is very nearly the same. Plugging it into the same outlet strip the receiver uses makes that simple.

I think this depends on the equipment you're running. The two USB fans on my 1st gen Apple TV are always on because it's a hotplate. However, my Hopper & DVD player are relatively cool when not in use, so thermal-controlled is preferable -- especially considering that my power strip is difficult to reach.

SKP #79313 / Full-Timing / 2001 National RV Sea View / 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
www.rvSeniorMoments.com
DISH TV for RVs

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