Trailers designed for boondocking

[Yarome]

Was thinking about getting a bladder for fresh water. Have you ever used one? I carry a spare pump so could use that to transfer the water.

 

I do. I carry a couple 35 gallon bladders (one potable and one for filtering) and prefer them to jerry cans. They're less weight to carry around when empty and fit into any little nook or cranny when filling. They also have the added benefit of not needing a pump to transfer water into the fresh water tank. Just stack a bit of gear on top and let'r rip.

[Jimalberta]

Yarome...if I understand you correctly you use weight to provide force on the fresh water bag to push the water into the RV...is that right? I would be carrying a full water bag in the back of my pickup and the fresh water fill on my motorhome is probably a good 2 feet above that.

[Yarome]

Yarome...if I understand you correctly you use weight to provide force on the fresh water bag to push the water into the RV...is that right? I would be carrying a full water bag in the back of my pickup and the fresh water fill on my motorhome is probably a good 2 feet above that.

 

Yup. Mines usually in the bed of my truck as well. I let gravity do most of the work (my inlet is higher too) then just roll it up to push the last few gallons out.

 

One thing I will say though.. it can be a pain to fill if I can't get my rig somewhat near the water source. Jerry cans would win out there... and at times I would like to be able to off load it before my FW tank needs a fill. It IS nice though having a continuous flow of water for showering.

[kinseypw]

where did you get the bladders Yarome?

[Jack Mayer]

I got my bladder at Camping World. It has held up well for over 10 years. Price was about what it was elsewhere.

[Jimalberta]

Next question is where do you find water for that bladder?

[skp51443]

About anywhere that has potable water available, either free or offer them five bucks if they hesitate. A lot of places offer water by the gallon to fill your bladder or RV, we used to have a list of ones in eastern Washington, northern Idaho and western Montana that we got from someone in Chapter 39.

[Yarome]

where did you get the bladders Yarome?

 

Mine where custom done from Ready Containment, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them. Their products are excellent, but cost prohibitive unless they would be in near constant use. I like the "hard" valves.. top center for filling and a lower trap style lower valve... air bleed valve and tie downs built in.

 

I've seen plenty of people using those lighter weight one from Camping World with success though.

 

Next question is where do you find water for that bladder?

 

Any pressurized water source will do. Personally, I pump and processes my own with whatever is available (lakes, streams, horse troughs ).. potable or not, however, I have a non-chemical water purification system (as opposed to filtered only). It will only process around 4gpm (or 1.5gpm with heave filters.. like I would use in Mexico or other border towns), but I'm never much in a rush to be anywhere. It also beats the heck out of making a long/slow trip into somewhere every few weeks.

 

I much prefer fresh running water that's self processed to bottled, well, or hose water.

[kinseypw]

In AZ my experience was that tap water wasnt drinkable. Most places we stopped (Phoenix, Tucson, Yuma) had places that sold water by the gallon, cheapest was 50c/5gal in Yuma. Some were vending machines that wouldnt work with a bladder but many have hoses with trigger valve on the end that means you can fill the bladder on the back of the truck.

[2gypsies]

All Arizona water is drinkable. You just have to have use a filter filling. We never bought water in 16 years of full-timing - always drank from our fresh water tank. Sure makes it a lot easier.

[Yarome]

In AZ my experience was that tap water wasnt drinkable..

 

You're not alone. AZ water out of the tap is completely undrinkable. That cloudy mineral laden gunk. Don't get me wrong... 2gypsies is correct that it won't kill you, but it's certainly a 'no joy' situation.

[yourpcgeek49]

To extend "used water" capacity we have done two things:

 

First, we have installed a composting toilet. This completely eliminates the need for a black tank. (There are other forum discussions on the pro's & con's of the composting toilet that don't need to be re-hashed here. See: Composting Toilet forum thread. Also see gone with the wynns)

 

Second we have added a twist on RV waste valve to the discharge port. These are available from Camping World and a variety of other vendors.. Since our Black Tank is not used and has been thoroughly emptied & rinsed, we can open one or both of our gray water tank valves along with the black tank valve -- leaving the twist on valve closed. This back-fills & equalizes the liquid level in the three thanks ... effectively adding the capacity of our black tank to our gray water storage.

 

That plus a 1,000 watts of solar & 800 Ah of batteries lets us stay as long as we have fresh water.

[noteven]

What are you desert boondockers using for heating in the winter months?

[Yarome]

What are you desert boondockers using for heating in the winter months?

 

A catalytic and warm blanket.

[sushidog]

 

A catalytic and warm blanket.

I just came back from a trip to the Smoky Mountains where I used solar power to heat my camper during the day. I'm sure this technique would work even better in the sunny desert. I just took the Reflectix off my windows and let the sunlight heat the interior. Worked like a charm. If you painted your interior (and exterior) black it would work even better.

 

For night time use, I am planning on installing a large solar system on my trailer when I go FT. I will use a 48v heat pump for both heating and cooling to save on propane costs. Making heat from a regular electric resistance heater, regardless the type takes 1,500 watts to make only 5120 btu/hr (an EER of only 3.41). However since you are not making heat, only "pumping" heat from the outside to the inside, the super high-efficiency heat pump I am looking at only uses 600 watts of power to transfer 12,500 btu's of heat inside (an EER of 20.83 - over 6 times the heat per watt of electricity consumed).

 

Now all is not ideal, as the colder it gets, the less heat there is outside to pump inside, so the less efficient heat pumps become at heating. Taking this efficiency drop into account the mini-split model I'll be using is efficient down to around 42 degrees (below that the efficiency drops like a rock, though they do make models optimized down to 17 degrees), however the one I've selected is optimized for air conditioning. Even so, 8 golf cart batteries should give me an entire night of heat in moderate weather (at no more than 70% duty cycle) before the sun comes up. Of course I'll use propane as my primary heat source (an Olympian Wave-8 or a couple Wave-6s) when the mercury drops, with the heat pump used mainly to take the chill out of the air on cool evenings. Being from Louisiana, I hate the cold, so I don't plan on going where it freezes much anyway.

 

Chip

[reed and elaine]

Our answer to post #38 by noteven, we use a catalytic heater and a warm blanket as does Yarome in post #39. Since we have a very large battery suite, we have left one of the small (30 W) halogen lamps on in the main luggage compartment to keep the pipes from freezing. We have a $15 Best Buy remote thermometer to monitor the temperature there and have found that it keeps the temperature in high 30s/low 40s even at temperatures down to 15 F. We also turn off the water pump and open the valves so that they drain.

 

An Olympian Wave 6 was sufficient for our first 28' TT but we find the Olympian 8 is needed for our 34' 5th wheel. It works extremely well and will keep the main cabin around 70 when anbient temperature is in the 20's F.

Reed and Elaine

[Yarome]

we have left one of the small (30 W) halogen lamps on in the main luggage compartment to keep the pipes from freezing. We have a $15 Best Buy remote thermometer to monitor the temperature there and have found that it keeps the temperature in high 30s/low 40s even at temperatures down to 15 F.

 

X2 This is a great idea that deserves repeating. Much more efficient than trying to push warmer cabin air into your basement.

[reed and elaine]

I do not know if I read this idea once upon a time or just did it to see what might happen.

 

We have LFP battery suite in front compartment which is insulated but has a pierced metal floor. LFP should not be charged at high C below freezing (the newer Ytterium LFP apparently work better bu this is not what we have). Plan to just put a 12 V 30 W halogen in there as well

(along with a $15 remote thermometer). Had thought of using a 110 V AC heater but that means using the inverter at night and that has a parasitic draw of around 60 W.

 

Concept works even better if you are hooked up to line power, which we are not

Reed and Elaine

[G&K]

The only thing you have to watch is how hot those bulbs get. Plenty hot enough to start a fire if they inadvertently come into contact with something combustible.

 

It would be nice to find something a bit larger that only got up to a couple of hundred degrees. Not sure where to find such a thing, but a biggish wire wound resistor would probably work at 12v.

 

Geo

 

Edit. Found one!!

 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/181577620139

[reed and elaine]

Desolation Roe -

 

Thanks, I looked at the site you put in above, http://m.ebay.com/itm/181577620139, They do heat to 180 C.

 

you are absolutely correct that the lamps should not be turned on until you have made sure that things do not come in contact with them. The Open Range series (cheap but nice) come with the lamps installed in the luggage area. Just checked and they are incandescent lights (there were some halogens inside that I replaced with LED). The ORs come with LED primary interior lighting but there were still some halogen and incandescent at bed and outside that we replaced with LED. But the lamp usage may be moot if we install these heating elements

Reed and Elaine

[G&K]

Agreed. I see they make a 20w too. A couple of these attached to small aluminum sheets (bigger radiator area) and strategically placed to get the best heating distribution should work great. Turn on 0, 1 or 2 depending what the bay temp is.

 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/PTC-Heating-Element-12V-200-20W-Consistant-Temperature-Ceramic-Thermostatic-/201348029302?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202348%2526meid%253D7b13c5db20304cb6bd2f0e1afd976a98%2526pid%253D100408%2526rk%253D10%2526rkt%253D16%2526sd%253D181577620139&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

 

Geo

[reed and elaine]

Geo

 

Just need to keep the bays a few degrees above feezing.

 

Reed and Elaine

[G&K]

OK. I don't understand your point.

 

Putting a couple of these in the bay at 20w each should do that pretty well? Only turn on what you need when you need it. Would be trivial to set this up with an anti-freezing thermostat so you didn't waste electric.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Geo

[Yarome]

OK. I don't understand your point.

 

Putting a couple of these in the bay at 20w each should do that pretty well? Only turn on what you need when you need it. Would be trivial to set this up with an anti-freezing thermostat so you didn't waste electric.

 

 

I don't want to put words in Reed's mouth, but I think he just meant to size and place the elements according to your particular needs. You only need a degree or 2 above freezing.

 

My comment: It's impossible to say exactly what temp element and how many would be sufficient for your particular rig, basement size, and water line configuration. It's not necessary to keep the entire basement above freezing. Strategically placed near your water lines should be sufficient. 2 - 200 degree elements might be a bit overkill... and when you're living on your battery bank... every bit of juice counts.

[G&K]

OK. These were suggested to replace a 30w Halogen bulb that gets EXTREMELY hot and is not something I want where I can't keep an eye on it. These little guys are only 20w each on 12v, and will never get over 200C so they won't burn your trailer down around your ears one night.

 

I did mention attaching these to a backer plate, possibly 6 x 6" x 1/16" aluminum to increase the radiant area, and putting them where you get the best effect.

 

Personally, I would go ahead and attach them to a thermostat that was reading the area you were interested in, and set for just a few degrees above freezing. Easier than having to turn stuff on and off by hand. Use the remote thermometer to make sure everything is working properly and that you have enough units turned on to match your weather conditions.

 

N.B: Sealing the area to prevent cold air infiltration is going to be critical. We are talking tiny heating elements that won't deal with outside drafts well.

 

I didn't explain the concept properly.

 

Geo