Engine Battery Not Charging

[chuckbear]

It appears that my engine start battery is not charging when plugged into 120 power or on the generator. The coach batteries are charging OK. Voltage at the battery today was 12.08 when plugged in or running off the generator. The engine started fine and the alternator is charging just fine. The battery is full of water and tests OK after a charge. The RV has been sitting for about 2 weeks without running the engine, but it has been plugged in or on the generator the entire time. The generator has been run for a couple of hours almost every other day. It was told to me that the converter/charger charges both the coach batteries and the engine battery when plugged in. Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting? 1999 Bounder 34J on a Ford chassis with V10 engine. Chuck

[oldjohnt]

Absent any specs or wiring diagram, I just cant say/know if your RV's onboard Charger connects to and charges your engine battery when powered up?????? (I sorta doubt it but what do I know)

 

FWIW (absolutely nothing) MINE DOES NOT nor have the many I've owned. RV Charger DOES NOT charge engine battery!!!!!!

 

HOWEVER I do have a push emergency jump switch that does connect my house battery bank to my engine battery via the big mechanical Isolation Relay when its depressed in case my engine battery is discharged so I can give it a jump to start the engine. Of course, a person could easily wire a switch if he wanted to close the relay (its a 100% duty cycle unit) so the RV charger also charges his engine battery via his isolation relay.

 

Trouble is you DO NOT want the possibility of your house batteries also discharging the engine battery when camping whereby you cant start the engine!!!!!!!!!! The RV's Ive owned do NOT have engine and RV batteries together when unplugged for that reason, you don't wanna be stranded with a dead engine battery!!!!!!!!!!!! Also the engine battery is a regular STARTING BATTERY NOT A DEEP CYCLE like RV house batteries and I dont like mixing them for charging when plugged to shore power. Sure, they are in parallel while driving, but I'm concerned with my Smart Charger here.............

 

My house battery bank is connected to my Isolation Relay (which connects to engine battery) via a short 2 Gauge Cable, so after a delay in starting my engine the engines alternator can contribute to house battery charging while driving.

 

My buddy has a V10 Ford whose engine battery is likewise NOT charged by his RV charger when plugged in or genset runs and his engine battery eventually discharges when setting.

 

I would find the cause of the engine battery discharge. Look for some phantom load or a fault or short that's draining the engine battery instead of worrying about the RV Charger keeping it charged. It shouldn't need charged when setting, there must be a short or phantom load that's draining it. Your car or truck doesn't need or use external charging when parked, neither should your RV engine battery.

 

A shop can test the battery including a load test for free, maybe its only a battery problem causing the discharge?? They eventually chemically self discharge over long periods, but not in a short time absent a problem

 

PS a full charged battery should read around 12.6 volts. That 12.08 is discharged, I don't like the sound of that!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bad cell, bad battery, load present???

 

John T

[chuckbear]

Well, If I had a wiring diagram, I would know where to start looking. I was hoping that someone with a similar system could give me an idea of how this might be set up and what to look for. Or if this type of coach does not charge both battery systems on 120 power. Chuck

[Ranger Smith]

Usually the engine battery is NOT connected to the charger. That is why they install the Trickle- Start. Winnebago is putting them on their RV's. I don't know if others are but for 50 bucks it solves the problem

[Darryl&Rita]

The reason oldjohn is looking for wiring diagrams is due to the distance between his computer screen and your unit. If I were in front of it, I'd simply follow the wiring from the charger to the battery banks. It's not that hard, It's the big wire. Whether the batteries charge off the convertor is a coin-toss. Some are, some aren't. Thus, the addition of a smaller battery maintainer to the coach bank.

[Jimalberta]

Fleetwood could tell you what you need to know. Phone them with your vin and Fin and they will have all the specs on your coach. 800-322-8216.

[chuckbear]

The reason oldjohn is looking for wiring diagrams is due to the distance between his computer screen and your unit. If I were in front of it, I'd simply follow the wiring from the charger to the battery banks. It's not that hard, It's the big wire. Whether the batteries charge off the convertor is a coin-toss. Some are, some aren't. Thus, the addition of a smaller battery maintainer to the coach bank.

That's fine, but the wiring often disappears into the netherworlds making it hard to trace and since it has been raining here in northern Florida for a week, crawling around under the coach isn't an options right now. Often when I come to ask a question on these forums it's to get some insight from others that have had the same problem, own the same product and can offer me advice on where to start and what to look for. Thereby saving hours of work and frustration. I am a marine service technician and have been for 40 years, specializing in electrical and electronics, so I know about big wires and small ones. this RV is new ground for me so if someone might have an answer to my question, I would appreciate some feedback. If you don't know, maybe don't answer. I thought these forums were for owners to help one another, especially the new people. Maybe I was mistaken. Chuck

[chuckbear]

Fleetwood could tell you what you need to know. Phone them with your vin and Fin and they will have all the specs on your coach. 800-322-8216.

 

I'll give that a try again on Monday. I was hoping someone on the forum could offer some insight so I could work on it between the rainstorms this weekend. Chuck

[socaltoolguy]

Chuck, if you don't get any other feedback, I think the place to start is the battery. I'd have it load tested and checked to see if it's gone bad. If it's ok, THEN start looking for problems. If all was ok but it just started giving you problems, I'd say maybe the battery is bad. JMHO. I can see you are frustrated but getting salty with the good folks here won't help one bit. Also, I have gotten a ton of great info on the IRV2 forum. They have forums for each type RV brand so you will get a lot of people who have similar rigs as yours chiming in. I have solved all of my problems from that forum.

 

 

Ray

[chuckbear]

Thanks Ray. I did charge the battery by running the engine. Let it set for 24 hours disconnected from everything and did a load test. It tested fine. On to the next thing. The previous owner said the engine battery and the house batteries are all charged through the shore power charger. So I need to start working my way through it. It is unfamiliar to me so if I don't get any responses, it's going to be trial and error. These systems are very different from any of the boats I have worked on over the years. Chuck

[socaltoolguy]

Chuck, I really think if you want some good honest info from owners of rigs similar to yours and mine, head over to IRV2 and check out the Fleetwood Owners Forum. There are also people from Fleetwood who monitor that forum and chime in once in a while. I have had great luck with calling them at their 800 number and talking to the customer service people. They are ready willing and able to email the diagrams of whatever you need. One phone call might answer all your questions. I'm curious to see what you find out because I have a similar rig in the same vintage. I had never given any thought as to how the start battery got it's charge. I knew it was charged from the alternator but when sitting plugged in to shore power, I figured it might be getting a charge too. But it would make sense for it to not be included in the charge circuit if there was a chance of drawing it down to the point where it wouldn't start the engine. Hang in there. I'm sure you will get it all figured out and when you do please post your fingings.

 

Ray

[chuckbear]

Thanks Ray. If I can't find anyone with the same system, I'll contact Fleetwood on Monday. I will let you know what I find. Chuck

[socaltoolguy]

Chuck, I copied and pasted your original question over at the IRV2 forum. I'll see if we get any feedback and as soon as I get anything, I'll post it back here. Or you can go there and log on to the Fleetwood Owners Forum and read it for yourself.

 

Ray

[oldjohnt]

Hey gang, I'm only here to help, not start an argument, and don't intend to offend anyone by simply trying my best to help and apologize if I did. I'm just hesitant to say how any coach is wired NOT having its wiring diagram. That's why I simply stated mine DOES NOT have the house RV charger connected up to the engine battery and explained the reasons why not. I figure any answers posted here are worth exactly what's paid NOTHING so I appreciate any help I get and try to repay the best I can. If it turns out the coach in question does indeed have the house Charger connected in parallel with BOTH Engine "Starting" Battery and House "Deep Cycle" Batteries in order to charge them all (absent any dual isolated output arrangement) well call me surprised lol

 

Sorry I couldn't answer the question (like many electrical questions) WITHOUT a wiring diagram.

 

John T

[pinger]

Usually the engine battery is NOT connected to the charger. That is why they install the Trickle- Start. Winnebago is putting them on their RV's. I don't know if others are but for 50 bucks it solves the problem

X2

[Jimalberta]

Chuck...I don't know if this will help or not....but.... My Eagle is a Fleetwood product. It has a battery load control center or some such wording that does the following.....it watches the charging of the coach batteries. When the coach batteries reach a certain voltage, I think around 12.8 it then will connect all the batteries together so that the drivetrain batteries get charged as well. If the coach batteries drop in voltage this device will then disconnect the batteries.

 

I was told by Fleetwood tech support that if you have a bad battery bank and they never reach the required voltage that this device will never connect the batteries and the drivetrain batteries wont get the benefit of shore power ( or solar) charging.

 

This is on my Eagle...dont know if you have that set up or not but I'm throwing it out there.

 

Cheers

[chuckbear]

Thanks Jim. That kind of makes sense except that the coach batteries are fine. The engine battery is also fine at this point since I charged it with the engine alternator. I don't know how long it will take to pull it down again. There are "hidden" loads on any battery from electronics and elsewhere that will draw it down over time. I'm a DIY kind of person and only pay someone to solve problems when all else has failed or I realize it's beyond my expertise. This should not be one of those times.

 

John T, no offense taken. I was hoping someone with the same coach and direct knowledge might chime in. It looks like that might not happen. For me, this is all kind of frustrating since I have 40 years in the marine industry doing electrical and electronics. If it hadn't been for the fact that it has been raining for weeks and the ground is a swamp, I would be under the coach digging into things. It just makes it simpler if someone with direct knowledge can point you in the right direction. I never expected this to be so difficult. But I don't give up easily. Chuck

[Kirk W]

There are many Bounders, as well as some other Fleetwood products which do have a circuit from the converter to float charge the chassis battery. The only one of them which I have direct knowledge of was on a 97 that had a fuse in that circuit and if memory serves, it also had a blocking diode. I believe that he had one of those combination power distribution panels with both the 120V circuit breakers and the 12V fuses mounted on the same one and the converter was located behind that panel. I think that fuse was not on the panel but behind it and in one of the "in line" fuse holders. Keep in mind that I'm stretching the limits of memory as my friend traded that RV about 10 years ago.

[mscans]

My Georgieboy (2005) did NOT have any charging system for the chassis battery other than the alternator so i added this http://www.lslproducts.net/TLSPage.html which did a great job whenever the house battery was charging. You will note on the top right that Winnebago, Coach House and Monaco apparently use this in some of their products. I don't know when that started but it is very easy to connect and works well.

 

Good luck and look at this or some similar unit to keep the chassis battery in good shape.

[oldjohnt]

If a person had no idea how or where his RV house battery charger charged or complimented his engine battery, a starting point would be to place a voltmeter on the engine battery and read its voltage, should be around 12.6 volts sitting there engine not running or RV not plugged to shore power. Then plug it up and if the voltage eventually rises (assuming engine battery isn't bad) to the 13 and 14+ range the RV charger is connected to and theoretically charging the engine battery. If engine battery voltage never changes regardless if RV is plugged in or not, probably NOT connecting to RV charger or else there's a blown protective fuse or breaker. Unless there's a separate circuit out of the RV charger (or EMS) designed and intended for charging the RV the engine "starting" battery, I still don't like the idea of hanging one engine "starting" battery in parallel with my four "Deep Cycle" bank of batteries when using my Smart Charger all set up for my Deep Cycle house battery application. A low energy battery tender or battery minder (trickle charger) would be my choice to keep an engine battery topped (but it shouldn't be needed just as your truck doesn't require such absent a current draw) off and kept separate from my bank of deep cycle house batteries, but that may be "old school" for more modern well equipped RV's. I do like the isolation relay emergency JUMP (to house battery bank) feature just in case my engine battery crapped out..........

 

Are we havin fun yet????????? RV in driveway as we speak getting ready for volunteer work at a Family Church Camp near Steubenville Ohio next week. 4 hrs per day light work in return for meals and full hookup RV site. Hope I don't wear out lol Then its our antique tractor show week then Colorado, Utah, Monument Valley, Grand Canyon, Zion, Yosemite, Kings Canyon and Sequoia, San Diego, Austin Texas and gotta get home in time to go to Florida lol

[chuckbear]

There are many Bounders, as well as some other Fleetwood products which do have a circuit from the converter to float charge the chassis battery. The only one of them which I have direct knowledge of was on a 97 that had a fuse in that circuit and if memory serves, it also had a blocking diode. I believe that he had one of those combination power distribution panels with both the 120V circuit breakers and the 12V fuses mounted on the same one and the converter was located behind that panel. I think that fuse was not on the panel but behind it and in one of the "in line" fuse holders. Keep in mind that I'm stretching the limits of memory as my friend traded that RV about 10 years ago.

Kirk, I now have confirmation from another owner that my Bounder does indeed charge both the engine battery and house batteries on 120 or generator if operating properly. I am waiting for him to send me the wiring diagram to start troubleshooting the system and determining just what needs to be fixed. Every day I learn a little more. Chuck

[Kirk W]

It was told to me that the converter/charger charges both the coach batteries and the engine battery when plugged in.

In reading your post again, I just realized that you didn't say that it ever did charge the chassis battery, only that you were told that it did. Since the feature was on some Fleetwood products but not all, I suspect that it may have been an option and yours never had it. Most motorhomes over the years have not had that connection. Neither of those which I have owned had it, but neither were built by Fleetwood so that may play a part. I'm wondering if there are any readers who own or have owned a Bounder of the years close to yours? If so, did theirs have the chassis battery charge line?

[chuckbear]

I don't know if it ever charged since I have only owned it a short period of time and did not have the opportunity to check the batteries until now. I found the cables to be very dirty, so removing, cleaning and coating the connections got me checking the battery voltage. One quick and easy check will be to see what the voltage is to the batteries with the battery disconnect switch on with the coach plugged in. According to the wiring diagram, etc. the battery disconnect switch needs to be engaged for the charger to work on shore power. Could it be that simple? Chuck

[oldjohnt]

QUESTION "One quick and easy check will be to see what the voltage is to the batteries with the battery disconnect switch on with the coach plugged in."

 

IF its plugged in and

IF the switch has batteries connected to Charger

IF the charger is on and working and there's no fuses blown or breakers tripped between charger and battery

 

 

Battery (assuming its basically okay with no bad cells or shorts) voltage will eventually rise to the 13 to 14+ Volt range subject to charger and battery condition.

 

IF its not plugged in (charger not working) OR

IF the switch from battery to charger is OPEN

 

Battery (if okay and charged up) voltage will remain around 12.6 volts.

 

 

QUESTION "According to the wiring diagram, etc. the battery disconnect switch needs to be engaged for the charger to work on shore power. Could it be that simple? Chuck"

 

YES ITS THAT SIMPLE the charger cant work unless plugged to shore power (or genset running and switched) and, of course, any battery to charger disconnect switch must be CLOSED so it can charge the battery..........................................

 

I still don't know if your charger has a circuit and if fused or not TO THE ENGINE BATTERY (NOT house battery bank only) If there's no connection from charger to engine battery (as many coaches) CHARGER CANT EVER CHARGE IT Well DUH lol

 

Hope this helps, were trying

 

PS Im obviously talking about a switch FROM batteries TO charger. If youre talking about a switch that disconnects any LOADS from batteries that's a different story. Even if no loads were on batteries, they can still be charged with a charger (or via alternator if connected and running). HOWEVER if there's some sort of a switch that disconnects any battery inputs (like charger or solar) if theres no load attached to the batteries, that's again different............

 

PS2 Again no warranty absent a wiring diagram, if anyone has a diagram or the exact same coach, go by what they say not me, as I'm in the dark here but still try my best. See what other owners of the same coach (or one who has actual diagram) have to say, My answer above about how to test may be wrong as rain

 

 

John T

[chuckbear]

I wish it was that simple but in fact the engine battery is still not charging from the onboard charger with the battery disconnect switch engaged but the coach batteries are. With a wiring diagram now in hand I can see that yes, the engine battery and coach battery should be charging but the engine battery is not. Since it has been raining for two weeks and I can't get more than 5 minutes of dry time to check anything, once the floods stop, I'll start troubleshooting. "If you're talking about a switch that disconnects any LOADS from batteries that's a different story." This is exactly what I'm talking about. I now know where to find the relay and fuses so I can figure this out soon, unless the rains continue for another 40 days and 40 nights, in which case, I'll be very snug on our boat. Chuck