$1000 fine for fueling at the wrong pump

[Big5er]

The Arizona law is weight related, not number of axles.

 

Please note the highlighted and enlarged operative word! You can roll the dice and take your chances.

 

uh, excuse me but didn't you say that the law was based on weight and NOT axles? And now you quote the law that says "weight of more than 26,000 pounds or having more than two axles" (same thing I posted, btw). You even highlighted the word "or".

 

Well color me confused. I'm just a dumb old redneck but doesn't "or" mean one OR the other? Weight OR number of axles?So, is the law based solely on weight, and the number of axles your vehicle has is totally irrelevant, like you said at first OR is the law based on weight of your vehicle or the number of axles it has as you claim in your second post? So which side of this debate are you on, because from your own posts it appears that you are disagreeing with yourself.

[mrfrank]

 

uh, excuse me but didn't you say that the law was based on weight and NOT axles? And now you quote the law that says "weight of more than 26,000 pounds or having more than two axles" (same thing I posted, btw). You even highlighted the word "or".

 

Well color me confused. I'm just a dumb old redneck but doesn't "or" mean one OR the other? Weight OR number of axles?So, is the law based solely on weight, and the number of axles your vehicle has is totally irrelevant, like you said at first OR is the law based on weight of your vehicle or the number of axles it has as you claim in your second post? So which side of this debate are you on, because from your own posts it appears that you are disagreeing with yourself.

 

You are, of course, correct. It's either or, not both. My disagreement is that many folks with coaches or toters with GVW's over 26,000 fill up in the RV lanes and not the truck lanes in order to avoid the tax and claim that that is legal just because they are driving an "RV" instead of a commercial tractor. The price of fuel may be higher in AZ, but not nearly as bad as CA. I fill up in AZ to avoid filling in CA. And for what it's worth, Arizona is not my state. Never has been and never will be!

[Bob Cochran]

Am item to consider you pay 18 cents tax at the auto island and 26 cents at the truck island. That means the tax per gallon you pay extra at the truck island is an additional 8 cents the difference. You all really don't believe you don't pay any tax on the auto island right?

[oletimer]

We leave Kansas in the middle of September and go to Texas until sometime in February, then head to the SW Deserts of New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, then Utah. I'm glad I have 250 gal of tanks, so I can fuel in New Mexico, then not have to again until Nevada. The last few years though, we seldom use the big truck stops(Flying J, TA, Petro, etc.) because even with the RV card, where I might someday get a free candy bar, they are to high. I feel sorry for the OTR truckers, because in all states, the big truck stops charge 10-20 cents more than others. Even when there is no big rig surcharges. I have never understood that. Dick T

[Big5er]

Dick, they have a captive market. Realistically the OTR truckers do not have the time or inclination to unhitch their trailers in order to find a smaller station to fill up. We (RVers) have numerous opportunities to fill at smaller stations. I am not a full timer and my truck is stored for periods longer than I like. I HAVE to get it out monthly and put some miles on it. When I get home from a trip I do not run out and fill my truck. Monthly, I locate the cheapest fuel in my area and I drive my truck there. I don't care if it is a small car nozzle or not and since I am not pulling the trailer, I am not worried about the size of the station either. I put a one or two hundred dollars in it and finish my drive around. I do it again next month. Eventually I will have it topped off. Needless to say I am very aware of diesel prices and you are 100% correct. The larger truck stops are always 10 cents higher. I suppose they are trying to pay for all that concrete they installed for truckers to park on.

[Twotoes]

I have the Flying J RV discount card. I was told that I get a .06 cents per gallon discount off the cash price if I fill up at the Truck pumps only but the discount was not given if I fill up at the Auto/RV island. If I am pulling my three axel 5th wheel with my two axel F-350 am I within the law in AZ using the Truck island?

[Big5er]

I have the Flying J RV discount card. I was told that I get a .06 cents per gallon discount off the cash price if I fill up at the Truck pumps only but the discount was not given if I fill up at the Auto/RV island. If I am pulling my three axel 5th wheel with my two axel F-350 am I within the law in AZ using the Truck island?

Arizona's additional fuel tax applies to "motor vehicles that USE FUEL on a highway", not trailers. What is the GVWR of your F-350? Less than 26,001 lbs, right? And it has how many axles does it have? According to the definition posted a couple of times in this thread, I think you will find that your LGT has nothing to worry about, except for being massively under powered.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

OK folks, here is a fun one for you.... My M2-112 has a sticker on the door jamb for a GVWR of over 30,000 pounds and It is also a private truck. The great state of Georgia hasn't figured out exactly what to do with larger trucks towing fifth wheels and the ONLY tag they would sell me states 26,000 pounds on the tag. The title also came back as a COMMERCIAL vehicle. I spent two days on the phone with the brilliant minds at the Georgia DMV and this is the only thing they could come up with. Over 26,000 pounds requires a class A CDL and they don't think you can have a private truck that size. On top of that, Georgia does have ONE non-commercial tag for over 26,000 pounds but that is only good within the state of Georgia, not outside the state.

 

They claimed that as long as the truck weight plus pin weight is less than 26,000 pounds (which it will be), I will be OK with this tag. Anyone else have an issue like this? How would this play out in AZ? Not that it matter a bit as I will fill up anywhere and make across the state on 190 gallons....

[Bob Cochran]

In Arizona all vehicles 1 ton or more are registered commercial no matter how it is used; not sure how MH are registered. My HDT registered weight is 25,950 lbs(you can specify this weight at time of registration) as a private truck(like a LDT) ande the thing I am still fighting is their insistence of making me pay a "Motor Carrier Fee" when my usage is clearly not a motor carrier. They keep coming back saying because of weight it has to be charged Motor Carrier Fee and I keep saying that determining motor carrier is based on definition not weight. Some have been successful in getting the Motor Carrier Fee dropped I have not had that success yet!!!! Oh and Arizona will not allow the change to MH no matter what you do to the sleeper.

[TXiceman]

Bob, don't you love it when people are paid to do a job and not think. No matter how wrong it is, you just keep on ding the same thing over and over.

 

Ken

[Walkerl]

Would be interesting to take it to court. They have to prove intent - you intended to buy the wrong fuel. Also "passenger carrying vehicle" is separate from trucks etc in the law. If it means all vehicles which carry any passenger then why not just say all motor vehicles - so the phrase must have a specific meaning but it isn't defined in their codes so is open to interpretation. It's listed with trucks etc so I would argue it is a bus.

 

Law authorizing the $1000 fine

28-5623. Civil penalty; use fuel purchaser; vendor refund; financial penalty prohibited; subsequent violations

A. Notwithstanding any other law, if a person INTENTIONALLY purchases use fuel for use in a use class motor vehicle that is not exempt pursuant to section 28-5432 from the weight fee prescribed in section 28-5433 and the person pays the use fuel tax rate for a light class motor vehicle, all of the following apply:

[jtr]

Thanks for posting this. We ran into a similiar deal in Oregon last week, It was 6 or 8 cents cheaper to fill at the island. The addendant told me to pull my truck around and fill up. Had to swipe my card twice but they didn't seem to mind.

 

Now I understand better and will try to stay away from truck stops. Plus I find it annoying that I have to estimate how much fuel I need to prepay for.

[SunJuniper]

Thanks for posting this. We ran into a similiar deal in Oregon last week, It was 6 or 8 cents cheaper to fill at the island. The addendant told me to pull my truck around and fill up. Had to swipe my card twice but they didn't seem to mind.

 

Now I understand better and will try to stay away from truck stops. Plus I find it annoying that I have to estimate how much fuel I need to prepay for.

Oregon is a different deal all together. Autos are REQUIRED to let the attendants pump your gas and run your card in the card reader.. been that way forever...

 

now. Diesel. you can let them run your card or not.. and you can pump your own Diesel *IF* you choose.. ive done it BOTH ways with the HDT both bobtail or pulling my 5er.

 

(I was born in Oregon)

[10ponies]

I will let everyone know how this progresses in the courts.

[Shallow Draft]

Looking forward to following this page.

[Bob Cochran]

Bob, don't you love it when people are paid to do a job and not think. No matter how wrong it is, you just keep on ding the same thing over and over.

 

Ken

Yea and I keep trying and probably should not expect a change but the motor carrier fee is $400!!!!! So I keep trying.

[Gunrok 02 LB7]

Not to hijack the thread, but GeorgiaHybrid, if you haven't already you might want to check out the Georgia class E and/or class F license. To the OP, good luck with the fine fiasco. Sounds like a couple of officers trying to get a few more brownie points with the boss.

[StarDreamers.us]

Perhaps this situation would make a great article for the folks in Livingston to write up as a service to members. How widespread is this situation? Since many of us have a range of travel before fill ups, we could avoid certain places if known. Thanks for sharing.

 

Safe Travels!

[Guest Pensauncola]

Interesting situation. Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention. I, for one, will not buy fuel in Arizona.

 

Arizona lawmakers passed a law. The State hired people to enforce the law. Why all the criticism of them doing their job? They are doing exactly what they are being paid to do.

[Walkerl]

I will let everyone know how this progresses in the courts.

Remember you can argue you had no intent to avoid the tax. Apparently the officer(s) who issued the citation felt you had not intent(per their statements to you mentioned in post #1) so their testimony or statements can be your best defense. The uniqueness of the law helps nullify the fact that you should have been aware of the different tax rates. If the judge listens and truly follows the law, it is very difficult to prove intent without assuming/showing you had knowledge.

 

Good luck!

[Bill & Janet Adams]

Not buy fuel in AZ because you have to pay a required 8 cents tax? With the diesel in AZ is currently $3.54, San Diego's lowest price is $3.77 and an kind of an RV friendly station is likely going to be higher. Anythony, TX is $3.81 but some NM and NV stations are running around $3.40-$3.50. So we will all boycott AZ and pay the taxes in other States. I guess NO ONE is going to fuel in OR where we have to pay 0.30/gallon more than the truckers. I generally wait to get to AZ to fuel my car as the prices there are usually at least 0.20/gallon cheaper that surrounding areas so I have no issue at all (even with a 200 gallon tank) paying and extra $10 when I need to top off as it is the law. Have I ever filled up without paying? Yep, but I always fuel at the truck island and take what I get.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Not to hijack the thread, but GeorgiaHybrid, if you haven't already you might want to check out the Georgia class E and/or class F license. To the OP, good luck with the fine fiasco. Sounds like a couple of officers trying to get a few more brownie points with the boss.

 

Gunrok,

 

I have a class "E" license. The DW is due to take her test in a month after a few more "training trips". I love how they do this, to get the license, you have to submit an avadavat stating that you have driven this type of truck for a period of time. In other words, you have to admit you are guilty of driving on the wrong license to get the right license. I just love the government's thinking at times....

[skp51443]

Perhaps this situation would make a great article for the folks in Livingston to write up as a service to members. How widespread is this situation? Since many of us have a range of travel before fill ups, we could avoid certain places if known. Thanks for sharing.

 

Safe Travels!

 

I passed this topic on to HQ, not sure what will be done but they are aware of the issue. I'm pretty sure they will do something, no way they want to have a bunch of HDT and DP folks outside the Escapade office with torches and pitchforks demanding the director's head because they weren't warned about this problem.

[Guest Pensauncola]

Not buy fuel in AZ because you have to pay a required 8 cents tax? With the diesel in AZ is currently $3.54, San Diego's lowest price is $3.77 and an kind of an RV friendly station is likely going to be higher. Anythony, TX is $3.81 but some NM and NV stations are running around $3.40-$3.50. So we will all boycott AZ and pay the taxes in other States. I guess NO ONE is going to fuel in OR where we have to pay 0.30/gallon more than the truckers. I generally wait to get to AZ to fuel my car as the prices there are usually at least 0.20/gallon cheaper that surrounding areas so I have no issue at all (even with a 200 gallon tank) paying and extra $10 when I need to top off as it is the law. Have I ever filled up without paying? Yep, but I always fuel at the truck island and take what I get.

 

Good point. I, for one, will not buy fuel in Arizona............because I don't plan on going there.

[Big5er]

Not buy fuel in AZ because you have to pay a required 8 cents tax? With the diesel in AZ is currently $3.54, San Diego's lowest price is $3.77 and an kind of an RV friendly station is likely going to be higher. Anythony, TX is $3.81 but some NM and NV stations are running around $3.40-$3.50. So we will all boycott AZ and pay the taxes in other States. I guess NO ONE is going to fuel in OR where we have to pay 0.30/gallon more than the truckers. I generally wait to get to AZ to fuel my car as the prices there are usually at least 0.20/gallon cheaper that surrounding areas so I have no issue at all (even with a 200 gallon tank) paying and extra $10 when I need to top off as it is the law. Have I ever filled up without paying? Yep, but I always fuel at the truck island and take what I get.

Bill, I notice you seem to have chosen the one place in Texas with higher prices. The "average" price for gas in Texas is $3.14, while the average cost in Arizone is $3.29. Logic says diesel prices are about the same difference. So yeah, I will fill up in Texas, drive to where ever I want to go and back to avoid Arizona's higher prices. I will grant you that prices may be higher in other states, and I do not mind paying whatever the taxes are for fuel, but I will not fuel up in a state that charges me EXTRA tax because I have a large motorhome.