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engine roughness...


rickeieio

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Way back in 2014, on the way to Alaska, the trusty Cummins started shake'n and idling a little rough. We took it to Cummins NorthWest in Anchorage, where they did lots of tests, ran an overhead (adjusted valves and injectors) and proceeded to not tighten everything properly. That resulted in our limping back in a week later with a broken rocker shaft and some bent pushrods. Total bill was over $2500, and the roughness continued.

 

I related that story here, and a Cummins employee who lives not too far away advised I take it to a shop near him, and provided the service manager's contact info. To say I procrastinated would be an understatement.

 

So, the middle of last month, I took the Volvo to that shop and said, "fix it." Original estimate was for two new injectors and a total bill of around $3000. Good news was, it made 480 hp at the wheels, way over what you would expect from a 500 hp motor. I called and they said come pick it up. So, we're sitting in a restaurant with friends 1/2 mile from the shop, and the phone rings. It's the shop saying they're not happy with things. Hey, I just drove 100 miles to pick up our truck, and now you say it ain't ready? I'm not pleased either.....

 

We headed over to the Cummins shop and I get to talk to John. After he explains some things, and asks some more questions, the faith meter for John has gone way up. This kid (hey, he's under 50) seems to be a mechanic, not a parts changer. I talked to John a few days later and they've tried replacing all the injectors and the actuators, only to have the problem persist. They even swapped a known good injector for one throwing a code, and the code stayed on the same cylinder......until they shut off the engine and restarted.

 

Now, two weeks later, they've narrowed it down to the IFSM (Integrated Fuel System Management) plate, about $1,700. When John first threw that one at me, I did a bunch of research on it. Everything that controls the fuel on an ISX is attached to that plate. At least they put all my good parts back on so I won't have a massive parts bill, but the labor is "out of control", in the words of the shop guy I just spoke to.

 

Merry Christmas to me............

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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Hey at $135/hr how bad could it be? Let's see add in lunch, breaks, shop supplies and MFAT. Now, Rick, don't you feel better?

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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At least he is chasing down the actual problem and not just changing parts based on what code the computer is throwing. Hopefully this will fix the problem once and for all.

2017 Entegra Anthem 44A

SOLD - 2004 Volvo 780. 465hp and 10sp Auto Shift (from 2010~2017)

SOLD - 2009 Montana 3400RL

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Yes, it's refreshing to talk to a "mechanic". As machinery gets more complicated, mere humans can't ( or don't care to) understand all the systems involved.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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Sounds like you are working with a Technician not just a mechanic. Someone that is focused on solving the problem and not just changing some parts, sending you down the road only to have to go somewhere else to have something else fixed or changed. Oh wait, isnt that what has been done to you so far.

Marcel

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Yes, the filter was getting close to being at the end of it's service life. But after changing it, and two injectors, the roughness persisted. The guy who was in charge of our truck mentioned his suspicion of the IFSM plate being cracked, and hopefully the head was okay. Putting clear tubes in the supply and return lines showed a lot more bubbles in the return side. Since the problem persisted with 6 new injectors, it points to the plate is defective. I hope to find out soon.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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There are some great sites giving diagrams and background on the system. I'd seen the one you linked, you must have piqued. :P Pretty neat system, but like everything in life, has some compromises.

 

In studying this system, I've come to realize, I'm getting like someone who knows a little about medicine, just enough to be harmful. ;)

 

Off subject, but it's times like this that I wonder if I missed my calling. I'm not complaining, farming has been good to me, but I really enjoy the study of all things mechanical.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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Got an email saying my truck is done, with an attached invoice. We may need to chat before I write a check. It seems they did a good job of keeping the parts bill reasonable, but billed me for a lot of trial and error, swapping parts. More when the dust clears.

 

Speaking of dust, is Vaseline a good dust suppressor? :o

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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Got an email this afternoon, saying the service manager had reviewed my bill, and had made some "adjustments", to the tune of $2200.xx. Hopefully, this is fixed.

 

In the end, the shop did a lot of parts swapping trying to track down a problem that kept moving. On 12/29/17, the shop foreman told me he thought it might be the IFSM or perhaps a cracked head. Well, he nailed it, the IFSM had a flaw. letting in air. But, it appears the protocol is to follow the symptom tree. So, they swapped injectors, multiple times, exchanged actuators, made multiple dyno runs, and ran up a bunch of hours, to discover the shop foreman was right.

 

I am familiar with symptom trees, aka diagnostic trees. They really help when you're working on something where your understanding of the system is limited. But it would appear the the shop foreman was experienced enough to "jump ahead", if not for policy.

 

So, while it's still an expensive repair, I know the truck is putting 480 hp to the ground, leak down and injectors are great, and the motor should outlast this bag 'o bones.

 

Heading down to pick it up tomorrow. I want to thank an un-named forum member who may have had a hand in reasoning with the service manager in getting the price adjusted. It pays to have friends. I owe him some cigars.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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Rick,

 

I posted before when I had problems and needed my fan clutch replaced. I had also replaced a front leveling valve and just wanted them to check the level with a tool Hendrickson makes to be sure the bag is at the right height. The adjustment takes loosening two screws in the bracket and slightly twisting the valve body to achieve the correct height, basically a 5 minute job. When I got my bill the invoice showed 2.5 hours labor at $139/hr for the adjustment. I asked if they had replaced my new valve-- no parts. Long story short when I raised h**l about this charge the main service manager who I usually deal with came over and asked the problem. When I showed him, he said that is a 5 minute adjustment and they don't charge. For the " misunderstanding" he knocked off the labor charge plus another $200. Moral to the story: Best to develop a relationship with one or two service writers and make sure you review the bill with them. BTW for newbies dealing with a dealer shop. Each repair should include a narrative on your bill that details exactly what was done to justify the charge.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Unfortunately, as machines become more complex, the customer is forced to go to the "company" for repairs. So, the company becomes larger and more structured, leading to "procedures". Having to follow said procedure, when a good mechanic had already diagnosed, wasted a bunch of man hours, which the service dep't needs to bill, somewhere.

 

Older, simple machines are easier to work on, but have other disadvantages as well. Life's a compromise.

 

We're headed out this morning to fetch the truck. It should run so nice and smooooth........

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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It was indeed the IFSM fixture/plate. It now runs so much smoother it's hard to believe it's the same motor. I picked it up Weds.

 

The shop changed two injectors, same problem. Swapped the injectors around, code said it was still the same cylinders. Leak down test and checking the injectors showed all good. Put in 6 new injectors, same two cylinders throwing code. Then, after MANY hours and two weeks, they put in clear lines and saw air bubbles in the return side, just as the shop foreman had suggested on 12/29. During all this, they ran it on the dyno at least 3 times, and it put 480 to the ground each time.

 

So, I gave the go-ahead to fix it, and a week later they emailed me saying it was done. The IFSM plate was about $1500, and the labor was $5500. Other various bits brought the total bill to over $8800. Fortunately, I have a guardian angel who talked to the right people and got a lot of the unnecessary labor dropped. Final bill was $6650. Still not cheap.

 

The really frustrating part of this saga is that I took it to the Cummins shop in Anchorage, lost over a week and $2500 and they fixed nothing. Nobody ever said these trucks are cheap. But what price do you put on safety?

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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Rick- nothing worse than a diesel with the sniffles - but it is annoying when the rv outfit uses $ that could otherwise be put to good use in the motorcycle classifieds...

Yes, I'm hoping that we'll now get better mileage, thus freeing up funds for a new bike for the wife. She got a new one last year and isn't happy with it. Headed for Cleveland Thursday to go to a motorcycle show so she can test fit a few.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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