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Mounted offroad lights/ light bars


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I am hoping Big5er and a few others will weigh in on Texas law concerning offroad lighting please. A friend of mine was stopped and given a warning for having a light bar mounted above his windshield on his jeep and it was not turned on. Care to weigh in?

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No law against having a "bar" mounted on the jeep. Now, having a "light" mounted there is totally different, but a bar ain't a light until it is on.

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Sounds like a fishing expedition on the part of the officer involved. Like the "it looked like you were weaving a bit back there", or the "You crossed the yellow line about 1/2 mile back" or the "I think you have a short in your taillight, it was flickering a bit" stops. They can't stop you for no reason but they can sure dream up a BUNCH of reasons. Just keep your mouth shut and don't agree to or volunteer anything. An old partner of mine now works for the Georgia Highway Patrol and has told me MANY times that he busted people for having something illegal because he stopped them and then asked to search the car.

 

All they had to do was say "no" and he would have left them alone.

 

Unlike Big5er, a LOT of the officers are NOT your friend and pull over targeted vehicles to do a quick look and sniff to see if they can find anything.

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Phil, you sound like you want one of those bars on your truck too. ;-)

 

Don't forget that there may be local laws in play as well. Not so sure about TX in particular, but it's quite common for other states and local laws to prohibit off-road lighting being installed if the lights could be operated by the driver. That's why you'll find a lot of them sold with covers in certain places (California comes to mind at the state level, but there are quite a few others). Given how easy it would be to turn such a light on and off from the driver's seat (i.e. when a cop isn't in view), it's a pretty reasonable requirement. If the light wasn't wired to where the driver could turn it on (i.e. mounted but not hooked up), then Phil's right on the money about it not really being a light at that point.

 

It also matters if he installed the light bar himself or if someone did it for him, but in that case it would be a violation of federal law (though Texas law copies a lot of the federal standard). Even if not in use, the catch-all regarding lights that interfere with required lighting would apply, light on or not.

 

Do you know what county, city, etc. the ticket was in?

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Sounds like a fishing expedition on the part of the officer involved. Like the "it looked like you were weaving a bit back there", or the "You crossed the yellow line about 1/2 mile back" or the "I think you have a short in your taillight, it was flickering a bit" stops. They can't stop you for no reason but they can sure dream up a BUNCH of reasons. No need to "dream" up anything. There is a whole big book of laws that give you a reason to stop a vehicle. Just keep your mouth shut and don't agree to or volunteer anything. An old partner of mine now works for the Georgia Highway Patrol and has told me MANY times that he busted people for having something illegal because he stopped them and then asked to search the car. A legal stop followed by a legal search is still.....uh...legal. Duh.

 

All they had to do was say "no" and he would have left them alone.

 

Unlike Big5er, a LOT of the officers are NOT your friend and pull over targeted vehicles to do a quick look and sniff to see if they can find anything.

Paranoid much?

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
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Phil, you sound like you want one of those bars on your truck too. ;-)

Hey, I already have one on my truck. It has a lot of white LED's in it. And some red ones, and some blue ones......

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MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
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It was in Madisonville TX. I honestly have never ran mine on the street and I cant stand being blinded by someone else with one. But, I have a huge problem being told that I can not have an offroad light mounted on my vehicle at all. I have a call in to a friend who is our Justice of the Peace for clarification. Just looking for a specific statute that makes it illegal to have them even mounted. I have had offroad lights of some form for 20+ years. The trooper who wrote the warning said that they were instructed by Austin to crack down on light bars.

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Just looking for a specific statute that makes it illegal to have them even mounted.

You won't find one. Like I said, there is no law against having a bar mounted. There are laws against having the lights mounted there but it isn't a light until it's on.

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

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I said no to a search in Texas.

 

2 hours later, 4 departments, 6 officers, and two dogs later, i went on my way after i put the vehicle back together.

 

During that time, at least one constitutional violation happened.

 

I was only worried about them planting something.

 

I would say no again, i guess because i am a d16k.

 

I didnt see any dr pepper cans in the back of the car, so i assume it wasnt big 5er.

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LOL, Exile, I think we would get along just fine. Dad put paid to the '"let me see your papers" style of government in Germany during 1945. I was raised around men who had served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam and who understood their rights. As long as the stop is a tier one one, I will not volunteer any info and they will never search my vehicle. I will ask if I am free to go and that is all they will get other than a drivers license if I am driving.

 

They can ask anything they want to, I am NOT required to answer. The typical ploy my buddy uses is the classic "If you don't have anything to hide, you won't mind me searching then do you?" If people only understood that all they had to say was no, I do not consent to a search and ask if they are free to go. If the police say no, you can't leave then ask the police "What is your RAS for a detention and search?"

 

Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of police officers I meet (I hang out around police gun and supply company a lot) are great guys and gals. There are some however that get my hackles up a bit. When they start or say something about "civilians" I have to remind them that unless they have a military ID, they are part of the civil authority and by definition, a "civilian" just like I am.

 

I guess I am just a cantankerous old fart that still believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

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Funny story. In the early 70's my wife and I were driving from College Station Texas with a friend and his wife to visit my friends wife's parents. They owned an old home which had been built and handed down through her family and was in the shape of a castle with turret bedrooms and a massive dining room and dining room table that the house was literally built around. My friend's wife was a typical "sweet, naive, love the world" hippie type that you couldn't help but like. We are tooling toward Harlingen and the lights come on. This huge Texas trooper comes to the window, I ask the problem, he looks at my long hair, my friend was Texas A&M Corp so he has short hair and doesn't get a second glance, but no answer but license and registration. Next statement "I smell marijuana in the car, you guys smoking?" Me:"No sir. I'm trying to get into medical school and those things scare me". Him: "Right, what's in the brown bag in the back seat?" My friend's sweet, naive wife: "Apples and cheese, (which it really was) want some?" Him: "Out of the car!" The search ended ok and we were sent on our way, but no way was I gonna tell that fella on that lonely stretch of highway he couldn't look!

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They can ask anything they want to, I am NOT required to answer. The typical ploy my buddy uses is the classic "If you don't have anything to hide, you won't mind me searching then do you?" If people only understood that all they had to say was no, I do not consent to a search and ask if they are free to go. If the police say no, you can't leave then ask the police "What is your RAS for a detention and search?"

I have never advocated on this forum for allowing searches of your vehicle but in my personal opinion not answering a question is just plain ignorant. You will answer any and every question that the stranger in the next site over or in a parking lot asks. Questions about your next destination or anything and everything about your truck, your traveling adventures, and the RV life in general, but when the cop asks you come back with " I am NOT required to answer" . Again, in my personal opinion, you have your priorities wrong. How can your honest answers cause you an issue....unless your "honest" answers don't jive with the facts. Remember when dad asked where you had been? He wasn't looking for "over at a friends" when he already knew you were at the house he had told you not to go to.

 

And yes, after a traffic stop is concluded, you are free to go. Now I can hold your vehicle for a limited time for reasonable suspicion but you are free to go. Been through 2 appeals so far and haven't lost the case yet, all based on my nose. 14 pounds of marijuana and $68,000 but just like you said, HE was free to go. Call a friend or a taxi, it made me no never mind, but he could go. I was keeping the vehicle until a dog arrived.

 

Consenting to a search and "volunteering any info" are two totally different things. You obviously missed a lesson those men that served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam taught. They understood right from wrong and still respected authority. You are so busy protecting your rights (that it seems your father preserved for you) you have forgotten common civility when it comes to interacting with someone in authority. I'm sorry, but it is people like you that are the reason I am so anxious to retire.

 

And by the way: No I am NOT a 'civilian' just like you. I've got my scars from serving my country, both in the military and in the law enforcement world. Want to compare?

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
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Phil,

 

We might just have to disagree on this one. Dad is still kicking at 94 and still understands and taught me basic civility dealing with authority. Like I said, probably 95% of the officers out there are good, decent people making life better for the rest of us. The other 5% have issues that don't sit well when forced upon me. If I am pulled over and you want to chit chat about the weather, the truck, our fiver, your aunt Betty's oatmeal cookies or other innocent things, I don't have a problem. If you come up to the side of my vehicle barking orders or claiming something that never happened or similar BS, don't expect the person on the other end to be civil. One thing that dad did teach was that respect is earned. I will ALWAYS respect the uniform, I don't always respect the person wearing it.

 

The last time I was stopped, the officer started off nice so I was civil to him and even told him where we were going (back home) and where we had been (to an RV dealer in Knoxville). At that point I was told to get out of the truck and grilled on the side of the road as he KNEW no one would would just take a drive on a Saturday with a Freightliner. He "knew" I was lying because no one would spend that much in fuel costs to exercise a truck (it had been sitting for a few weeks and I told him I just wanted to drive it and get it up to temp for the 250 miles round trip). He was young, WAY too authoritative and kept trying to get me to agree that I was pulling RV's commercially without the truck being registered as a commercial truck.

 

The two interactions with officers that I had before that were when going thru a license checkpoints, I talked to both of those officers about our firearms and why we prefered what each of us carried. Didn't have anything else to do and enjoyed BS'ing with both of them for about 10 minutes as there was not any traffic. That is NOT volunteering information, that is chit chatting on the side of the road. It was not germain to the reason I was talking to them (license and insurance checkpoint) and everything was good. The last trooper though even wanted to see my fuel receipts and called me a liar when I told him I didn't keep them. THAT is when we went way past the "civil" mode of speaking. That particular gentleman also said something about us "civilians" trying to run around and break the law by not having the proper paperwork to haul RV's (still trying to get me to confess best I could tell) but he sure didn't like the response I gave him to the "civilian" remark.

 

I appreciate your service in the military more than you will ever realize as I grew up among men that I considered heros, was named after one of dad's loaders that didn't make it thru the battle of the bulge and will ALWAYS respect anyone who has made the decision to protect our country. Having said that however, unless you are active duty, reserve or National Guard, you are now a civilian and ex-military. Yes you are an officer of the law but civilian law, not military law. That is where we will probably disagree but for some of these kids out there trying to act like they are in the military instead of law enforcement, they need to understand the difference.

 

Tomorrow as we celebrate the 240th birthday of this great nation, one that came into being by the sacrifices and service of military men and women, we need to recognise that honor is theirs and should be reserved for them.

 

I would love to sit down someday and talk about a lot of things with you over a Dr Pepper and personally thank you for your service. By the way, just a guess but did you happen to be a Marine?

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As some folks on the forum may recall I have been known to get both of me feet into my big mouth at times and often little good results.......but.....perhaps I can only put one foot in my mouth on this post.

 

For several years we took Dolly-the-paint-horse to winter-trail-ride around Wickenburg, AZ..........now AZ DOT seems unable to wrap their minds around the valid concept of a HDT RV..........BUT....... AZ seems very happy to allow almost any UTV / ATV to share the secondary roads and seems to not really care very much how INTENSE the lights of these OFF-ROAD-VEHICLES are when they are driving on the road.

 

Vulture Peak road South out of Wickenburg is a VERY dangerous drive some nights when some of the ATV's drive on the highway with ALL of the INTENSE off-road lights blazing.......When I am head-on meeting these Intense lights I have a slight advantage of elevated view to help mitigate some of the intense blinding, however when ever the intense off-road light come from behind I simply take the very first wide shoulder that I can safely stop on and just let the ATV(s) pass me.........our BIG side mirrors are overwhelmed by the off-road lighting.

 

I have a Honda quad but I NEVER drive the Honda on the highway at night simply because the stock lighting is very poor and my Two- Four inch square LED off-road lights are WAY too intense for highway use.

 

Many decades ago I was schooled in intense-light-use with Aircraft Landing Lightings.........

Many commercial / military/ and larger business aircraft utilize PAR64 sealed beam lamps often in the 600 to 1,000 watt range with candle powers 600,000 to +1,000,000.....gulp, thats a lota lighting.....

 

Driving a 8 inch sealed beam in excess 600K Cp is a very hot application and the hottest of the lamps had VERY short lives (-18 hours or less).

 

To make matters worse most operators tended to use these lamps at or below 10,000 altitude as recognition lights as well as lights to light the runways so these lights were used for many more hours than originally intended for runway lighting.

 

Having a knack for working for folks that tended to operate aircraft in very third-world locations I was cursed with very few mechanics, and scarce parts in places with no UPS or FedEx service so......it was best to not let too many parts break on the aircraft.

Often in these nameless-nowhere-locations we used light signals instead of radios so we tended to flash these large lamps and I started to notice a odd thing........these “flashed-lamps” lasted longer than “normal-non-flashed lamps”...... what we were doing was reducing the “duty-cycle” of the lamp and vastly reducing the overall operating temperatures of these “hot-rod” lamps.

 

I gathered a few like-minded “flasher-geeks” and before I knew it I was spearheading a design and certification program to “pulse” these lamps on a huge population of aerospace applications. Some decades later the “Pulse” concept has grown and become widely accepted.

 

The real point that I would like to make is that with “Intense-Lights” comes REAL responsibilities of how these lights are used and aimed......

 

When landing a aircraft with these intense lights it was VERY bad manners to leave these intense landing lights ablaze while turning into opposing aircraft holding or in taxi …....it was UN-professional and it highly compromised the other crews night vision for extended periods after the flash event.

Maybe our “rights” are being tarnished by being hassled over some off-road lights mounted on your rig but it is likely that some bone-head abused folks by dangerously blinding other drivers while trying to impress other bone-heads.

 

Ok if I've offended bone-headed-flashers........that's fine.

 

As high-intensity LED off-road-lights become cheaper we will likely be subjected to more and more potentially dangerous intense light-abuse on the highways.

 

As for the “bad-cop-thing” …...I tend to stop more cops, then they stop me........a few years ago a AZ cop turned around and pulled me over and informed me that my trailer tail lights were intermittent.....so he held his big Maglight steady while I fished out a big flake of Dolly's hay that had fouled the trailer plug........very helpful cop.....maybe I am so darn ugly no one wants to search me and I drive like a old lady most days.........

 

Drive on.......(don't become blinded by the......Light)

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As 5er stated the light is only an issue if the light is activated. This also hold true for emergency vehicle lighting. Just having the lights mounted to the vehicle is not illegal but once turned on you better be authorized or you can find yourself in all kinds of legal hot water. My pickup has lights/siren installed. I have driven the truck thru many different states and never had any issues. I have even been pulled over for traffic violations, but never a single question about any of the public safety equipment in my personal vehicle. Just issued a citation where a citation was deserved and sent on my way. Even my buddy was pulled over in California when a CHP spotted the lights & siren speakers on his personal P/U (Texas plates). Where he was, emergency lights are only allowed with a permit. His truck was not recognized as one of the locally permitted vehicles so he was pulled over to be checked out. Once established he was not local and just passing thru no other questions about the red lights on his truck.

 

On our old Jeep I had/have 4 off road lights. 2 pointed down the road and 1 pointed at the ditch on each side of the road in an attempt to spot any wildlife on the road (or about to be on the road) on dark roads. I never had any issues with those lights. They were used on the road but just like high beams, as soon as another vehicle was spotted the lights were turned off. The only time I ever used the lights on the road with traffic was when I burned up a wire in the vehicles headlight circuit (wire wore thru and shorted) so I used the right ditch light to get back to the RV site. It was not pointed at traffic but provided enough light for me to see. I intend to install similar lights, but LED, on our current Jeep too.

 

I understand they are wanting to crack down on these knuckle heads who install these off road lights and run around with them on for no reason. I live near a high school and every kid with a jacked up 4x4 now has a LED light bar installed. Amazing how many have them on even during the day.

 

If you were cited for the lights you should have no problem getting the ticket dismissed when the officer admits the lights were not on.

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All I can say is "Thank GOD we live in a country where most police officers want to help the normal guy trying to obey the law." Almost every stop I've ever been involved in was polite and professional--to make sure I was doing my end to make everybody safer. I respect that.

 

The only time I've ever been REALLY pissed at officers was a border stop at Canada. Lets just say 4 officers extensively searched a family minivan & luggage (4 teens and a 6mo baby) for over an hour because they wouldn't believe we were not bringing any flowers back from a funeral. Really! They asked us over and over if we had any live plants and where the flowers were. This was after 9/11. Great priorities.

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Guess I stirred up a little mess with this one. LOL Not my intention... ANywho, I got an email back from my Judge buddy who stated that DPS has sent out a message explaining that by simply having the lights mounted on the vehicle outside of the auxillary lighting specs it was an offense even if the light was never turned on. I obviously have a huge problem with his answer and I have reached out to Rigid Industries and some other resources with legal teams available to try and get some help with this. I have sold and installed hundreds of off-road lights over the years and run them myself. And they are all considered off-road use only and, in my opinion, should not be considered auxillary lighting when the are not turned on for street or highway use. So, I will continue digging in hopes of keeping this from getting worse. I sure do not intend to remove mine if I don't have to.

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Most States allow the Department of Transportation (or equivalent) to generate Regulations outside of the State Statutes. Statutes are passed by legislatures and generally are checked for being constitutional. Regulations are just made up by the head of the Department. Often, these Regulations are stuck down when the courts or the legislatures review them.

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I surprised that your judge buddy doesn't have issues with that. I am also surprised by his answer, because the Texas Transportation code is very clear about what is a "light". Texas is also very clear about how many driving lights you may have on your vehicle....you can mount 57 gazillion on your truck but you better not turn on more than 4 of them.

Ask your judge buddy what statute DPS claims is being violated by mounting a light on a vehicle. This should be good.

Most States allow the Department of Transportation (or equivalent) to generate Regulations outside of the State Statutes. Statutes are passed by legislatures and generally are checked for being constitutional. Regulations are just made up by the head of the Department. Often, these Regulations are stuck down when the courts or the legislatures review them.

Texas law allows for the "adoption" of Federal laws but they must be specifically adopted. The Federal 108 standard covers "required" and a few "non required" lights but all are in reference to lights used on a public roadway. There are no regs, to the best of my knowledge, that address any lighting device that is exclusively off road. On the road yes, off road, no. Just like you don't have to have registration, insurance, a license, brake lamps, turn signals, seat belts or any other required equipment for that old beater truck that grandpa uses around the farm. The one that hasn't left the pasture in 12 years that grandpa mounted that LED light bar on because the rats ate the wires to the headlights.

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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Texas law allows for the "adoption" of Federal laws but they must be specifically adopted. The Federal 108 standard covers "required" and a few "non required" lights but all are in reference to lights used on a public roadway. There are no regs, to the best of my knowledge, that address any lighting device that is exclusively off road. On the road yes, off road, no. Just like you don't have to have registration, insurance, a license, brake lamps, turn signals, seat belts or any other required equipment for that old beater truck that grandpa uses around the farm. The one that hasn't left the pasture in 12 years that grandpa mounted that LED light bar on because the rats ate the wires to the headlights.

 

True, if Texas wants to incorporate the federal standard into state law. But the federal standard applies whether adopted or not--but you can't send someone to a judge in TX for violating what Texas hasn't adopted. It's generally pretty safe to say that if a manufacturer is using the "off road" disclaimer, they're announcing that they don't comply with the federal standard. And that disclaimer has absolutely no meaning--"we recognize that a seller has no control over the use of a product after it is sold". Merely marketing it in use on a vehicle, even if a disclaimer is used, is enough to make it motor vehicle equipment--especially when doing things like selling vehicle-specific parts (e.g. a Jeep mounting bracket).

 

Under Texas law, there's this catch-all:

 

§ 547.3215. USE OF FEDERAL STANDARD. Unless specifically prohibited by this chapter, lighting, reflective devices, and associated equipment on a vehicle or motor vehicle must comply

with:

(1) the current federal standards in 49 C.F.R. Section 571.108; or

(2) the federal standards in that section in effect, if any, at the time the vehicle or motor vehicle was manufactured.

 

And in 49 CFR 571.108, there's this catch-all:

No additional lamp, reflective device or other motor vehicle equipment shall be

installed that impairs the effectiveness of lighting equipment required by the

standard.

Note that neither one makes reference to whether a light is in use or not, simply whether it is installed or on the vehicle. And vehicle equipment under Texas law is "a system, part, or device that is

manufactured or sold as original or replacement equipment or as a vehicle accessory" (or protective clothing, which isn't relevant here).

 

If the light bar isn't a fog, auxiliary, or spotlamp, it has to be aimed such that the >300 candlepower part of the beam (essentially all of the light bar's beam if it's worth anything) has to land within 75 feet:

(a) A motor vehicle lamp or illuminating device, other than a headlamp, spotlamp, auxiliary lamp, turn signal lamp, or emergency vehicle or school bus warning lamp, that projects a beam with an intensity brighter than 300 candlepower shall be directed so that no part of the high-intensity portion of the beam strikes the roadway at a distance of more than 75 feet from the vehicle.

 

Could the light bar be determined to be some other type of light? TX law doesn't even attempt to define the various types of auxiliary lights (fog, spot, passing, etc.), but does define how they can be mounted and when they can be activated. In the case of a roof-mounted light bar, it would be too high to be any of those types of lights. There may be some regulatory language or case law that covers their definitions, but again, the language is all about being equipped with various items, whether or not actually in use at the time you are stopped. Is the vehicle equipped if the light is laying in the back seat or if it isn't wired up? Probably not. Does it count if the light can't be activated somehow by the driver? Probably not. But if it's mounted, wired, and there's a switch inside, it's hard to argue that the vehicle isn't equipped. If the lights are covered or a fuse under the hood is pulled, you're probably not looking too bad--unless you're pulling the fuse as the officer is approaching...

 

 

Here are the sections for various lights Texas allows beyond what's in the federal standard. Keep in mind that most states limit the total number of forward lights that can be on at a time (usually to 4, including Texas):

§ 547.327. SPOTLAMPS PERMITTED. (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with not more than two spotlamps.

( B) A spotlamp shall be aimed so that no part of the high-intensity portion of the beam strikes the windshield, window, mirror, or occupant of another vehicle in use.

 

§ 547.328. FOG LAMPS PERMITTED. (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with not more than two fog lamps.

( B) A fog lamp shall be:

(1) mounted on the front of the vehicle at a height from 12 to 30 inches; and

(2) aimed so that no part of the high-intensity portion of the beam from a lamp mounted to the left of center on a vehicle projects a beam of light at a distance of 25 feet that is higher than four inches below the level of the center of the lamp.

© Lighted fog lamps may be used with lower headlamp beams as specified by Section 547.333.

 

§ 547.329. AUXILIARY PASSING LAMPS PERMITTED. (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with no more than two auxiliary passing lamps.

( B) An auxiliary passing lamp shall be mounted on the front of the vehicle at a height from 24 to 42 inches.

© An auxiliary passing lamp may be used with headlamps as specified by Section 547.333.

 

§ 547.330. AUXILIARY DRIVING LAMPS PERMITTED. (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with no more than two auxiliary driving lamps.

( B) An auxiliary driving lamp shall be mounted on the front of the vehicle at a height from 16 to 42 inches.

© Auxiliary driving lamps may be used with headlamps as specified by Section 547.333.

 

 

DPS has sent out a message explaining that by simply having the lights mounted on the vehicle outside of the auxillary lighting specs it was an offense even if the light was never turned on.

In the same chapter I've referenced above, DPS has the ability to adopt rules necessary to implement the standard. What that process is or where (if at all) they're published might be harder to find. What it sounds like is that they've determined the light bar to be an auxiliary light, and whether the driving or passing version (which determines when it can be used), it would be outside the mounting height requirement when on the roof. The language is "may be equipped with" when mounted <42", not "may be used when".

And they are all considered off-road use only and, in my opinion, should not be considered auxillary lighting when the are not turned on for street or highway use. So, I will continue digging in hopes of keeping this from getting worse. I sure do not intend to remove mine if I don't have to.

Regardless of opinion, whether you turn them on or not doesn't matter one bit. I would argue, based on intent, that a light that is disabled from somewhere other than the passenger compartment, doesn't have to be totally removed. But just a few nights ago I had one of these lights flipped on after flashing a (go figure) lifted pickup with it's high beams on. I'm sure that wouldn't have happened if I was driving a Charger, and it's the reason that even if you wouldn't use them on the road, there are plenty of people that would to the detriment of our collective safety. It sucks, but the bad apples spoil it for everyone.

45' 2004 Showhauler -- VNL300, ISX, FreedomLine -- RVnerds.com -- where I've started to write about what I'm up to

Headlight and Fog Light Upgrades http://deepspacelighting.com

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Dave, all of that is great except that Title 7, which includes all of Section 547 is covered by this:

 

Sec. 542.001. VEHICLES ON HIGHWAYS. A provision of this subtitle relating to the operation of a vehicle applies only to the operation of a vehicle on a highway unless the provision specifically applies to a different place. Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

 

None of the sections you listed apply to anything not USED on a highway and the Federal statute that you listed plainly says "impairs" the effectiveness. Mounting a light bar on the roof or bumper does not "impair" anything unless you are actually covering the factory lights.

The statutes you listed about fog lights, spot lights and passing lights are not applicable to this topic. The driving light is, but again a light isn't a light until it is ON. I hate those LED bars when they are used on the road as much as anyone else. The advantage I have is being able to do something about them, if I am at work, but no matter how many statutes you quote does not change the fact that if it is not on, it is NOT illegal. As you posted a driving light may not " project a beam with an intensity brighter than 300 candlepower" and "shall be directed so that no part of the high-intensity portion of the beam strikes the roadway at a distance of more than 75 feet from the vehicle". If it has no "beam" and isn't brighter than 300 candlepower (which off has no candle power) then it is not an illegal driving light.

 

And trying to claim that others "might" use off road lights illegally as justification for citing someone else for having one mounted is BS. Someone else might speed, drink while driving or run stop signs also, but you can't stop and cite me for those offenses if I am not doing them. Mounting a turbo charger on my vehicle is not "intent" to speed. And Texas law does not make "intent" illegal. I intend to speed tomorrow, but I can not be cited for it until I actually do it, not when I think about it.

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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The vehicle is being operated on a highway though, while equipped with lights not permitted. It doesn't say that it only applies to a piece of equipment used on a highway. In fact, It's still on there, whether or not in use, and whether used or not doesn't change what it is. If the standard only applied to lights when they were on, a manufacturer could build a car with whatever equipment they wanted, or leave out whatever they wanted, and say that the vehicle isn't being used on a highway sitting on the dealer's lot. That doesn't fly.

 

The light bar's high intensity would definitely interfere--it makes turn signals, and the normal high and low beams harder to see. The standard has a number of sections limiting the intensity of lights relative to the turn signals (and/or requiring the turn signals to be brighter). It would also make it harder to judge the width and distance of a vehicle approaching with one.

 

The section about a seller having no control as to how something is used is precisely a regulation targeting what someone might do, like it or not.

 

Unfortunately, we're both reading the same stuff and coming to different conclusions--which means the law in TX probably isn't well written. It would be very black and white if Texas specifically addressed lights not used on the highway like California does. There off-road lights are permitted to be installed, but with certain conditions that make sure they're truly an off-road light.

 

And while we disagree, if the DPS and the judge mentioned are determining the lights to be auxiliary lights, there is a mounting height requirement that isn't complied with. If that determination stands, moving the light bar down to a height between 16 and 42 inches would appear to make it legal under Texas law, references to federal standard notwithstanding. And if it is an auxiliary light, not subject to the limitations in 547.305, you'd be able to even use it on the road.

 

Mounting a turbo charger on my vehicle is not "intent" to speed.

Not intent to speed--many places define operating a vehicle modified to increase it's top speed as intent to race, which carries penalties, whether you actually do or not. ;-)

 

I don't like strict liability crimes at all--there should always be an intentional act, and there should always be an element of harm demonstrated. Crimes like speeding* and drunk driving, where a prosecutor just has to prove a number are easier to find guilt--but also lead to charges where the criminal act may have been perfectly safe. Driving a car with a light bar that isn't on doesn't actually harm anyone, but snags the OP. I don't see where the code gets into enough detail, but if it were clear that operation of a vehicle with (in this case) an off-road light bar installed was prima facie evidence of a violation of the section on operating an "other" light, the OP could present a case that the lights hadn't been used on the highway or that the operation was otherwise safe, the same way you can with speeding in Texas.

 

*Texas is one of a very few states where speed limits are not absolute. http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/laws.html

45' 2004 Showhauler -- VNL300, ISX, FreedomLine -- RVnerds.com -- where I've started to write about what I'm up to

Headlight and Fog Light Upgrades http://deepspacelighting.com

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In Albirda if your aux lites are not marked DOT or SAE or DRPEPPER on the lens you have to have them covered when on public roads.

And if you have a specific law that says that, then so be it. But Texas has no such law.

 

The vehicle is being operated on a highway though, while equipped with lights not permitted.

You can quote statute and technical jargon all you want but again it is not a light unless it is ON and being USED on a public roadway. The light you are speaking of isn't allowed to be USED on a public roadway. I can put flashing red, white and blue (patriotic, right?) lights all over my HDT and use them in an RV park all night long and as long as I turn them off before I hit the road, they are NOT illegal. Like RickW said, having emergency (red) lights and a siren on your vehicle isn't illegal....until you turn them ON (unless you are an emergency vehicle).

It's illegal to alter the emissions system (muffler, catalytic converter, etc) on your vehicle also,...but you can't be cited for it unless you USE it ON THE ROAD (just ask any farmer). You can not be issued a citation for inoperative headlights if they are not ON....duh. If they are turned on and one doesn't work and you are in the parking lot of your apartment complex or the mall or in your driveway, you can not be cited. Why? Because you aren't on a public roadway.

 

Come on, It is not rocket science, but I'm done here. I am sure you know more about lights and the law than I do. I'll shut up now.

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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