Get a CDL or not?

Jack Mayer · April 28, 2016

Who said anything about loadbearing (truck), Phil? I thought we were talking about a tractor pulling a trailer (an RV trailer, but still a trailer). I must have misunderstood the question. But, sure, put a smart on the tractor and it is now a truck.

The question I have, and have not researched, is the exemption for carhaulers. They are allowed a load on the tractor. So could a tractor carry a car and act as a carhauler.....I'll have to look into that.

VegasFlyer · April 28, 2016

Who said anything about loadbearing (truck), Phil? I thought we were talking about a tractor pulling a trailer (an RV trailer, but still a trailer). I must have misunderstood the question. But, sure, put a smart on the tractor and it is now a truck.

The question I have, and have not researched, is the exemption for carhaulers. They are allowed a load on the tractor. So could a tractor carry a car and act as a carhauler.....I'll have to look into that.

The "other white meat" in this one would be a "dromedary deck", but they are not allowed in all states, other than the commercial interstate route.

Jack Mayer · April 28, 2016

The "other white meat" in this one would be a "dromedary deck", but they are not allowed in all states, other than the commercial interstate route.

Now that would totally confuse the locals....I've seen some dromedaries recently on some commercial trucks - they had pretty much disappeared for a long time (at least I did not see any). I'll have to look at the regs to see what the "opportunity" is.

Of course, the issue with confusing a LEO is you get a ticket and have to fight it. That is to be avoided, if possible.

The bottom line eventually is going to be run pure commercial if you want to be longer then 65'. Run a pure tractor (maybe with a drom), and put the car inside the 53' box. Easy/peasey. Oh, and the cab extension on the tractor will have the storage with outside access. The tractor can be pretty much as big as you want. And it can have an aero body around the rear - just can't carry anything.

peety3 · April 28, 2016

When I hook up this weekend I will pull tape but fairly sure I will be over.

Glenn, I'm about to make a comment that is not directed at you specifically. It is truly intended to be a generic comment.

Folks, this is "basic" math here. Measure twice, cut once kind of stuff. Google your home state for length laws and this stuff has to come up easily. From there, it's two measurements: truck front bumper to fifth wheel hitch point, and trailer kingpin to rear bumper. Anyone caught overlength had all of the tools at their disposal to at least know and resolve the issues before ever hitching up.

The planning math is a little harder, admittedly. You've got to know truck front bumper to back of cab, back of cab to hitch point, trailer width, FRONT of trailer to kingpin (to determine swing radius), and guesstimate how much uphill tilt of the tractor you want to allow. But people here are willing to help, and with that data in mind it's more than feasible to develop a list of parameters that the truck and/or trailer has to meet for the combination to work. Obviously it gets more complex if you want to plan for multi-state travel if not the whole CONUS.

Years ago, I volunteered at a fire department that ordered a new KME pumper. They planned to rearrange the station to make it fit, and planned to knock out some "cinder" blocks to make a door taller, but still chose to wait for the truck to arrive before they did the work. As a result, it had to be parked at the PD for weeks (which meant the PD would visit and turn on the AC, radio, fans, lights, everything to 100%, so at 2am when you're half-awake and you turn on the battery master switch before climbing in, you need EMS to rescue you...). Even so, after knocking out three rows of blocks and getting a custom overhead door so it would roll up flush, somebody snapped a broom to smithereens when backing the truck into the station because it was put away wrong. A year later, I was volunteering at another station that measured the ladder truck bay before ever putting the truck up for bids and declared the maximum width, height, and length they would accept. Upon assembly completion, the manufacturer had to show that the truck met the dimension specs before they received final payment, and the initial payments were contractually refundable if the truck didn't measure up. (Granted, station policy was to open up the rear door, so if you accidentally backed over the parking bumper you wouldn't smash the door...) Which approach do you think is easier?

HD_RIDER · April 28, 2016

Well actually, that is not factual. The BAC and the point differential is not predicated on whether you have a Cdl or a regular DL, it is based on what you are doing at the time of the offense. If you have someone driving a commercial vehicle being pulled over and found to possibly under the influence of alcohol, the BAC level needed for conviction is lower than if they are driving a non commercial vehicle.

A clear example of this would be a driver gets pulled over for driving erratically in a Race Team truck with racing decals all over the truck and trailer and the driver, who holds a non commercial class A license, is found to be possibly under the influence of intoxicants. That driver would be held to the lower standard for blood alcohol IF a court determined that the driver was operating a commercial vehicle at the time of offense.

Do your research according to the state that you live in. An opinion that you won't be held to a higher standard can result in an eye opening lesson if you're stopped in Michigan, for example: http://www.agreatdefense.com/drunk_driving_and_cdl.htm

This link addresses this question directly.

Personally, I've held a CDL since their inception, before that a chauffeur's license. I've been told during traffic stops (excessive speed in a private vehicle) "You're a professional driver, you should know better". Fair or not, you are held to a higher standard by virtue of possessing a CDL.

Randyretired · April 28, 2016

I held a CDL until just recently and my experience is that it cuts both ways. Some LEO's will cut you some slack on minor things because they realize they can impact your living. Others think it is better to nail a professional for everything. I don't think it is much different than if you get pulled over in an HDT. I used to get a small insurance price break with the CDL but the medical (required in CO) was a pain so I gave it up.

Big5er · April 28, 2016

Who said anything about loadbearing (truck), Phil? I thought we were talking about a tractor pulling a trailer (an RV trailer, but still a trailer). I must have misunderstood the question. But, sure, put a smart on the tractor and it is now a truck.

The question I have, and have not researched, is the exemption for carhaulers. They are allowed a load on the tractor. So could a tractor carry a car and act as a carhauler.....I'll have to look into that.

Sorry Jack, I just assumed that we were talking about "our" kind of trucks.

And for the answer (in Texas) to your question about car haulers, check out the link to the .pdf in my post on page 1

GlennWest · April 28, 2016

Glenn, I'm about to make a comment that is not directed at you specifically. It is truly intended to be a generic comment.

Folks, this is "basic" math here. Measure twice, cut once kind of stuff. Google your home state for length laws and this stuff has to come up easily. From there, it's two measurements: truck front bumper to fifth wheel hitch point, and trailer kingpin to rear bumper. Anyone caught overlength had all of the tools at their disposal to at least know and resolve the issues before ever hitching up.

The planning math is a little harder, admittedly. You've got to know truck front bumper to back of cab, back of cab to hitch point, trailer width, FRONT of trailer to kingpin (to determine swing radius), and guesstimate how much uphill tilt of the tractor you want to allow. But people here are willing to help, and with that data in mind it's more than feasible to develop a list of parameters that the truck and/or trailer has to meet for the combination to work. Obviously it gets more complex if you want to plan for multi-state travel if not the whole CONUS.

Years ago, I volunteered at a fire department that ordered a new KME pumper. They planned to rearrange the station to make it fit, and planned to knock out some "cinder" blocks to make a door taller, but still chose to wait for the truck to arrive before they did the work. As a result, it had to be parked at the PD for weeks (which meant the PD would visit and turn on the AC, radio, fans, lights, everything to 100%, so at 2am when you're half-awake and you turn on the battery master switch before climbing in, you need EMS to rescue you...). Even so, after knocking out three rows of blocks and getting a custom overhead door so it would roll up flush, somebody snapped a broom to smithereens when backing the truck into the station because it was put away wrong. A year later, I was volunteering at another station that measured the ladder truck bay before ever putting the truck up for bids and declared the maximum width, height, and length they would accept. Upon assembly completion, the manufacturer had to show that the truck met the dimension specs before they received final payment, and the initial payments were contractually refundable if the truck didn't measure up. (Granted, station policy was to open up the rear door, so if you accidentally backed over the parking bumper you wouldn't smash the door...) Which approach do you think is easier?

66'. if add ladder about 8" more

Nuke-E · April 29, 2016

Who said anything about loadbearing (truck), Phil? I thought we were talking about a tractor pulling a trailer (an RV trailer, but still a trailer). I must have misunderstood the question. But, sure, put a smart on the tractor and it is now a truck.

The question I have, and have not researched, is the exemption for carhaulers. They are allowed a load on the tractor. So could a tractor carry a car and act as a carhauler.....I'll have to look into that.

I think there's a mile-wide swath of gray area when you get into that. A "load" generally refers to some sort of freight--be it a Wal-Mart trailer full of toilet paper or a hospitality trailer delivered for entertaining guests at an event. It doesn't include the "RV" part of the truck tractor--the "sleeper" can be a mile long, and you could put freight in there, but that's not what it's designed (or used) for. A truck tractor can have tool boxes mounted along the frame--and many do--without being designed to carry a "load". But a pick-up truck with a bed is designed to carry a load, which then means it isn't a truck tractor (at least as it appears to apply TX law, which is all that matters for the 59-footers). Do trucks have sturdy metal fenders while still being a truck tractor? Yep. Could you (physically) put a smart on top of those fenders? Yep. Conceivably, you could have a truck that's not designed to carry a load be a truck tractor at times and a straight truck at others.

With a stinger-steered (hitch behind axle) car (or boat) hauler, you'd be fine at up to 75' without a load or with a load of cars. With a load other than cars, it's no longer a car hauler (what about stuff in cars??). If the living quarters aren't a load (like the sleeper), everything's still OK, but if the living quarters are a load the length limit shrinks. I think my next RV will just be designed so that both the box on the truck and the box on the trailer float. <_<

Now that would totally confuse the locals....I've seen some dromedaries recently on some commercial trucks - they had pretty much disappeared for a long time (at least I did not see any). I'll have to look at the regs to see what the "opportunity" is.

Of course, the issue with confusing a LEO is you get a ticket and have to fight it. That is to be avoided, if possible.

The bottom line eventually is going to be run pure commercial if you want to be longer then 65'. Run a pure tractor (maybe with a drom), and put the car inside the 53' box. Easy/peasey. Oh, and the cab extension on the tractor will have the storage with outside access. The tractor can be pretty much as big as you want. And it can have an aero body around the rear - just can't carry anything.

Frankly, I'm not exactly convinced that getting a CDL, DOT authority, etc. makes any difference at all in what length would be legal. Most states have general length limits, with exceptions for commercial motor vehicles. It would be pretty easy to argue that you weren't engaged in interstate commerce, and enforce the state length limits anyway.

All of this is purely speculative--until someone gets cited, found guilty, and appeals to a court of record, no DMV brochures, letters from an inspector/officer, news articles, or opinions from a lawyer carry any weight. Personally, I take issue with size and weight limits varying based on where someone is headed (e.g. NC's motorsports length limit) or what's inside (e.g. car haulers allowed longer lengths when cars are cargo than with other cargo). You can't navigate a street corner any better because you have a load of Nissan Leafs instead of a case of Charmin. There should be a metric that looks at maneuverability, stability, and effect on highway infrastructure, not the mess of varying limits we have now (largely a result of trying to accommodate common equipment in use before federal regulations were enacted).

Phil D · April 29, 2016

You can't navigate a street corner any better because you have a load of Nissan Leafs instead of a case of Charmin.

For what it's worth, the longer lengths allowed for car haulers, in the jurisdictions where they exist, are based on the fact that a modern, stinger-style car hauler is far more maneuverable than a typical tractor/53' trailer combination. The tractor and trailer being much closer to equal lengths, allowing the rig to turn almost in the middle, makes a huge difference.

Nuke-E · April 29, 2016

For what it's worth, the longer lengths allowed for car haulers, in the jurisdictions where they exist, are based on the fact that a modern, stinger-style car hauler is far more maneuverable than a typical tractor/53' trailer combination. The tractor and trailer being much closer to equal lengths, allowing the rig to turn almost in the middle, makes a huge difference.

For sure. But a straight truck and stinger steered semitrailer would be able to do the same thing, as would a car hauler-type truck with boxes of stuff instead of cars, but the regulation only applies to car haulers when empty or hauling cars.

If I ever get to build the rig I want, both truck and trailer will be about the same length. I'd really like to be able to do 75' legally, but would have to find some way (like making it two "boats") to have it fall under one of those special categories.