What is happening in the truck market?

[GlennWest]

In our case brakes on camper less money to replace than HDT.

[Pappy Yokum]

No one has mentioned that 'most' commercial vehicles run with air brakes. Far more effective.

 

Re a comment above that the tractor does most of the braking. Well not always the case. I know a number of folks in the trucking industry. They all agree that many subcontractors crank up the brakes on the trailer to save the wear and tear on their tractor.

 

This is one of those subjects that can have so many variables that no one answer is correct. Common sense, yes it's not so common now days, is the key.

 

regards

 

 

Depending on the load (trailer) behind a semi - 3-stage jake can eliminate most of the need to use the service brakes on the tractor.

 

Of course there are times when service brake utilization is a "must".

 

.

[Pappy Yokum]

Job I was on 5 different men bought new trucks. Within a month they had removed tires/rims and installed 33ish with new rims. 20". I do believe it is a lot about marketing.

 

Glenn has it right - Tahoe and RayIN - also.

 

Different strokes (aftermarket rims/tires) for different folks.

Yeah - brakes have improved - but often (still) whoa doesn't match the go!

 

 

Wheels / tires:

Lots of the 'dubs' on everything from cars to SUVs to pickups are to be cool.

Kinda like mag or chrome rims "back when".

 

Then - as Glenn - observed.....if you have a 4 x 4 - - a "must have" is taller, wider tires (with or w/o "raised suspension") - whether you really need/use 'em - or whether it's just a macho thing.

 

BTW - depending on where you live, *NEW* "take-offs" for most of us who prefer "stock" tires can be a heck of a deal!

 

Lots of new car/truck dealers have 'em - as well as the aftermarket tire/wheel shops.

You just have to ask!

 

 

 

.

[bobsallyh]

Pappy and Glenn, I just wish when these folks buy a new truck and immediately head to the tire and wheel shop, I'd know when, because I would sure like to buy the takeoffs!

[D&J]

Pappy and Glenn, I just wish when these folks buy a new truck and immediately head to the tire and wheel shop, I'd know when, because I would sure like to buy the takeoffs!

Bought one a last month in Nevada after my inside dual ate a rock, was going to run it until we got to our home base but after looking at the date code it's newer than my existing truck tires and it looks brand new so I'm going to run it until I have to replace all 4 rear tires then it will become a spare, it was only $45 mounted and balanced.

 

Denny

[bobsallyh]

D&J, you lucky guy! And you just had to post the price. Dirty devil!

[Ray,IN]

Bought one a last month in Nevada after my inside dual ate a rock, was going to run it until we got to our home base but after looking at the date code it's newer than my existing truck tires and it looks brand new so I'm going to run it until I have to replace all 4 rear tires then it will become a spare, it was only $45 mounted and balanced.

 

Denny

 

Running dual tires of different diameters is a money waster: Mismatching dual tires, a sure way to kill two tires at once.

[Ray,IN]

Kirk, looks like you're onto something: CBS news June 6.

 

"Freightliner says it will lay off about 800 workers in North Carolina as part of an international reduction in workforce.

David Giroux with Freightliner's parent company, Daimler Trucks North America told local media outlets that about 600 workers are being laid off at the plant in Mount Holly on July 1.

The company will let about 200 workers go at a parts and logistics plant in Gastonia on June 24.

Giroux said the layoffs should be temporary.

Daimler expects a 15 percent drop in sales of medium- and heavy-duty trucks, which are made in Mount Holly."

[Kirk W]

Kirk, looks like you're onto something: CBS news June 6.

 

There are several reports of this story out there but all of them say pretty much the same thing. Not much detail as yet. Wonder how the folks at Cummins are doing? This story seems to indicate that they must be financially healthy.

[JimK]

Actually I look at this issue from a different point of view and think pickup trucks still have a long way to go. I will mention mine as an example. I have a Ram 2500 diesel. It weighs over 7800 without passengers or gear. The GVW is rated at 9900# leaving a cargo capacity of just 2100# including passengers. The actual useable cargo capacity is well under 20% of the GVW. I think that is sad and in serious need of redesign.

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

Actually I look at this issue from a different point of view and think pickup trucks still have a long way to go. I will mention mine as an example. I have a Ram 2500 diesel. It weighs over 7800 without passengers or gear. The GVW is rated at 9900# leaving a cargo capacity of just 2100# including passengers. The actual useable cargo capacity is well under 20% of the GVW. I think that is sad and in serious need of redesign.

In what regard? You want more load capacity, that is what a 3500/4500/5500 is for.

[JimK]

In what regard? You want more load capacity, that is what a 3500/4500/5500 is for.

And why shouldn't a heavy duty truck that weighs close to 8000 pounds not carry more than about 2000 pounds? Seems like something is wrong with the concept and the design.

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

The 2500 is designed to carry 1500-2000 lbs for cost. Heavier axles, brakes, and drivetrain could carry more but then the cost would be that of a 3500 or a 4500. The load is a function of design and cost.

 

You could have purchased a 4500 which would have about he same weight and a heavier load capacity but you didn't want to spend the extra money.

[Ray,IN]

Kirk you touched an important point. Freightliner's lay offs have a "trickle down" effect on many other businesses. The total workers affected will be substantially more than 800.

[Ray,IN]

Actually I look at this issue from a different point of view and think pickup trucks still have a long way to go. I will mention mine as an example. I have a Ram 2500 diesel. It weighs over 7800 without passengers or gear. The GVW is rated at 9900# leaving a cargo capacity of just 2100# including passengers. The actual useable cargo capacity is well under 20% of the GVW. I think that is sad and in serious need of redesign.

How much weight do you expect a 3/4 ton pickup to haul? They are, after all, limited by the weight rating of the 4 tires on the ground.

[JimK]

How much weight do you expect a 3/4 ton pickup to haul? They are, after all, limited by the weight rating of the 4 tires on the ground.

Being able to only carry about 20% of the total weight as cargo seems to indicate very poor design and poor efficiency. I would say 40-50% or more carry efficiency would be more reasonable. In fact with very minor upgrades that is entirely possible. The difference between a 2500 and 3500 truck is usually nothing more than better tires and a stiffer rear spring. For about 2% more cost, a truck should be able to easily carry twice the weight. With some intelligent design such as adjustable shocks and progressive springing, a truck should be able to have a decent ride with variable cargo weights. I don't think truck manufacturers deserve much praise for the current engineering and design.

[GlennWest]

I personally think it is elevated expectations to want to carry so much weight with a ldt. Heavy weights = mdt or hdt.

[skp51443]

Weight carrying / towing capability doesn't come free, many trade-offs involved in cost, ride, mileage, noise and a host of other factors. If you decide how much weight you need to move around you can pick your truck from a lightweight import, something in the 150 series up to the 550 in the pickup line, an MDT rated to carry / haul more or go all the way up to a HDT for the maximum capacity.

 

Trying to make a truck weight versus hauling ability comparison appears to work but glosses over many more important factors.

[sasha_j]

I'm late to this thread but the topic has been of interest to me for some time...

IMO, all big 3 tow ratings have been inflated for the last several years. No way would I use those towing guides in the high end ranges.

Personally I would not tow at the high end GCWR with a late model 1 ton. The main issue for me would be the 17" consumer grade tires and the limits 17" wheels put on disc brake sizing. Stepping up to a 450(0) or 550(0) series gets you 19.5" commercial grade rubber and much bigger/stronger brakes that come with 19.5" rims.

As an exercise, I just checked the towing tables for a late model RAM dually.

The Ram I spec'ed (crew cab 4x4, High Output Cummins option, 4.10 rear end):

GVWR: 14,000 lbs
GCWR: 39,100 lbs

to put the tow table above into perspective, we have a 1999 F450 4x2 7.3 Powerstroke, 4:88 rear end:

GVWR: 15,000 lbs
GCWR: 26,000 lbs

IMO, for that late model RAM, that is a massive gap between GVWR and GCWR. Tail wagging the dog IMO.

[Steve from SoCal]

There are some qualifiers in the below comparison but, with all systems go a class three truck could tow a 24K gooseneck. I know a guy that did just that for several years as a machinery dealer. Granted it was a trip a month or less and he was very adept at rigging and knew the combination well. He also never ran the west with long stretches of high speed and,high temps. He did pull a lot of the grades in the east however.

 

I am an HDT guy and I admit it IS overkill for many that have HDT's. If you are worried about a Ram 3500 at 39K GCVW consider this, a fuel tanker is one of the lightest tractors around hauling a max weight load on nearly every trip. So a nice day cab tank tractor weighs 15K and hauls 65K of fuel. That is by ratio far greater than the small trucks to trailer disparity. Yes the fuel truck has air brakes and is designed to haul that load day in day out. The ratings on the light duty trucks is perhaps embellished in regard to duty cycle. A dually sold to a contractor is used to tow stuff but, it is usually short trips. It is also possibly the guys daily driver as well so, lets say it has a 25% max duty cycle. A couple that buys the same dually to tow a 24K camper everywhere they go is at nearly 100% duty cycle.

 

This IMO is where so many folks miss the nuance of LDT/MDT/HDT. I know there are folks that have a million miles on a diesel dually that has pulled up 8% grades all its life and only needed oil and filter changes. There are also semi tractors with under a hundred thousand miles that eat engines. That is life, there are always exceptions to the rule. In general most light trucks are wrecked, rotted or, rebuilt by 300k miles or so. If you recall that 25% duty cycle then at 75K you will likely start incurring major repairs IF you heavy tow 100% or thereabouts. The MDT trucks are at the lower classes 4-5 about on par with the LDT's. Class 6-7-8 trucks are generally speced to million mile plus service lives. The different classes of trucks are built to different standards. What is OK for a Ford or Ram buyer would be unacceptable to Kenworth or Freightliner buyer.

 

Going back to the towing capacity and weight of the truck vs the trailer. The new pick ups have much better chassis and brakes than trucks of 10 years ago. Some have real engine brakes as well. The next real big leap for LDT towing will be trailer ABS. Would I want to tow my 22K Teton with a pick up, not really but, it has more to do with the high profile than the weight it self. I have towed my 17K forklift on a 5K trailer behind my Ram. It towed and stopped fine, low center of gravity and low profile above the cab.

 

One of the biggest issues for RVers is that campers tend to be high profile with the aerodynamics of a barn. That is something that no pick up can mitigate.

 

Steve

[Jack Mayer]

Steve, that is a very good assessment of the current state of affairs. IMO, it is spot on. People in "decision making" mode should take it to heart.