Camper issues......

[rpsinc]

You have a very good point oscarvan. Not only would a new solid quality RV company have difficulties starting up, look what happened to many of the older quality manufacturers that are no longer making RVs......Teton, King of the Road, Carriage, NuWa HitchHikers, Excel, Travel Supreme, and recently DRV was sold to Thor's Heartland division. I think that the Elkhart manufacturers priced these older higher quality companies right out of business. Greg

And WE are the ones providing the money for them to be able to buy companies out or expand their already feable quality coaches. WE have the power to change that, but it wont come overnight, although with patience, we can diligently invest our dollars into companies that do it BETTER, because there is none that do it RIGHT.

This issue is a BIG part of the reason why I am selling my newer coach and bought a robust older coach and am remodeling it. Not just cosmetics, though, but inspecting every part I can, and because I believe in the spirit of ingenuity, I bought a well built Newmar 5er with the unique 8 tire suspension. Then its all about checking it all over and doing what I can to put it into like new condition.

But, that being said, we can only do so much. Although, we must not forget about the power that we have as consumers. And we must realize that manufacturers will respond to us if we will spend our dollars to a particular price point for products built with the greatest margins for profit in mind, instead of customer satifaction.

We like shiny new things that have that new car smell. That is easy to accomplish as they have learned and we have bought, only to discover that its T-50 staples and caulking doing the job of screws and glue. They are working the odds that most people wont take it back to the factory and tell them that their product has failed and it needs to be fixed RIGHT. Most people will dump it as a trade-in, leaving it for some other poor consumer to buy it and then suffer the results of our own lack of initiative to hold the Thor and Forest Rivers' of the country, accountable.

Perhaps we should be considering "shame on us" for our part in this.

 

oscarvan- congrats on your williingness to challenge Heartland and get some results. I hope it works out for you in the long run.

[Big Greg]

Yup, if the average RV buyer goes for the glitz of a $50K unit and not the better quality of a $100K unit......we get what we pay for. We as consumers are helping manufacturers doing this to ourselves.

Have you ever watched a TV program (can't remember the name of the program) about folks looking at a MH, 5W and TT? It's always a young couple or family and the sales person takes them through one of each of the 3 RV types and all the questions and interest is in the layout, price and size and storage of the 3 types of RVs. They compare the 3 RV types and once decided on which type never look and more units of that type RV. Never do they ask, or the salesperson mention, about suspension systems, frames, insulation, etc.

I suppose that if you are a young family planning to RV locally 3 or 4 weeks a year price is the major factor, not long term quality.

I will continue to invest in our 9 year old HitchHiker and never consider swapping it for the smell of a brand new RV. Greg

[oscarvan]

 

 

oscarvan- congrats on your williingness to challenge Heartland and get some results. I hope it works out for you in the long run.

 

They fixed the issue that was a potential liability. They went above and beyond to try and placate me re the other issues, without addressing what I think is the real problem, so I still have a fundamental disagreement with them about the fact that these units are NOT built to last, in fact they are built to last a certain amount of time. They are very good at what they do. Let's leave it at that.

[rpsinc]

The unfortunate part of all of this, is that you said So, Heartland stood behind this part of their product. I did however during our conversations pick up on the fact that Lippert, who made the frame, may be eating this and paying Heartland to open/close it up. It is very likely that Lippert built that frame to the specs provided by the coach builder, yet Heartland is pointing their finger at Lippert, and likely Lippert will point their finger at Heartland, and the consumer is the fall guy. NO, the climate MUST change in domestic manufacturing, to the end point of, providing products that consumers are satisfied with. Albeit, we must also become more educated with the facts that a price point is the driving factor, so we do get what we pay for. And when we look at the stocks, we must also realize that if we want to have our stocks perform to the level that we want, we as shareholders, also must understand, that inadvertently, we are participating in the push to get manufacturers to deliver certain profit numbers to us, and as such as contributing to our own problem. We must learn to invest in what we want as a final product, that is to return this country to a manufacturer of our own products, with competitive wages and sold at fair prices for a reasonable return.

How can we expect quality products from companies like Lippert that hire welders, a skilled trade, who hire them for $10-$12/HR? That is an unrealistic ideal to deliver quality oriented products. Oscarvan got his issue corrected, but not completely and not objectively. But it should not have been a delivered product! QC should have seen that and rejected it.

As to the show with people looking at RVs and deciding from the 3 they are shown, I watch it, and I have yet to hear any of them ask about drive trains, brakes, suspension, frames, or whats BEHIND the walls. We have the ability to do that, so we MUST DO THAT. We must become better trained in our consumer skill. Lets not settle for what manufacturers are willing to put in front of us, we have options. We can say NO!

[oscarvan]

As to the show with people looking at RVs and deciding from the 3 they are shown, I watch it, and I have yet to hear any of them ask about drive trains, brakes, suspension, frames, or whats BEHIND the walls. We have the ability to do that, so we MUST DO THAT. We must become better trained in our consumer skill.

 

Very very true. Unfortunately most people cannot conceive the fact that modern RV's are built to be scrapped in ten years. They remember the 30 year old camper or Winnie in the back yard that, although dirty and sad, was not totally returned to the food chain yet.

 

The manufacturers have changed the rules, and they didn't tell anyone. (Yeah, page 85 of the owners manual, paragraph 6)

 

The very fact that the product you are looking at at an RV show is guilty of being substandard until proven innocent is a sad state of affairs.